Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Rogue in arenaFollow

#1 Apr 01 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
So I am working on my rogue right now, got him up to level 83. I am levelling him as muti so I can get used to the spec for doing PVE with it at the cap.

I am also planning on doing some arena when I get to 85. i will be doing 3v3 with a resto druid and a hunter. Am I going to be speccing Sub or would another spec work best with this comp?

Also, what do I use as my CP generator if I do spec sub, Hemo or Backstab?
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#2 Apr 01 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
25,534 posts
This wqould be my guess. I've probably overlooked something though.
And read the spec, your second question will answer itself.
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#3 Apr 03 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
This wqould be my guess. I've probably overlooked something though.
And read the spec, your second question will answer itself.

Oh god no, not combat.

You're looking at this this or this spec, using BS as your main combo point generator.

There are a lot of other variations, and your glyphs can vary greatly. The glyphs and spec I used is this.

You can remove Imp Recup if you won't ever get focused, but a lot of the time teams will focus rogues to get them to pop cooldowns, so...

Edit: if you're running DHR, you're going to need to peel a lot for your hunter unless your hunter is completely pro. You may want to consider the Crippling Poison major glyph, or else keep Shiv in a spot you can get to it easily. I doubt you'll get focused a lot in the comp, so I probably wouldn't run Quickening, though I'd keep Imp Recup (more healing and damage reduction) to help your druid.

Also, watch this video. More rogues need to know how to peel, since 99% suck at it.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2011 7:48pm by Theophany
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#4 Apr 04 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
This wqould be my guess. I've probably overlooked something though.
And read the spec, your second question will answer itself.

Oh god no, not combat.

You're looking at this this or this spec, using BS as your main combo point generator.

There are a lot of other variations, and your glyphs can vary greatly. The glyphs and spec I used is this.

You can remove Imp Recup if you won't ever get focused, but a lot of the time teams will focus rogues to get them to pop cooldowns, so...

Edit: if you're running DHR, you're going to need to peel a lot for your hunter unless your hunter is completely pro. You may want to consider the Crippling Poison major glyph, or else keep Shiv in a spot you can get to it easily. I doubt you'll get focused a lot in the comp, so I probably wouldn't run Quickening, though I'd keep Imp Recup (more healing and damage reduction) to help your druid.

Also, watch this video. More rogues need to know how to peel, since 99% suck at it.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2011 7:48pm by Theophany


Ok, I understood a lot of what you said, but some of it went completely over my head.

I am running DHR, as I stated. My druid is completely pro but I'm not real sure how to judge our hunter. Let's assume the hunter is decent but not prog. What spec do you recommend, Theo? Also gonna need to know about glyphs. i realize that damage isn't my job in 3s, my job is to help keep people off the druid druid so he can keep the hunter alive to kill people and to help shut down the other team's healer.

I kind of know how to peel, although chances are like everything else PVP related I'll need some practice in it. As far as Shiv, it's keybound in a very convenient place, so if that will allow me to use a different glyph by all means tell me which one.

Looks like I'll be spending some money respeccing and buying glyphs tonight. Sheesh, there goes another $2k on PVE and PVP glyphs.

Edit: Did some BGs over the weekend. The problem I'm having is, unless the enemy is stunned it's almost impossible for me to get a Backstab off. I'm not a keyboard turner and I know how to strafe, but it just seems like I have to end up using Hemo more than BS to build CPs. This isn't such a big deal in BGs because HAT goes off every ICD, but I can't imagine this happening in 3v3. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just an issue of 2 years without doing any rogue PVP and I need to get back into practice?

Edited, Apr 4th 2011 11:54am by Bigdaddyjug
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#5 Apr 04 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
25,534 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Oh god no, not combat.

You're looking at this this or this spec, using BS as your main combo point generator.

There are a lot of other variations, and your glyphs can vary greatly. The glyphs and spec I used is this.
I stand corrected, I was looking at imp. sprint and how good that would be, but comparing the specs you linked to mine I can see why I'm wrong. I've probably been losing a lot of damage.
Thanks Smiley: grin

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Ok, I understood a lot of what you said, but some of it went completely over my head.

I am running DHR, as I stated. My druid is completely pro but I'm not real sure how to judge our hunter. Let's assume the hunter is decent but not prog. What spec do you recommend, Theo? Also gonna need to know about glyphs. i realize that damage isn't my job in 3s, my job is to help keep people off the druid so he can keep the hunter alive to kill people and to help shut down the other team's healer.
Peel for the hunter too, a hunter who can unleash his damage is scary, a hunter who gets stuck in melee is hardly more than a training dummy.


Quote:
Edit: Did some BGs over the weekend. The problem I'm having is, unless the enemy is stunned it's almost impossible for me to get a Backstab off. I'm not a keyboard turner and I know how to strafe, but it just seems like I have to end up using Hemo more than BS to build CPs. This isn't such a big deal in BGs because HAT goes off every ICD, but I can't imagine this happening in 3v3. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just an issue of 2 years without doing any rogue PVP and I need to get back into practice?
Mostly just practice I guess, do lots of BG's and soon enough you'll be running circles around the weaker players while typing /lol and /tickle nonstop.

I think your main difficulty in playing HDR is coordinating CC's. With traps, scatter, cyclone, blind, gouge, roots, pin, stuns and smoke bomb you have a crapload of CC options and using them well equals winning.
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#6 Apr 04 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
I just dinged 85 last night so we haven't done any arena matches yet. I'm not too worried about coordination because the hunter and druid will be playing in the same room and I've always been a very good reactive player. I'll have no problem seeing what my teammates are doing and knowing what I should be doing.

I guess I'll just keep doing BGs to get more practice. I'm also still getting used to the whole Smoke Bomb > Shadow Dance thing. I don't quite know yet when to use Smoke Bomb.

Edited, Apr 4th 2011 2:15pm by Bigdaddyjug
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#7 Apr 04 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
25,534 posts
Throwing them on a mage iceblocking is always a good idea, especially since you can't dispel iceblock.
____________________________
Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#8 Apr 04 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Throwing them on a mage iceblocking is always a good idea, especially since you can't dispel iceblock.


Wait, what?

Smoke Bomb an Ice Block? How does that help?

Edited, Apr 4th 2011 4:12pm by Bigdaddyjug
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#9 Apr 04 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
This wqould be my guess. I've probably overlooked something though.
And read the spec, your second question will answer itself.

Oh god no, not combat.

You're looking at this this or this spec, using BS as your main combo point generator.

There are a lot of other variations, and your glyphs can vary greatly. The glyphs and spec I used is this.

You can remove Imp Recup if you won't ever get focused, but a lot of the time teams will focus rogues to get them to pop cooldowns, so...

Edit: if you're running DHR, you're going to need to peel a lot for your hunter unless your hunter is completely pro. You may want to consider the Crippling Poison major glyph, or else keep Shiv in a spot you can get to it easily. I doubt you'll get focused a lot in the comp, so I probably wouldn't run Quickening, though I'd keep Imp Recup (more healing and damage reduction) to help your druid.

Also, watch this video. More rogues need to know how to peel, since 99% suck at it.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2011 7:48pm by Theophany


Ok, I understood a lot of what you said, but some of it went completely over my head.

I am running DHR, as I stated. My druid is completely pro but I'm not real sure how to judge our hunter. Let's assume the hunter is decent but not prog. What spec do you recommend, Theo? Also gonna need to know about glyphs. i realize that damage isn't my job in 3s, my job is to help keep people off the druid druid so he can keep the hunter alive to kill people and to help shut down the other team's healer.

I kind of know how to peel, although chances are like everything else PVP related I'll need some practice in it. As far as Shiv, it's keybound in a very convenient place, so if that will allow me to use a different glyph by all means tell me which one.

Looks like I'll be spending some money respeccing and buying glyphs tonight. Sheesh, there goes another $2k on PVE and PVP glyphs.

Edit: Did some BGs over the weekend. The problem I'm having is, unless the enemy is stunned it's almost impossible for me to get a Backstab off. I'm not a keyboard turner and I know how to strafe, but it just seems like I have to end up using Hemo more than BS to build CPs. This isn't such a big deal in BGs because HAT goes off every ICD, but I can't imagine this happening in 3v3. Am I doing something wrong, or is it just an issue of 2 years without doing any rogue PVP and I need to get back into practice?

Edited, Apr 4th 2011 11:54am by Bigdaddyjug

I really suggest running the spec and glyphs I have in the last link I posted.

You won't be peeling for your druid very much until you get into the 2200s if your druid is good at resto, far more often you'll be peeling for your hunter, as they lack the kind of outs that a druid has (you may have to peel if your druid is in roots, i.e. about to get shattered by a mage).

You'll find that in arena, it's much easier to burn through your energy and get BSs in, as most of the time melee will be going for your hunter or your druid. That said, try to always be behind someone. It's not too hard once you get used to it.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Throwing them on a mage iceblocking is always a good idea, especially since you can't dispel iceblock.


Wait, what?

Smoke Bomb an Ice Block? How does that help?

Edited, Apr 4th 2011 4:12pm by Bigdaddyjug

Smoke Bomb affects EVERYONE inside the SB. Can't target into or out of it, meaning that they can't get healed. There's also currently a bug (maybe they've fixed it) where rogue openers don't work in a SB, so if the other team has a rogue and they're going to open on you, you can toss a SB and they'll just pop out of stealth without using their opener.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#10 Apr 04 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
Ok, sweet.

I didn't even think about the no targetting thing affecting the other characters in the Smoke Bomb, that is totally freaking awesome.

I plan on running the spec/glyphs you linked for me. I'm going to respec tonight.

Any suggestions on how to practice peeling?
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#11 Apr 04 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Ok, sweet.

I didn't even think about the no targetting thing affecting the other characters in the Smoke Bomb, that is totally freaking awesome.

I plan on running the spec/glyphs you linked for me. I'm going to respec tonight.

Any suggestions on how to practice peeling?

Peeling really isn't that hard, but the best way to practice is to do BGs/TB with a healer and when melee go for your healer, use your peels and see how long you both can survive.

Feyras and I did that all the time, and it was great fun. Also, I might suggest that you change the Sprint glyph to a Prep glyph, so you can Smoke Bomb/Dismantle twice in a short time (especially useful in arena).
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#12 Apr 05 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
Will do on the Sprint > Prep glyph.

Speaking of glyphs, the prices are ridiculous. I bought my PVE and PVP glyphs last night, 14 glyphs total (same minor for PVE/PVP and I already had Rupture), and it cost me about 1000g.

I seriously need to consider if I want to drop mining/skinning on my rogue and take up herbalism and Inscription.
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#13 Apr 05 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Will do on the Sprint > Prep glyph.

Speaking of glyphs, the prices are ridiculous. I bought my PVE and PVP glyphs last night, 14 glyphs total (same minor for PVE/PVP and I already had Rupture), and it cost me about 1000g.

I seriously need to consider if I want to drop mining/skinning on my rogue and take up herbalism and Inscription.

Eh, it's really not that much when you consider that you never have to buy them again.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#14 Apr 06 2011 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Will do on the Sprint > Prep glyph.

Speaking of glyphs, the prices are ridiculous. I bought my PVE and PVP glyphs last night, 14 glyphs total (same minor for PVE/PVP and I already had Rupture), and it cost me about 1000g.

I seriously need to consider if I want to drop mining/skinning on my rogue and take up herbalism and Inscription.

Eh, it's really not that much when you consider that you never have to buy them again.


Until they make more changes to the spec next xpac and the desired glyphs chaneg and I need to buy new ones.

I was thinking more along the lines of making the rogue a scribe to be able to supply glyphs to all of my alts as i level them up.

9 glyphs per spec, 2 specs per character, minor glpyhs usually the same between specs means 15 glyphs per character.

That's 150 glyphs altogether at an average price of about 50g, maybe more. So I can PL herbalism and probably get enough herbs to PL Inscription and save myself 7500g. And it's not like mining makes that much more money than herbalism.
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
#15 Apr 07 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
***
1,609 posts
Inscription makes a truckload of gold, but the bonuses aren't great for pvp. I have herb/scribing on an alt (tauren) DK with On a Pale Horse so he can spend half an hour a week zooming around the river in uldum and making literally thousands of gold selling glyphs for 150G+ each.

It took me about a fortnight of BGs to get used to Sub at 85 honestly, it can be...interesting to deal with positional requirements. And getting used to shadowstep is hard even when you bind it you'll run through people a lot of lose your sense of direction. A few things to consider:

In BGs you will often open with garrote because you'll find people dismounted fairly often (already engaged in combat). In arena matches, the person you sap is often not the guy you'll be opening on. So you almost always have to cheap shot just to get your damage in cause they'll be mounted and running around. If you do garrote at some point, shiv straight after to apply crippling, it makes the positional requirement a breeze to deal with.

Speaking of which, poisons are MH wound/mind numbing, OH Crippling, thrown crippling for fan of snare. I almost exclusively use mind-numbing, it is amazing because chances are you'll be on a caster at some point in the match and that debuff is incredibly noticable. It also slows hunter cobra and steady shot by 30% and as a bonus helps make your kicks easier. Utterly overpowered in every way, and you should be abusing it.

I spec and glyph like this. Yeah, it's super defensive but i pretty much only do 2v2 double dps. You should probably drop cheat death for 2/2nightstalker or 3/3 HaT and 2 more points in assassination for 3/3 puncturing wounds.

Always hemo once after opening to get the +10% damage bonus from bleeds (not required with a garrots opener obviously). How you open depends on the situation. If you're in a really really good one (kill target in a bad position far from a pillar, at least one person cced) and you think you can get a kill, you can open with garrote > shiv and a 5pt kidney shot then drop smokebomb (or 5pt evis if you opened with cheap shot). Otherwise get recup up and running asap.

Always always get crippling up, not just to peel off your hunter. If you catch someone in the middle of nagrand with a 70% snare and your hunter on them they are in seriously deep sh*t.



____________________________
Ret Paladin: Rosencrantz

Subtlety Rogue: Tenshi
#16 Apr 07 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
***
1,609 posts
Oh and probably the tip that helped me the most as a rogue: don't spam abilities constantly or you'll be running on fumes when you need it most. You mentioned rogue damage is kinda bad, that's just sustained. Sub has great burst so you can take advantage and only use energy in "kill" mode rather than in "setup" mode. You do most of your damage coming out of stealth, and when using shadowdance.

The best use of your energy is midmatch, or after a switch (this is why you take glyph of blind). Maybe you've been sitting on one target and it's going nowhere. Your team can decide to switch. Prepare for this by pooling energy, spending it just to get 5 cps. Then redirect to the new kill target, blind the old one of the healer kidney shot instantly (try to get someone who has used their trinket) and shadowdance and maybe smokebomb. You'll now pump 5 or 6 auto-crit ambushes into someone for obscene damage and if you co-ordinated well with your hunter they have a full focus bar and have done something similar. Boom, huge damage.
____________________________
Ret Paladin: Rosencrantz

Subtlety Rogue: Tenshi
#17 Apr 07 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
Oh and probably the tip that helped me the most as a rogue: don't spam abilities constantly or you'll be running on fumes when you need it most. You mentioned rogue damage is kinda bad, that's just sustained. Sub has great burst so you can take advantage and only use energy in "kill" mode rather than in "setup" mode. You do most of your damage coming out of stealth, and when using shadowdance.

The best use of your energy is midmatch, or after a switch (this is why you take glyph of blind). Maybe you've been sitting on one target and it's going nowhere. Your team can decide to switch. Prepare for this by pooling energy, spending it just to get 5 cps. Then redirect to the new kill target, blind the old one of the healer kidney shot instantly (try to get someone who has used their trinket) and shadowdance and maybe smokebomb. You'll now pump 5 or 6 auto-crit ambushes into someone for obscene damage and if you co-ordinated well with your hunter they have a full focus bar and have done something similar. Boom, huge damage.

Yeah, what you just described is the way you run pretty much every double DPS as a sub rogue; have you and your partner pressure the healer and get their DPS to blow their trinket, then switch with 5 CP: blind healer > redirect > KS > ShD > ambushes > smoke bomb > dead.

If you need to, vanish focus ShS to the healer and garrote and sit on them to kick any big heals while your partner finishes off their partner.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#18 Apr 08 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
***
2,790 posts
I'm only going to be doing 3v3 for now, although I'm considering double rogue 2s if that's at all viable.

I've been practicing peeling in BGs so far. One way I practice is to ask in BG chat if any healer wants a personal bodyguard and then just stick to them the whole match. Their goal is to keep me alive and my goal is to keep them alive. I've been doing pretty good so far like this including a 0 death Battle for Gilneas last night.

The other way I've been practicing is to attach myself to the flag carrier in WSG and Twin Peaks. Had a resto druid FC in Twin Peaks the other day and managed to fend off an attack from a rogue and feral druid pair and hold them off long enough for our team to go get our flag back.
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Midgarsormr realm
Eartha Kitty 30 BRD/12 MNK
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 38 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (38)