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RNG and Combustion are Killing me...Follow

#1 Mar 23 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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I'm wearing roughly 1/2 epics (Crafted, Valor, Raid, Tier) and 1/2 Heroic blues. I'm stacking INT, Hit-Cap, Then Haste/Crit about roughly equal. I have no "healer" (read spirit gear) and I have no PVP gear - so no "Wasted" itemization.

My rotation is Orb, scorch (For debuff), LB , FB until procs for Pyro! - If the debuff is up I spam FB until procs always trying to replace LB after it clears. On the start of some fights, I will force cast Pyro in the hope of hitting a large crit, getting the Ignite, dropping on a LB.

IF I get a big crit early and my Combustion Helper shows an indicated Combustion of 10k+ I will Combust. If it does not get a big crit, I feel like haveing the scorch/pyro dubuff up is a decent way to at least start things.

I've noticed on several fights that I have not been able to get a big enough crit to reasonably use combustion. (If your indicated combustion is like 5-6k, that's not going to really be a great use of a 2m CD.) However, there comes a point of diminishing returns.... If you wait all fight to get off one huge Combust at 20k (indicated) but you wasted 6-7 minutes to do it - you have missed 3 combustions....


Is anyone else frustrated with the RNG?



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#2 Mar 23 2011 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I probably should know this, but what does RNG stand for?
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#3 Mar 23 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Random Number Generator....


It basically means stuff that is unable to be controlled by the player. You can have 30% chance to crit, but that means you have a 70% chance to do something other than crit.

As Fire Spec, you rely on crit to create Ignites. Big ignites = big possible Combustions. But the optimal combination is big ignites + Haste buff (Heroism/Bloodlust) + "Heart is exposed" Phase... etc....

Some of this can be planned for - (Such as don't burn you Heroism early) but a lot of it relies on the RNG falling in your favor.

I need two crits in a row to proc Hotstreak. Or I have to hard-cast Pyro (6 second DPS killing cast). If I don't get those crits - and then Pyro! doesn't crit... My combustion is weak and I have to wait 2 minutes to use it again (If i choose to go with the weak Combust)

It's annoying.
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#4 Mar 23 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't like Fire for that exact reason.

I have heard, though, that most practical applications go for the Use-on-CD approach which is to say once it's reasonable at all, burn it. It sucks because you'll undoubtably get a more powerful one right after, but thems the breaks. Waiting for the big one with a lot of DPS specs right now isn't the way to go.

I think, though, that Combustion should be a bit less powerful and be on a MUCH shorter CD. As it stands now, you're looking at 3 per raid boss, 2 per heroic boss, and 1 every 3-4 heroic pulls. Garbage. At least Arcane's CDs are at 90 seconds.
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#5 Mar 23 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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I think, though, that Combustion should be a bit less powerful and be on a MUCH shorter CD. As it stands now, you're looking at 3 per raid boss, 2 per heroic boss, and 1 every 3-4 heroic pulls. Garbage. At least Arcane's CDs are at 90 seconds.


This is my thought too.

Nerf the damage. Buff the CD.


There have been so many times that the heroic boss will go into their "Completely Immune" phase or Magmaw’s Exposed Head just won’t eat a big crit… When burning a 2min CD is just painful.

At other times (Halfus + Drakes) you can do completely stupid damage for nothing more than disobeying the raid leader and staying on the boss (Only to fish for Impact Procs on the Drake Pack) and spread a massive combustion to ½ the room.

I’m told at the highest level, that fire is working as intended, but it’s too spiky at the “normal level”…
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#6 Mar 23 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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I can imagine this being the case since Crit numbers will go back up to acceptable levels. As is, Arcane and Frost seem to have more boosts to crit while needing it the least, while Fire is completely dependent on it yet has a bit more trouble finding it.
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#7 Mar 24 2011 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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This might be me dreaming a bit, but I would like to see them change Shatter to targets that are snared or slowed similar to Torment the Weak. I feel like that would make it a lot easier for Fire, but... my mage is only 35 and Arcane specced so I might just be talking gibberish.
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#8 Mar 25 2011 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Changing shatter like that would make frost powerful, so blizzard won't dare do it.
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#9 Mar 25 2011 at 11:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, when is something NOT snared by Frost?

And besides, you cannot shatter something unless its frozen solid, right? I think all the trees need a new toy or 2, deep, because with this latest expansion it feels like we have LESS to work with now than before. Then again, Circle of Frost is really cool regardless of spec.
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#10 Apr 20 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey guys - havent been on in awhile .....and yes this is my fav topic lol.


I think I have figured fire out finally - so heare goes from an ex fire noob ( its actually fun)

1) get the add on combustion helper ( or soemthing like that)

2) my rotation - not perfect by any measure -

* LB
* Flame orb
* than I use pyro ( I kno I kno - slow cast)
* than FB til ignite and use combustion
* by then eveything is usually going off

I know its not perfect but its been working pretty good - my dps and dam is really really good..

Actually all the advice from older posts helped me...

Anyway - happy to chat with every1

cya
Vyn
#11 Apr 22 2011 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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I quit in January but I'm pretty sure any raiding mage will tell you wasting the time to cast Pyro is a no-no.
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#12 Apr 22 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually I do start up most fights with Pyro. It has a good chance of starting off immediately with a powerful Combustion: Pyroblast's DoT, Ignite, 5% crit Debuff, and I have time to LBomb before the missile reaches the monster. I'd say literally 1/3 of the time I'm already set with a nasty Combustion within 3 seconds of engagement.

Generally speaking, you wouldn't want to cast Pyroblast after that, but theoretically if you somehow lose the crit debuff and you really don't need to move, it's potentially not a bad idea to fire off a Pyro instead of a scorch.

*edit*

Figure I'd point out here that I do try to Wind up Pyro before engagement even has officially started. On certain fights, I'll even do MI then Pyro if I'm worried about threat from a bunch of crits and DoTs going off. Winding up that Pyro early though helps cut back the effective cast time of Pyro.

As a general rule, don't start fights with instant casts unless you have a **** good reason for it or you're already busy moving.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 3:34pm by tzsjynx
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#13 Apr 23 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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OMG good see Anobix ! I used to copy your build all the time lol !!! U were my role model lol .!

I know- I am jus figuring out this as I go...not getting much help....

The patch might bring me back to arc - boring - but big crits...


As always thanks every1

Vyn
#14 Apr 28 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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tzsjynx wrote:
Actually I do start up most fights with Pyro. It has a good chance of starting off immediately with a powerful Combustion: Pyroblast's DoT, Ignite, 5% crit Debuff, and I have time to LBomb before the missile reaches the monster. I'd say literally 1/3 of the time I'm already set with a nasty Combustion within 3 seconds of engagement.

Generally speaking, you wouldn't want to cast Pyroblast after that, but theoretically if you somehow lose the crit debuff and you really don't need to move, it's potentially not a bad idea to fire off a Pyro instead of a scorch.

*edit*

Figure I'd point out here that I do try to Wind up Pyro before engagement even has officially started. On certain fights, I'll even do MI then Pyro if I'm worried about threat from a bunch of crits and DoTs going off. Winding up that Pyro early though helps cut back the effective cast time of Pyro.

As a general rule, don't start fights with instant casts unless you have a **** good reason for it or you're already busy moving.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 3:34pm by tzsjynx


I can't disagree with that reasoning, that it is worth pre-casting for a pull, but it isn't worth the (5?) second cast time in the middle of a fight unless you have some huge buff (ie 50% cast time buff) that would put you under the GCD if you were casting fireballs. I miss that buff in Black Temple on RoS!
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#15 Apr 28 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Anobix wrote:
I miss that buff in Black Temple on RoS!
That was probably the most fun buff in the game that doesn't involve spell stealing.

Edit: Actually, I was thinking of a different buff. That one totally involved spell stealing. Smiley: laugh

Edited, May 7th 2011 12:26am by Poldaran
#16 May 06 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah the confusion is in the cast time. Pyroblast is a 3.5 second cast now. Essentially it is the cast time of a Scorch and a Fireball. Also, with the 2-set Tier bonus + Glyph, the crit chance on Pyroblast is literally one of the best out there, and it does indeed have the ability to proc 'Pyroblast!'.

Then again, I am not saying that using Pyroblast is an optimum choice by any stretch of the imagination, simply that - especially if your Combustion is ready to go AND Critical Mass has fallen off the target - it's not a horrible idea either. It's all circumstantial.
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