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Tanking and MasteryFollow

#1 Mar 03 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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So, my guild leader came across this site Ask Mr. Robot which optimizes gear and gives you a best in slot list. Well, when I optimize my tanking gear, it suggests that I use, almost exclusively, Mastery gems rather than stamina gems. I know that Mastery rocks, and I try to stack it on my gear as much as I can, but is it really better to forgo stamina for Mastery when gemming as well? Kinda want another opinion before I take those results as gospel and spend a bunch of money to reforge/regem all my gear. Thanks :D
#2 Mar 04 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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When you have Best-in-Slot and trying to min/max, a lot of things change. This whole bit will depend mostly on your gear level. It's quite possible that even with a lower health pool you will net more Physical Survivability through Mastery, one must remember all the other benefits that Stamina grants as well as the non-physical damage a tank encounters.

Hit points are a much more versatile survivability buff, but there is a tipping point at which it becomes much less survivability versus physical. I would actually venture to guess this is even the case with Parry and Dodge. I would recommend, however, that you are comfortable with your health pool before venturing down Mastery Stack Lane.

If you are (I can't see your gear but your Ret gear is up there), then I'd say Mr. Robot has a valid point.
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#3 Mar 04 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Remember that health is great, but comes with a cost--your healers need to use mana to supplement survivability gained from health. In a world where they're not spamming their strongest, fastest heals without a care anymore, that's an issue. Now, mitigation and avoidance are important again.

That's not to say you can forget Stam, just that we aren't in Wrath anymore--you can't just stack stam.

Like tzs says, you want to get a comfortable health pool before you focus on anything else (because you still want to give your healers time to react), but mastery is a legitimate option at that point.

But a quick look on tankspot shows the general consensus is:

Reforge to mastery, or avoidance if you can't do that.
Gem for mastery, or a mastery/stam blend.
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#4 Mar 04 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
Like tzs says, you want to get a comfortable health pool before you focus on anything else (because you still want to give your healers time to react), but mastery is a legitimate option at that point.

But a quick look on tankspot shows the general consensus is:

Reforge to mastery, or avoidance if you can't do that.
Gem for mastery, or a mastery/stam blend.

That's pretty much the gospel of maintankadin too, with some people even going so far as to ignore any means of additional stamina (reforging, gems, chants, and even trinkets) in favor of mastery when possible and a dodge/parry blend when not.

It's really not new theorycraft, but old (school) - the concept is that unblocked hits in Cataclysm are basically what crushing blows were in BC. So you accept a smaller health pool in order to maximize your combat table coverage, so you take fewer spikes. This makes you more consistently healable and in less danger of a string of bad RNG.
#5 Mar 04 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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I never really subscribed to the "stack stam, forget everything else" mentality that Wrath tanks had. I was still in the BC mode of trying to get to the "magic number", and that served me quite well for the amount of content I was able to run. That said, it's still tough to get out of the mindset that stam gems are king, lol. I did some poking around on those other sites you guys mentioned after making this post, and had come to basically the same conclusions.

In my current tanking setup I sit, raid buffed, around 171k health. I'm not on my home computer, so I can't go check my other stats atm. One thing I can do would be to ask my healers whether they think I'm in a good place health wise and should go ahead and start working more on my mastery, or if my health pool is still a little small for them. It hasn't been, from what I can see, a big deal, but since we are just getting underway in raid progression, I do want to try and make things as easy for them as possible.

Thanks for your input, and I will try to remember to log out in my tank setup tonight in case anyone may have something else to add after seeing it :)
#6 Mar 05 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Not bad not bad (looking at your gear)!

I would say you're quite ready for Mastery Stack, however you definitely need to upgrade that tricket.

Both BoT and BWD drop nice tanking trinkets, and so honestly either one of them will provide you with a great enough Stamina boost that you'll have plenty of wiggle room in the HP department.

Honestly, where you're sitting right now, I'd just leave what you have and as you grab new upgrades, replace the Gems with Mastery or Mastery/Stam. The reason being: what I'm starting to realize from both the Tanking and Healing perspective in raids is that the Main Tanks gear isn't even all that important. S/He's actually one of the least important players gear-wise.

The encounters are set up to be doable even with pretty crummy stats as long as you do them right, and a lot of the killshot mechanics cannot be avoided even with an obscene amount of gear. Only places I've seen gear even making a difference thus far have been Halfus and the add tank for Maloriak.

Some of the bosses are literally jokes. This is not to say that your stats do not matter or that you should not be maximizing your survivability, only that you shouldn't lose sleep over it either.
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#7 Mar 05 2011 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
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I assume you're talking about my Impetuous Query? We had our first Magmaw kill on Thursday, and the Symbiotic Worm dropped, but I lost out to the Druid tank :( I looked on Mr. Robot and while it says that trinket is BiS for me, it's ranked 9th for Bear Druids, but that's just one opinion, so I'm trying not to feel too upset about it :P Also been trying to get the Crab from Throne of the Tides, but I have yet to see it drop.
#8 Mar 05 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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We've downed Magmaw quite a few times (lost count) and I've only seen it once, but our Group 1 (I'm in BSquad) had it drop the first 3 times in a row.

Much luck to you! Also: if the BoT Trinket (Vial off Stolen Memories) drops makes sure to make your case that the 2 stacked up together is relatively pointless and a net loss of survivability, so see if you can finagle it out from his greasy paws.

Personally, I do prefer the Symbiotic Worm, though.
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#9 Mar 05 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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I prefer the Worm too. Not only is the added effect Mastery and not Dodge, but it's an "equip" function not an "on use" function. I have a tendency to forget about my trinkets with "on use" functions, although I do remember slightly more often when I'm tanking then when I'm DPSing, heh.

From what my raid leader said, Halfus needs 3 tanks this week, and since our bear will be gone, we're probably just going to stick with Blackwing Descent tonight. I hope we can get at least one new boss down because I am 30 VP away from getting my chestpiece! If not, I'll just have to wait for my Heroic random tomorrow, but either way, almost there :D
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