Shield nerf in 5... 4... 3... 2...Follow

Except not for holy, neener neener.



(emphasis mine)



Full post on healer hotfixes.

My QQ on the matter: The idea that shield will cost less for holy than disc is just... stupid. From what little dabbling with my disc spec I've done since the patch, it seems happy now precisely because it's become worth it to use shield regularly - no, not exclusively, but regularly - again. Regularly, not "in a tight moment," is how it should be used for a spec that's largely designed around shield. And I stopped playing disc precisely because the idea that an absorption healer should only use their primary absorb "in a tight moment" is just... stupid. I enjoy my holy spec quite a lot now, but that doesn't mean I won't whine about feeling forced into it because they killed the mitigation play style. So: WAAAHHH

That's ridiculous. So what the hell is Disc supposed to do? And what's the point in having a talent that reduces the CD of PW:S if you are only using it as an oh-sh*t button? Why even go Disc anymore? I just glanced through the talent tree--nearly every spell involves offense or shields (or spells cast while weakened soul is on the target). FOUR talents directly increase output regardless of shields (and one is Inner Focus and another creates a shield).

The state of healing in this expansion is such a joke.

[EDIT]

It makes sense for PWS to not be your most efficient spell, but it shouldn't be one of your last resorts either. Especially not when your whole tree is designed around:

Reducing the PSW CD, reducing the Weakened Soul duration, giving a mana bonus when your shield is fully absorbed, giving you haste on your next spell after PWS, etc. Sure, Penance is awesome, but when your spec's only real pro is on 10 sec CD...

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:33pm by idiggory

spending all those talent points on something where:



not to mention our mastery stat. I love the idea of having a very powerful shield, but a certain synergy between talents and use of a signature spell seems to be lacking. Why spec into instant shields if you only use it in a pinch. I'm thinking maybe I should spend those Soul Warding points somewhere else. That will force me into the new "Desperate Shields" play style. Devine Aegis after PoH may be the best shield of all.

I'm not really crying. I really like disc healing, as well as our new super shield. I don't see a little extra mana as a big issue. I don't use as many shields as i used to anyway. I am tempted to re-evaluate my need for instant shield cooldown though.

Edit: I spec'd out of Soul Warding as an experiment in not casting too many shields. It just didn't feel right, so I put it back. I haven't noticed any mana difference, so I guess it's not a big deal.

Edited, Feb 17th 2011 10:06pm by dadanox

I was talking to Diggory and Shades mostly - you were the only poster ('part from Teacake and me) here that wasn't whining.

In a similar fashion and in reaction to Teacake's post; aye, that's exactly what I'm saying. There's still an awful lot of stuff 'off' about disc - it's just that people shouldn't start whining about the spec being 'unplayable' or 'underpowered' when it's clearly not. It's just odd. It's like a one-legged pirate playing pro golf leagues. It's weird, but if he's beating Tiger Woods then you can barely call him handicapped. Complain about his outfit, not his play.

Just so we're clear, does this pirate resemble Johnny Depp in any way?

And I always find you witty Dadanox.

Much rephrasing and clarifying to a more reasonable stance:





As for the nerf itself, evidently it is live now. I did 7 arena matches tonight as Disc and at least one was pre-hotfix. I really didn't notice a particular change to my longevity. Probably because there's only two of us and I'm not spamming shield on 25 people. Battlegrounds on Friday night will probably be a better test, if I switch to Disc for some of those.

This.



No one has said anything about Disc being OP or not. My complaint is that all the flavor of the spec disappears if your signature ability is one you never use.

Let me put it this way--say you are an Assasination Rogue. Most of your talents involve either poisons or Mut. Now suppose that they decided that they wanted Mut to be a burst ability only used while Vendetta was up, and Envenom once again absorbed your Deadly Poison stacks on the target. Also assume that, despite this, Rogues were consistently #1 DpS because their auto-attacks did so much damage.

I would not be happy as an Assasination Rogue. Yes, I like being balanced or OP--it's more fun than being worse off. But I would rather be able to play my preferred spec and have that spec be interesting and unique than be OP. Talents are part of what makes a spec unique.

Right now, the majority of Disc's points are going to a spell that they don't intend to be regularly used, as well as its mastery. I don't care if it's the best healer in the game--that sucks.

[EDIT]

Especially considering PWS use made it one of the most unique specs before they decided to take that out of the regular rotation.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 9:40pm by idiggory

Can someone explain to me what the issue is with a shield that:

-Is above average in mana efficiency, but not the best and doesn't absorb a ton.
-Can only be placed on a target once every x seconds.
-Has its own (short) CD--maybe 4 seconds untalented (2 after), so you can't just shield the whole party without thought.

I mean, that seems like a perfectly acceptable spell. It isn't too powerful, it isn't too mana efficient and you can't ensure that no one ever takes damage. I see the issue with always having a shield up. I don't see why casting a moderate number of shields is an issue. Is the glyph a prime offender here?

And if there were talents to buff Penance as well, the two would make a moderately cohesive tree (PvE-wise, at least).

Edit:

Blue responses to this.

TL;DR:

They want Disc to use shield, but want them to use all their other spells. So they've decided to do is to make PW:S something you use less frequently. My favorite part is when he mentions that Disc priests have talents to buff other spells (lol).

That's fine... if the entire spec wasn't designed around the ability. If they don't want Disc to rely on shields, then their talent tree shouldn't be designed around them relying on shields. Their mastery shouldn't only affect shields.

They say they want Disc to still be the mitigation tree...

I feel like they have absolutely no vision for the tree, or any idea how to go about getting there.

Because, at the end of the day, PW:S is just going to get better each tier, as Priests gain Mastery. Even if it is an oh-sh*t button now, it may not stay that way once it is 40-50% stronger due to mastery. How are they gonna stop Priests from prioritizing shield then?

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 10:32pm by idiggory

No offense, but if that's true, you picked your words poorly. I've said, twice now, that I don't mind complaints about flavor - you said things like "What the hell is disc supposed to do?", "Why even go disc anymore?" and "Sure, Penance is awesome, but when your spec's only real pro is on 10 sec CD... ". That, to me, at least indicates a "the whole spec is flawed and pointless", which is a polite way of saying "disc is underpowered". Maybe I read too much into your post because of shades' even more biased post right behind it, but you can't say that doesn't at least indicate a complaint about Disc's performance.

Aside from that though - especially with their latest comment, I'm still not all too worried. I think PW:S will end up in the right spot. I will still share the complaint that the tree is off, though - they could at least make Smite healing worth it.

A. You've said complaints about flavor are justified after the post you just quoted. So that really makes no sense in the context of an argument.

B. In order to read it that way you have to assume that I'm asserting that Disc is less powerful than Holy, which you have no reason to do. I never said so, and the whole point of the blue post in question was to say that these changes were reducing the disparity between heals.

C. I'll grant that you could read it to assert that Disc is underpowered, but only if you are looking for it to say so. In the context of the whole post, which is complaining about the fact that so many talents focus on buffing what is now an oh-sh*t button, I don't think you are justified.

D. My edit, which is where the quote comes from, is clear that my complaint is how they are changing things, not that they are changing them. I don't give a damn if Disc priests are now stronger--I think it's a terrible design choice. I see no reason to find Disc interesting as it stands (at least not once Smite healing is no longer viable).

That's funny. When I play Holy, my guild asks me to switch back to disc (but that may have more to do with me).

I'm playing disc PvP (holy PvE).

The change to Disc with 4.0.6 was huge. Wasn't it something like 200% stronger shields for 30% more mana? I'm not suprised it was considered too much. Grace and penance changes were nice little buffs to healing.

I'd like it if somehow more could be made of divine aegis. To make mastery, or even some of the shield talents more all-round useful.