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#1 Feb 15 2011 at 2:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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We need a disc thread since we have plenty full time disco priests.

I recently, today, shifted to a crit/mastery based gear set up. I like it more so far over the haste/balanced set up I was using before.

PW:S, DA and Atonement all feel stronger. I like that.
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#2 Feb 15 2011 at 5:29 AM Rating: Good
Thanks for this.

My build has kind of lost it's way as I played with different ideas. I'm going to come back to yours, with the exception of picking up Improved Renew rather over Train of Thought. Blizzard scared me into an intellect / spirit heavy focus, at the expense of everything else. Other than that, I try to be balanced.

The main thing that may be different for me than most is that I run almost exclusively with Inner Will rather than Inner Fire.

Last night we ran a normal, and I had a tank that started 2 boss fights before I came into the room. I got locked out. On the second one, our highest dps got locked out too (which was good, because the boss came out and tried to beat our arses). We downed both by my using PoH, the heal that goes through walls and gates.

The other day I was sitting in stormwind and realized that my mana regen and procs meant that Heal was mana neutral. Out of combat I could constantly cast it until next year. In combat, I'm sure I could last a long time. The only problem is, I can't see the advantage of using a spell with longer cast time and less healing power than smite healing. If Heal was instant cast, with it's current low mana requirement and lowest throughput of our three heals, that would be interesting. As it is, I haven't found how to work it in.

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 7:27am by dadanox
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#3 Feb 15 2011 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey Horse can you post your build? I am not sure where you had posted it in the past, and... I am being lazy!

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#4 Feb 15 2011 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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Using this build. Tried SoL but didn't like it so filled out MA instead.

ToT is awesome, I don't use Heal as GH is just as efficient with ToT. Sometimes Smite isn't powerful enough and it is nice to have GH to fall back on and not murder my mana at the same time.

Renew is a spell I only use when moving or to top off a DPS in a 5 man. Just doesn't pack a punch with out all the Holy talents and what not.

edit:
#showtooltip Greater Heal
/cast Inner Focus
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
/cast [nomodifier, @player] Greater Heal; [modifier:shift, @target] Greater Heal

Helps maximize IF usage. Cause if you aren't using it on CD with GH spam you are doing it wrong.

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 3:28pm by Horsemouth
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#5 Feb 15 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
Horsemouth wrote:
ToT is awesome, I don't use Heal as GH is just as efficient with ToT.


Ok, I'll give it a try. My GH macro for comparison:


#showtooltip Greater Heal
/use 10
/cast [target=player] Power Infusion
/cast Inner Focus
/cast [@vuhdo] Greater Heal

Of course a mouseover could be used rather than vuhdo. Slot 10 is my intellect glove tinker from engineering. Power infusion not only increases the casting speed, but decreases mana by 20% for 15 seconds.

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 8:52pm by dadanox
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#6 Feb 16 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Why do you guys all include the showtooltip bit? What does that do in your macro?
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#7 Feb 16 2011 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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I IZ IN YUR THREAD DISC PEEPS!

Moon, the showtooltip displays the proper icon and tool tip for the specified spell when you put it on your toolbar. Not only is the tool tip sometimes handy, but this saves you the trouble of having to dig around for the right icon when you create the macro; just choose the ? icon and it'll automagically display the right one.
#8 Feb 16 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
Welcome Teacake, come by any time.

I did notice that in my macros, I should wait to let the spells finish casting before activating it again. Mindlessly clicking as fast as I can actually acts to my detriment, and keeps things like inner focus from activating as often as it should.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 4:06pm by dadanox
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#9 Feb 21 2011 at 2:39 AM Rating: Good
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The post-nerf Disc isn't so bad. I was never a spammer and switched to IW so I guess that makes it a wash.

Debating on my first VP purchase. Have Witching and Tear with Mandala coming soon so not in a super rush for Ripeness.

Likely going to wait a week and see how raiding goes as if we finally get a stable core and start making decent progress the VP intake will increase drastically.

The tier bonuses are crap so no need for set bonuses, so the tier IMO is judged on stats alone. Still will want some of them as the stats are good but again the bonus is uber-lame for Disc.

Still what are other Disco folks prioritizing in VP purchases?
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#10 Feb 21 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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How is the bonus not awesome? 540 spirit permanently for holy, and while it sucks more for disc it'll still have a, say, 60% uptime?

That much spirit basically puts you one tier above the current in terms of regeneration.
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#11 Feb 21 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
How is the bonus not awesome? 540 spirit permanently for holy, and while it sucks more for disc it'll still have a, say, 60% uptime?

That much spirit basically puts you one tier above the current in terms of regeneration.


Holy has a trivial to get 100% up time of the bonus. Disc requires a glyph, more GCDs and you to potential heal/shield someone who doesn't really need it to achieve maximal uptime. Not even considering the preference to Int for Disc as a regen stat.

The four piece is very biased towards Holy. Heck out of all the healers the Holy one is hands down the best and easiest to virtually guarantee near 100% uptime, for the healing spec that best scales with Spirit none the less.
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#12 Feb 21 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Decent
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This may seem like a total noob comment, and that is because I am a noob, but, does this lack of uptime equate to us being unable to accomplish a job? In my WoW travels so far I have found that I never run out of MP and that my biggest problem is casting a spell fast enough. Now I am only in the early 50s in terms of levels, but I can not think of a single time in which I was actually worried about MP.

I assume this changes with higher end content?
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#13 Feb 21 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Moonkissed wrote:
This may seem like a total noob comment, and that is because I am a noob, but, does this lack of uptime equate to us being unable to accomplish a job? In my WoW travels so far I have found that I never run out of MP and that my biggest problem is casting a spell fast enough. Now I am only in the early 50s in terms of levels, but I can not think of a single time in which I was actually worried about MP.

I assume this changes with higher end content?


With 100% up time it makes the set pieces better by adding free stats. So each of the four pieces would be the same but with roughly +100 Spirit. With say 50% up time that drops to roughly +50 Spirit per piece. As it is a smaller boost non tier pieces with different stats on them can easily end up being better do to itemization. So the lack of up time just devalues the benefit.

This of course changes based on up time. Also being in Chakra is a default state for Holy, having to potentially use two GCDs for Disc to activate the boost in addition to being more restricted in Penance use is far more cumbersome.

Also stats take a beating at level 84 or so, going OoM is a real possibility. Having the bonus trigger simply by using Penance would make far more sense. Especially in light of Blizz's new decision that we shouldn't be shielding all the time.
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#14 Feb 22 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Ahhh! So as you get higher level spirit stops taking you as far as earlier?
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#15 Feb 23 2011 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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Moonkissed wrote:
Ahhh! So as you get higher level spirit stops taking you as far as earlier?


Pretty much. At the point you're at, I wouldn't expect much mana problems. However, once you hit the 80s, especially 85, you'll find that mana is a much larger concern. Spirit will be your best friend as a healer, something you should have on every piece of gear.
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#16 Mar 01 2011 at 4:28 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
Moonkissed wrote:
Ahhh! So as you get higher level spirit stops taking you as far as earlier?


Pretty much. At the point you're at, I wouldn't expect much mana problems. However, once you hit the 80s, especially 85, you'll find that mana is a much larger concern. Spirit will be your best friend as a healer, something you should have on every piece of gear.


I'm starting to feel ok with not having Spirit on everything. I want to make the crit/mast legs but am waiting until after this weeks BH in case the tier ones drop.

Regardless, have no Spirit on neck, gloves & one ring and haven't felt the need to reforge the pieces to have Spirit.
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#17 Mar 03 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Blue Post wrote:
Priest  
    Holy Fire damage has been increased to be approximately 30% higher than Smite. 
    Mind Sear damage has been doubled. 
Discipline 
    Atonement now works with Holy Fire in addition to Smite. 
Glyphs 
    Glyph of Divine Accuracy now also affects Holy Fire in addition to Smite. 


A Disc buff??? Still tossing Disc a bone is a nice gesture.
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#18 Mar 04 2011 at 4:09 AM Rating: Good
Horsemouth wrote:
[quote=Blue Post]
Priest  
    Holy Fire damage has been increased to be approximately 30% higher than Smite. 
    Mind Sear damage has been doubled. 
Discipline 
    Atonement now works with Holy Fire in addition to Smite. 
Glyphs 
    Glyph of Divine Accuracy now also affects Holy Fire in addition to Smite. 


Now the Glyph of Smite doesn't cause you to lose one heal in your rotation. It boosts your smite HPS through increased smite damage without losing a heal when you cast holy fire. This is a wonderful change that just makes sense.

Wait, what? Mind Sear doubled...... NO HEALS FOR YOU!!... Bubble spam, what bubble spam? I'm a smiting, searing, healy guy.

I'm really excited by these changes.

Edited, Mar 4th 2011 5:10am by dadanox
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#19 Mar 04 2011 at 6:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Do you use Mind Sear a lot??
#20 Mar 04 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
teacake wrote:
Do you use Mind Sear a lot??


On trash pulls, if everything is under control, I may mind sear with the tank as my target. Obviously healing is my first responsibility, but there are situations where PW:Shield and Multiple Mind Sear on the tank is an interesting diversion. It has always come at the cost of not healing like smite, and using a bit more mana. With it doing double the damage, I will surely use it at times.

Blizzard wants us using a variety of spells. These changes will actually encourage it.


Edited, Mar 4th 2011 8:14am by dadanox
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#21 Mar 04 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Working in Holy Fire into Atonement is a very good move. I'd still say the points are argueable since Heal still seems just as good, but the whole rotation is definitely more interesting now. Going all-out on the smite in terms of talents and glyphs seems like it'll actually pack a punch now.
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#22 Mar 04 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I duo a lot of content with my fiancee and Smite Healing has allowed us to do some impressive stuff. She is a paladin, so keeping her alive is fairly easy, and the smite healing helps our damage. This Holy Fire change is going to be nice.
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#23 Mar 04 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I duo a lot of content with my fiancee and Smite Healing has allowed us to do some impressive stuff. She is a paladin, so keeping her alive is fairly easy, and the smite healing helps our damage. This Holy Fire change is going to be nice.

That post has actually given me a bit of insight. Duo-leveling with a melee class would probably be the only place where I'd fully recommend picking up Atonement ASAP. Being able to heal in dungeons and dealing ~70% of the DPS you could be dealing on quests while keeping your buddy permanently on full health is pretty much optimal if you're doing the 2-step style of leveling.
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#24 Mar 04 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
Working in Holy Fire into Atonement is a very good move. I'd still say the points are argueable since Heal still seems just as good, but the whole rotation is definitely more interesting now. Going all-out on the smite in terms of talents and glyphs seems like it'll actually pack a punch now.


Heal is terrible even if you don't pick up AA/A. GH is far better unless you are only using Heal for Grace/SoS reasons when the target doesn't actually need healing.
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#25 Mar 04 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree. I hardly ever use heal in either spec. I don't even know where it is on my toolbar. Gheal or it's not worth it to stand still for that long. The mana savings is not making the choice any harder when you give me two heals with exactly the same cast time where one of them only returns a tiny percentage of health and the other is an actual heal.
#26 Mar 04 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt, as I haven't played in weeks, but... how is Heal 'terrible'? Like I've got in the sticky, back when I still did stuff it server a 'filler' function that overlapped pretty much completely with Atonement. AKA spamming Heal gave you the same healing done as spamming Smite while fully talented and glyphed into Atonement. AKA you'd be wasting two glyph slots and 5+ talent points to get something you already have.
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#27 Mar 04 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mozared wrote:
spamming Heal gave you the same healing done as spamming Smite


Speaking for myself, I'm not spamming anything. I'm using everything (except heal, ha ha). And when utilizing as many tools as a priest has, heal just doesn't stand up to the others. I find it to be terrible simply because I haven't got 2.5 seconds to spare for a small heal. If it's not instant or at least fast, then it has to be big. They could give me heal for like 12 mana and it still wouldn't change that.

Then again, I don't Smite heal either, so I know my opinion isn't the relevant one to your question. But I would venture to guess that even in this time of "bigger health pools, more time to think," pretty much every priest can find something better to spend almost three seconds on. Even Smite is doing some damage, for according to your math the same amount of healing, and with half a second less investment. Plus significantly more mana, true, and certainly mana is a big issue right now. But heal is just so unimpressive to me that I can't think even its high efficiency is worth it.
#28 Mar 04 2011 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
In my experience, heal takes longer to cast than smite, meaning my HPS is more with smite than heal. Plus, I help get the mobs down faster by adding dps, which is a good thing. The only thing heal has is that I will probably never run out of mana using it.
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#29 Mar 04 2011 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Well no, I don't 'spam' heal either. But whenever the group's filled up and it's just the tank taking steady but low damage? That's what Smite spam is for, and where it fulfills exactly the same function as Heal. If Heal isn't enough, that's when all other spells come in. If Heal isn't enough, Smite won't be either, though.

I've got a feeling we're talking past eachother in some way though, because unless the whole game changed in those weeks I've been gone, this is very basic knowledge that I know you have too.
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#30 Mar 04 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
Once you are a bit overgeared for the content you are running with guildies, it's pretty normal for a priest to want to throw in a little dps for fun. We've always done that. Smite lets you do it and still heal at the same time. It's fun to try and not be the low dps, while you are still healing. Smite certainly isn't needed. It's there for fun if it suits your style. I enjoy using it where appropriate (along with holy fire). To just heal, heal, heal, oh wait, let me throw a heal.... perhaps effective, but boring.
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#31 Mar 04 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
Well no, I don't 'spam' heal either. But whenever the group's filled up and it's just the tank taking steady but low damage? That's what Smite spam is for, and where it fulfills exactly the same function as Heal. If Heal isn't enough, that's when all other spells come in. If Heal isn't enough, Smite won't be either, though.

I've got a feeling we're talking past eachother in some way though, because unless the whole game changed in those weeks I've been gone, this is very basic knowledge that I know you have too.


Smite typically heals for more, is faster and scales better with raid buffs, as it can take advantage of spell damage/crit buffs placed on mobs.

Greater Heal with ToT is just as mana efficient as Heal(assuming no overhealing) and actually heals the target for a noticeable amount.

Heal is the spell I cast in a 5-man when I'm not paying attention and my macro falls through to Heal. In the limited raiding I have done I have never cast Heal as there is always a better spell to cast.
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#32 Mar 11 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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As Holy, Heal is what I cast when I have nothing better to do. There are rare but occasional times where no one's taking damage, but as a rule I'm always casting something, and if nothing else presents itself, that "something" is Heal. One exception does present itself... pillar healing on Nefarian. If I use anything other than a simple PoM, CoH, Heal rotation (with some Serenity for taste) I can drive myself OOM easily. Using Heal forces me to pace myself, which is critical to stretching my mana through the whole encounter.

Smite, as played by my Disc priest buddy, doesn't occupy quite the same niche. For him, Smite is bread-and-butter. Atonement is a smart heal, so virtually never wasted; it powers Archangel, which he uses on-cooldown for the mana returns and the healing boost; and any damage-boosting effect causes Atonement's mana efficiency to become a bit silly. In fact, I have a Disc off-spec for hard-mode Halfus Wyrmbreaker (100k Atonement heals? It's for real!). He can do the pillar-healing on Nefarian far more gracefully than I can thanks to Atonement and Archangel. (I just make it back on area-heals after Electrocutes).
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#33 Mar 18 2011 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
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Got to try heal Chim a bit tonight. Was fairly crazy. Using FH again was weird. When I try again tomorrow I'm going to use BH instead for easy mode self-healing.

Pretty cool fight, got a new hat as well earlier in the raid.
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