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#1 Feb 08 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Hi guys,
I've read the Ret. guide here and had a look on the EJ site and I'am still lost with the mention of the Hit and Expertise caps for Ret. spec.
No one has actually mentioned what these numbers are, everyone seems to say you must be capped with these stats but honestly I cant find the numbers I'am supposed to be aiming for.
I'am still leveling my Pally so its not life and death just yet but it would be nice to know what I have to build towards.
Thanks for the help :)
#2 Feb 08 2011 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Melee hit cap for single weapon is 8%. I don't know that is in rating though.

Expertise cap is 26.
#3 Feb 08 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The EJ "Combat Ratings at level 85" thread says:
120.11 Hit for 1%
30.03 Expertise for 1%

These exactly match my paper doll stats on the Armory.

Note the massive scaling:
At level 60, it's 9.38 hit for 1% - and only 30.75 hit at level 80.
At level 60, it's 2.34 expertise for 1% - and only 7.69 expertise at level 80.

Also, don't forget the Draenei bonus, if applicable, or that Glyph of Seal of Truth is worth 10 expertise.
#4 Feb 10 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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Now its easier than ever to see what your caps are at and how close you are to hitting those caps. By opening your character window and expanding the detailed side on the right, you can see what your chance to miss and dodge/parry are by hovering your mouse over your hit rating or expertise. If it says your chance to miss a boss is 0% you're good. If your chance for your attacks to be dodged against a boss is 0% you're good. You don't have to worry about your chance for your attacks to be parried, because mobs only parry from the front, and you should be attacking from behind.

By the time you are level 85, and have gotten to an average itemlevel of about 343, you should be able to cap both of these stats (assuming you are using PvE gear and not PvP gear).

Remember this though, gem/enchant for strength, reforge for hit/expertise. This is because gems and enchants are pretty expensive, and as you get more gear it will be easier to hit your Hit/Expertise caps. If you are hit/expertise capped, and you can still reforge more gear, reforge any crit/haste into Mastery. The new mastery bonus is awesome, and is our best stat to stack after strength which you can't reforge into.

Also, this is my rule, but I don't know if people have similar rules. Don't gem/enchant anything below ilvl 346 gear. Once you are doing heroics, you will be replacing that gear very quickly, and you will be wasting that money for a slight damage increase. That slight damage increase is useful when doing raids, but for heroics it won't make or break the run.
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#5 Feb 10 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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CapJack wrote:
Remember this though, gem/enchant for strength, reforge for hit/expertise. This is because gems and enchants are pretty expensive, and as you get more gear it will be easier to hit your Hit/Expertise caps. If you are hit/expertise capped, and you can still reforge more gear, reforge any crit/haste into Mastery. The new mastery bonus is awesome, and is our best stat to stack after strength which you can't reforge into.

Also, this is my rule, but I don't know if people have similar rules. Don't gem/enchant anything below ilvl 346 gear. Once you are doing heroics, you will be replacing that gear very quickly, and you will be wasting that money for a slight damage increase. That slight damage increase is useful when doing raids, but for heroics it won't make or break the run.

Heh. If your experience is anything like mine you'll likely be hard-pressed to avoid hitcapping through gear alone and be actively reforging away from it. I think I was at about 11%, even without a hit trinket...

My rule for gemming/enchanting is, once you get to gear that you'll be grouping with for endgame normals (325 blues or higher, basically), use a cheap green-quality cut in a non-primary color (i.e. purple str/hit for a blue slot, orange str/mast for a yellow). These should be real close to the 9g vendor price (for real bargain-basement, Wrath greens should be on the order of 1g). Similarly for enchants - there are some scrolls commonly used for leveling that require very cheap and/or non-endgame mats and are often dumped on the AH en masse. While they often aren't perfect - raw attack power and the like - they cost practically nothing. That way, when a stranger inspects me, my gear practically shouts "I'm conscientious, but I'm not stupid", and they hopefully don't initiate a vote-kick in the doorway like they might if they saw empty sockets.
#6 Feb 10 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Heh. If your experience is anything like mine you'll likely be hard-pressed to avoid hitcapping through gear alone and be actively reforging away from it. I think I was at about 11%, even without a hit trinket...


It really fluctuates on the gear you get. Some of it will be loaded with hit/expertise, and some will be loaded with haste/crit. For instance, I keep finding myself hit/expertise capped, then I get an upgrade and one or the other drops off, making me reforge some more and working the numbers.


Unless you are doing raids, I've never had anyone kick me (or seen it happen) because of a lack of gems/enchants in a heroic. I've seen someone get kicked because they were standing in stuff too much, or their dps was really suffering (like 3kdps in an 85 heroic) consistently, but not just right off the bat. But that just might be my experience and other servers will dropkick you for not gemming/enchanting your gear immediately. I guess if this is happening to you then you should throw some gem/enchants into your low level gear.

Yeah you can get the cheap stuff if you want to stay on the precipice of your equipment as much as possible as you are gearing up, but the rate at which you get new equipment hardly seems worth the gold, even if it is cheap and next to nothing.
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#7 Feb 11 2011 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
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For extra win skills at reforging click here.
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#8 Feb 14 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks guys awesome feedback.

Almost hit 71 on my alt Pally who will be my main for awhile as I really enjoy playing pve Ret.
I'll gem for strength and use reforging for the caps plus gear stats so it should all balance out.

The other thing I'am a little puzzled with is Zealotry.

I can see how in an instance or raid it would be ideal to use but in leveling I'am not really seeing its use.
By the time its up its only really good for one use before your target is dead.
Maybe I'am using it wrong I dont know.

Thank you again for the help :)

Edited, Feb 14th 2011 2:01pm by RodStorm
#9 Feb 14 2011 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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I rarely use Zealotry outside of instances/raids. The only time I use it aside from those is PvP and really tough pulls in the Cata zones. When you get into the Cata leveling zones, those tough pulls might come more often than before. It can be great in a pinch to heal yourself up (Crusader's Strike + Word of Glory chain) or deal out as much damage as possible to end the fight quicker, depending on the situation.

Just remember that Zealotry and Avenging Wrath fight each other for cooldowns, so don't pop both at the same time.
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#10 Feb 15 2011 at 7:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks mate, I didnt think it was for leveling as everything seems to be over before I get a chance to use it for a second time.
I just picked up Avenging Wrath so I'll concentrate more on using it.
I checked out your armoury Cap and I saw a few pieces from Deadmines in there, not good, I hate that place :)
Only done it a couple of times on my Shadowpriest but that was enough.
Thanks again.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:43am by RodStorm
#11 Feb 15 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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Really? I have a lot of fun at Deadmines. Especially the blood bubbles increased damage. If you go with a good group its not too bad. The last part can be pretty hectic though.

All those DM pieces I got in one run (really lucky run for me), so thats why a lot of my gear is from there.
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#12 Feb 16 2011 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Well to be honest I've never ran it from start to finish, the random dungeon finder usually puts me in a group up to the last bosses, happened twice so far which is the amount of times I've been in there, on my spriest I had a lot of trouble getting the gist of it so hopefully on my Pally it will go a lot smoother.

I just didnt really understand what I was doing, I asked and just got told follow everyone else....not really good advice tbh....ohhhh...you want me to swing on those ropes....lol.
But it still has a cringe factor :)

Also out of interest is there a BiS thread anywhere for pre-raid gear?
I didnt see one here or the EJ site but I've known to be blind before :)

Thanks guys.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:23pm by RodStorm
#13 Feb 16 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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You'd be hard-pressed to find that kind of a list. What I use to check out good gear I should be going for is MaxDPS.com, which you can filter to include or not include items from individual raids or other sources.

It lists all of the equipment that would be beneficial for you if you put in your character information. There is a couple things to note here:

Pros:
1) Filterable list so you can specify exactly where you want to be getting your gear from.

2) It can import your character data from the armory for a personal item comparison. For example it will detect if you are hit/expertise capped, and therefore avoid more items with hit/expertise on it.

3) You can see a theoretical dps of your character based on rotation and it's own spreadsheet math.

Cons:

1) It doesn't take into account that if you take away an item with +Hit/+Expertise on it, you will no longer be hitcapped. So while an item on the list may be higher than your current item, if your current item has hit/expertise and you are capped, then it isn't terribly accurate.

2) It's item weights are a little bit off for 4.0.6, I think they should be ranking Mastery a bit higher. Also the rotation hasn't been updated for 4.0.6, so dps value is a bit low.

Just remember that it's a tool, not a rule. So if you see something on there that looks like it could be an upgrade, make sure you cross-reference it with your own gear, make sure you can stay capped if you get that gear (with reforging this is easier than ever) and then make a decision.
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#14 Feb 16 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the help mate, I did use Rawr back in the day when it was stable but for now its so buggy its not worth using.
I think on my Mage many moons ago I used MaxDPS.com, I'd forgotten about it to be honest, so I'll go pay the site another visit.
Thanks again for your time and help.
#15 Feb 17 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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No problem, it's what I do.
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#16 Apr 23 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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RodStorm wrote:
Well to be honest I've never ran it from start to finish, the random dungeon finder usually puts me in a group up to the last bosses, happened twice so far which is the amount of times I've been in there, on my spriest I had a lot of trouble getting the gist of it so hopefully on my Pally it will go a lot smoother.

I just didnt really understand what I was doing, I asked and just got told follow everyone else....not really good advice tbh....ohhhh...you want me to swing on those ropes....lol.
But it still has a cringe factor :)

Also out of interest is there a BiS thread anywhere for pre-raid gear?
I didnt see one here or the EJ site but I've known to be blind before :)

Thanks guys.

Edited, Feb 16th 2011 1:23pm by RodStorm


There's a pretty good thread on the US forums with lists of the best pre-raid gear for all 3 specs.

It doesn't give you BiS for each slot, but gives you the best 3 or 4 items. Remember, with being hit and expertise capped being so important what's best for a certain slot can change with each upgrade you get.
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