I finally got around to doing a few reg mode instances this weekend and I don't know about you all, but I'm kinda disappointed with my current DPS. I used to comfortably, without even trying, do about 8k DPS, which I know, isn't a huge number, but I wasn't really doing anything cutting edge, just heroics and the rare PuG raid for the weekly. These few instances, I was running about 6k. That actually tended to put me as third every time(and one time even 4th behind the tank!), though I usually hit first or second on damage done(depending on the boss and my luck with crit streaks), meaning I'm confident I was taking advantage of Fire's biggest strength as outlined by the Elitist Jerks guide(the ability to DPS constantly even when moving).
To be fair, I was also running instances I had never seen as opposed to instances I can run in my sleep and of course there's the sadness that is the huge drop in crit % we saw from leveling, but it still has me irked a bit about my own performance. So that's why I ask you, how is your current DPS in 5 mans?
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I haven't played in over a week, call it burnout or boredom (probably going to unsubscribe again soon, sigh $40 down the drain) but my DPS in ~333 gear was around 10k, which makes me sad as that was a drop from what I was doing at 80 but /shrug. That was as arcane, as frost it can be around those numbers as well, but I gave up on frost as I have too much trouble trying to control my elemental (it kept pulling extra packs/breaking CC/etc).
Generally speaking as Arcane I struggle with mana regen but I may need to tweak my rototion. Having played Rogue dps during Wrath this whole energy starvation business has me baffled since the last time I played mage dps was in BC as Frost.
Currently I rely on good strings of crits and Clearcasting procs to keep up with similar geared dps during boss fights. Kinda makes me sad that I have to hold back during a burn (Heroism/Lust/TW) phase because I'll end up oom in about 8 seconds if I'm not careful.
I was arcane through all of Wrath. (Dabbled in the Frost-Fire Crit spec back in the beginning, but went arcane for the last 1.5yrs.)
DPS
Arcane: I can spike the damage meters and look good, but in reality, I'm throwing 5-7k. I can spike it via Troll Racial, pop CDs and Pop trinkets. That initial spike will make it look very good, but it's not real. It's just a gimick with the meters.
Fire: I'm consistently 4-5k. I have never been fire and I have no clue what I'm doing. Fire seems to be a mix of direct damage and managing DoTs. I'm kind of annoyed that the mage class is moving toward Locks and S.priests. I have an 80 priest and I don't like the concept of DoTs. (I just don't think it's fun, it's just my opinion though.) I really liked the idea of mages casting direct damage spells with the concept of fire/ignite ticks just being a nice bonus - not a main focus of the class/spec.
Frost: I have not used frost in an instance, but have watched a few frost mages. Firstly - The pet needs to be watched. I've seen the break CC. Second, the they feel very controlling to me. I was in Stonecore (Tanking) and you know the section with those non-elite Sentry guys - the frost mage was helpful. (Though a good DPS could simply kill them, the frost mage was able to slow and kill them ~ which was just an extra level of safety.
DPS
Arcane: I can spike the damage meters and look good, but in reality, I'm throwing 5-7k. I can spike it via Troll Racial, pop CDs and Pop trinkets. That initial spike will make it look very good, but it's not real. It's just a gimick with the meters.
Fire: I'm consistently 4-5k. I have never been fire and I have no clue what I'm doing. Fire seems to be a mix of direct damage and managing DoTs. I'm kind of annoyed that the mage class is moving toward Locks and S.priests. I have an 80 priest and I don't like the concept of DoTs. (I just don't think it's fun, it's just my opinion though.) I really liked the idea of mages casting direct damage spells with the concept of fire/ignite ticks just being a nice bonus - not a main focus of the class/spec.
Frost: I have not used frost in an instance, but have watched a few frost mages. Firstly - The pet needs to be watched. I've seen the break CC. Second, the they feel very controlling to me. I was in Stonecore (Tanking) and you know the section with those non-elite Sentry guys - the frost mage was helpful. (Though a good DPS could simply kill them, the frost mage was able to slow and kill them ~ which was just an extra level of safety.
Scholar
41 posts
I'd go along with those numbers people are seeing, but burst is still outrageous on some fights, especially with arcane. Not a great fan of frost cos the elemental seems to have a mind of its own. Think I might try fire next, but looking at my stats, don't think its going to happen yet.
Another observation is about the Flame Orb. Sometimes I've noticed it goes off on a tangent and targets nothing, if a critter is near by to what your targetting, it attacks that, kills it then despawns, or very occassionally, drops in front of you and does nothing.
Another observation is about the Flame Orb. Sometimes I've noticed it goes off on a tangent and targets nothing, if a critter is near by to what your targetting, it attacks that, kills it then despawns, or very occassionally, drops in front of you and does nothing.
Between what I'm seeing as responses here and what I've seen in PuGs the last few days, I'm feeling a little better. 6k seems to be the new 1700(the number where you were doing well enough to get through the instance, but still felt like you were slacking). Still running anywhere from 5800-6500, I found myself more often placing second in my groups. So, all in all, not too bad.
Pulling 9-10K on Heroic bosses, which makes me feel somewhat good. You're going to need around that mark to raid I think.
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
Picked up a little more gear since my last post and I have noticed some change. Right now I am shifting between Fire and Arcane depending on the which instance it is.
I find on a boss fight it really depends on how much proccing you get during a good burn phase as Arcane. Sometimes I can do up to 14k with TW/Lust/Heroism other times if the fight is quite mobile it can be lower than 5k.
Fire seems to be a lot more consistent since mobile fights aren't a big problem.
Group make-up has been the biggest eye opener for me. I had a Shaman and Ret Paladin in a group for heroic Deadmines and their mana replenishment allowed for regular ABx3-4 during trash and bossfights without having to worry as much about mana consumption.
I find on a boss fight it really depends on how much proccing you get during a good burn phase as Arcane. Sometimes I can do up to 14k with TW/Lust/Heroism other times if the fight is quite mobile it can be lower than 5k.
Fire seems to be a lot more consistent since mobile fights aren't a big problem.
Group make-up has been the biggest eye opener for me. I had a Shaman and Ret Paladin in a group for heroic Deadmines and their mana replenishment allowed for regular ABx3-4 during trash and bossfights without having to worry as much about mana consumption.
Meh. I have a bit of crit but -very- little haste which means, unless I'm on a boss, it's kinda yuck, better off just scorching and fishing for HS. I haven't really gotten the hang of aoe fire yet. Even on a boss, I'm still trying to figure out the burn/hover rotations, so sometimes I'll do like 6k dps and other times I'll do 14k.
In raids, I'm sucking pretty badly, but my survivability is pretty good. That tends to be the way I behave in general, though, the better I know a boss, the more dps I'll do. I'd rather stay alive and barely be above the tanks than to tunnel-vision w/ my dps and die. I still need a lot of gear, though. I was lagged compared to most people in leveling, so I haven't gotten a lot of gear from heroics yet. I tried pugging, but ommmmmmmmg no, waste of time and money.
I think I'll get better as my gear gets better and I get used to figuring out fights and which rotations I should be using when. Not real happy about the mana issues with fire. I'm playing fire, not arcane, dammit! :)
I swear, though, I wish I had another shaman. I'd mainswitch in a heartbeat. DPS is a blast as ele. But my main shaman is spoken for in a 10man.
Anyway, deja vu from the beginning of Wrath.
In raids, I'm sucking pretty badly, but my survivability is pretty good. That tends to be the way I behave in general, though, the better I know a boss, the more dps I'll do. I'd rather stay alive and barely be above the tanks than to tunnel-vision w/ my dps and die. I still need a lot of gear, though. I was lagged compared to most people in leveling, so I haven't gotten a lot of gear from heroics yet. I tried pugging, but ommmmmmmmg no, waste of time and money.
I think I'll get better as my gear gets better and I get used to figuring out fights and which rotations I should be using when. Not real happy about the mana issues with fire. I'm playing fire, not arcane, dammit! :)
I swear, though, I wish I had another shaman. I'd mainswitch in a heartbeat. DPS is a blast as ele. But my main shaman is spoken for in a 10man.
Anyway, deja vu from the beginning of Wrath.
Scholar
38 posts
As a tank I'm hitting around 7.5k on packs of 2 or more and just above 5k on single target, maybe 6k on a boss with a full rage bar. I'm not to clued up on class changes but the difference in DPS between the tanks and DPS classes doesn't seem to be that great these days, the highest DPS I have seen is somebody peaking around 14k and averaging 11-12k. Gear wise... I am in mostly with 333 with a couple of 346 and one piece that isn't 333
I think being able to pull 8k in a heroic may become the new benchmark as that number will shoot up with raid buffs.
*edit*...just noticed I posted this in the mage forums (lol) but I guess my comments are still relevant, since posting I have found that the opportunities to hit 10k DPS are situational and the actual number is less relevant now as long as stuff dies quickly.
Edited, Dec 25th 2010 4:59pm by Zeous
I think being able to pull 8k in a heroic may become the new benchmark as that number will shoot up with raid buffs.
*edit*...just noticed I posted this in the mage forums (lol) but I guess my comments are still relevant, since posting I have found that the opportunities to hit 10k DPS are situational and the actual number is less relevant now as long as stuff dies quickly.
Edited, Dec 25th 2010 4:59pm by Zeous
Zeous wrote:
*edit*...just noticed I posted this in the mage forums (lol) but I guess my comments are still relevant, since posting I have found that the opportunities to hit 10k DPS are situational and the actual number is less relevant now as long as stuff dies quickly.
Scholar
38 posts
An example of what I was talking last night is the first boss in Black Rock caverns. I hit close to 11k DPS because we constantly had adds us because we were slow burning them down. I think it will be difficult comparing normative values for DPS because they will vary greatly from fight to fight, more so than in WOTLK.
I can dps from 10-15k in most heroics and raids it is alittle harder to gauge.
I am an arcane mage and like to think I am rather good at it. Its nolonger faceroll and requires alot of focus to keep it up. I also think it is rather gear dependant. I currently have two sets of gear. I set i use for 5 man heroics, and another set I use for Raids. Cause of the need for 1742 or 1746 in raids its alittle harder to properly itemize for a raid. I have about 90k mana in my 5 man gear.
I am an arcane mage and like to think I am rather good at it. Its nolonger faceroll and requires alot of focus to keep it up. I also think it is rather gear dependant. I currently have two sets of gear. I set i use for 5 man heroics, and another set I use for Raids. Cause of the need for 1742 or 1746 in raids its alittle harder to properly itemize for a raid. I have about 90k mana in my 5 man gear.
Jennave wrote:
I have about 90k mana in my 5 man gear.
I'm asking because I only have 73928 unbuffed, and while I know my gear is crap, it amazes me that it could possibly go up that much.
Edit: New question for folks just to satisfy my curiosity. What's your equipped iLvl and unbuffed mana?
Edited, Dec 28th 2010 12:34am by Poldaran
Scholar
32 posts
Hey guys - thought I would join in the fun.
My dps is now at 9k-10k in H dungeons consistantly and I'm settling in with Arcane now that I have enough mana ( buffed mid 80's).
I am thinking of trying some 10 man raids- ( grrr pugs)....
Anyone know what the first raids are ? and what your gear level should be going into them ?
Anyway - happy new year all !
Vyn
My dps is now at 9k-10k in H dungeons consistantly and I'm settling in with Arcane now that I have enough mana ( buffed mid 80's).
I am thinking of trying some 10 man raids- ( grrr pugs)....
Anyone know what the first raids are ? and what your gear level should be going into them ?
Anyway - happy new year all !
Vyn
Vynestra1 wrote:
Anyone know what the first raids are ? and what your gear level should be going into them ?
You should be expected to have the vast majority of your gear be of heroic (346) ilvl before stepping into the raid content.
How hard is it for you guys to get (remotely close to) the hit cap? I'm focusing on pvp at the moment, and I laugh at my abysmally low hit rating (something like 2.7%, still good enough to do over 10K on bosses >_>). Just want to know what I'm in for once I start getting the gear.
"Do you know what "nemesis" means? A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent. Personified in this case by an 'orrible c*** : me."
I haven't played in going on 3 weeks (unsubscription starting on January 6th!!!) but from what I gather it requires gathering gear with hit on it and reforging your weakest stats to hit (depending on the spec). On that note, from what I read gemming for int still ends up being better point-for-point than gemming hit.
I think the Elitist Jerks fire thread said to shoot for it, but not to expect to actually hit it in the first tier of raid gear.
I went arcane for a run and saw a good 600 or so DPS improvement(though I also upgraded my robe, so part of that's gear), but I did manage to pull just shy of 11k on a boss fight, which tells me that once I get the hang of the new arcane, it might be the spec for me.
Scholar
32 posts
Don't unsubscribe - I copy your set up all the time..!!!!!!!!!!
Will miss your comments
Vyn
Will miss your comments
Vyn
He will be back when it sounds fun again. Breaks are healthy I do it every year or so lol. I haven't started working on my mage yet. I've never played fire seriously.
I was Arcane when I raided mage in Ulduar, but I was kind of hoping frost might not be to far behind as its the spec I relate to rpg wie for my UD mage toon.
I was Arcane when I raided mage in Ulduar, but I was kind of hoping frost might not be to far behind as its the spec I relate to rpg wie for my UD mage toon.
An old silent pond...
A frog jumps into the pond,
splash! Silence again.
~ Matsuo Basho
A frog jumps into the pond,
splash! Silence again.
~ Matsuo Basho
I've heard that frost isn't bad, but Puddles sometimes gets confused and tries to go off and do things on his own, so you have to keep an eye on him.
I haven't reached heroics yet on my mage but in 85 regulars I can do anywhere from 7k-11k dps depending on the fight. I tend to average around 8k dps. That's mostly in 333 gear I've picked up from dungeons and questing. Right now I'm stacking mostly crit and have molten armor glyphed and up all the time. At this point I haven't tried reaching the raid hit cap because it isn't needed until I'm raiding and don't want to waste the next couple of weeks gearing with a stat that isn't useful to me within the content I'm at. I am hit capped for heroics.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
Vynestra1 wrote:
Anyone know what the first raids are ? and what your gear level should be going into them ?
Ran across this article linked on a friend's guild's website.
http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/01/03/a-survey-of-gear-levels-in-current-10-and-25-man-cataclysm-raid/#continued
TL;DR: You're gonna want to be around 341 average ilvl for beginning raiding.
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