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Frost: Group-Only, No Solo?Follow

#1 Dec 10 2010 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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So I'm trying to solo level my DK now that Cataclysm is live, and I went to Vash'jir and I'm noticing that Frost seems ridiculously hard to solo with.

They removed 99% of our self-heal, and when I first saw that, I thought "well, they're trying to make things a little interesting, the old blood was a bit overpowered".

But now that I actually try to see it in action, I'm thinking the spec is so utterly broken, that the only feasible way you're going to use this, is in groups when you have a healer following you around pumping heals into you.

Seriously, now that I've done Vash'jir long enough to get almost a whole set of armor (minus shoulders, I'm still wearing Triumph shoulders and one trinket), I'm seeing that I can *only* heal 2500 with Death Strike, and that is only available every, I dunno, 6-8 seconds or so?

I'm taking way more damage than 2500 every 8 seconds. In fact, I've only survived battle with a naga hunter+crab pet (like the ones you see in that first large creature you go inside of, I forget her name, Nashira or something?) once and that was only because I had Army of the Dead available, and even then I had <3000HP left. Then, another one respawned ontop of it and I died immediately.

Which is another little pet peeve of mine -- I played Wrath during the first 3 days of launch. You didn't see mobs repop ontop of you like I'm seeing several days after Cataclysm's release. There wasn't even very many people there, and mobs are insta-respawning ontop of me and sometimes I can't get out of an area, or even find a place to stand so I can eat something until I get something else attacking me.

Anyways, back on topic...

How the heck are we supposed to solo with no self-healing? If I wanted to be a Warrior, I'd roll one. And from what I saw, even they get more survivability than this, and they aren't limited by runes and runic power, but by rage which is almost full at all times unless they are spamming abilities left-and-right.

Oh, and...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/moon-guard/xaelai/simple

So what am I doing wrong, exactly? I've been trying to pump more Stam in hopes of actually getting decent heals on Death Strike, which has worked to some extent (started out healing 1400 now heals 2500), but honestly, I'm starting to lose patience with this, as my pet peeve is having to sit down to eat every few kills (which is why I don't often solo with my warrior).
#2 Dec 10 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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When I start leveling my DK I'm going to be using the following [link=http://www.wowhead.com/talent#joZGcMMfuRzbuf:mMcqcMMm0]build and glyphs /link]. A number of the glyphs the new armory shows you using are for abilities that you don't have, and while soloing I'm not sure that extra disease durationg is worth it. That said the extra hit for HB, IT, Pest etc, so if survivability is a concern you might want to move those points into the blood tree and pick up Blade Barrier.

Lastly you mentioned being caught by mobs respawning right when you finished killing the last one. As a frost DK you have a number of options for bringing mobs to you, away from their spawn point where an immediate respawn should not aggro right away. If you must go into the spawn location to loot a quest object or something don't forget that the 10 second get out of jail free card provided by Hungering Cold.
#3 Dec 10 2010 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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I've been soloing as frost and it hasn't been bad. Faster than my ret pally.

I've been using blood presence for the extra survivability. If you haven't yet, get some of the new level 80 vendor food. It heals for ridiculous amounts, usually 2-3 ticks and I'm full.
#4 Dec 10 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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firstclassforever wrote:
When I start leveling my DK I'm going to be using the following [link=http://www.wowhead.com/talent#joZGcMMfuRzbuf:mMcqcMMm0]build and glyphs /link]. A number of the glyphs the new armory shows you using are for abilities that you don't have, and while soloing I'm not sure that extra disease durationg is worth it. That said the extra hit for HB, IT, Pest etc, so if survivability is a concern you might want to move those points into the blood tree and pick up Blade Barrier.


Yeah, I'm aware of the couple glyphs that are being unused; they carried over from 3.x and I've been trying to get ahold of decent glyphs, if any exist.

Quote:
Lastly you mentioned being caught by mobs respawning right when you finished killing the last one. As a frost DK you have a number of options for bringing mobs to you, away from their spawn point where an immediate respawn should not aggro right away. If you must go into the spawn location to loot a quest object or something don't forget that the 10 second get out of jail free card provided by Hungering Cold.


I try that when I can (Death Grip, I mean), but I found that half of the time I do that, a wandering mob aggros while I pull one to me, and I end up fighting two at once, instead of 1 and then 1 immediately (which is even worse).

As to food, I noticed the nice food, but in Vash'jir... it is hard to eat. They need to allow us to eat while swimming, TBH. At least in Vash'jir if nowhere else. Getting down to the ground can sometimes be hard, when you need food *now*.

I think in the end I'll just say f--- it and respec Blood so I can actually friggin heal myself. Even if it means slower leveling. At least, until I'm out of Vash'jir maybe.
#5 Dec 10 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Try moving out to Hyjal. I hated Vash'jir and am starting to move my second 80 to Hyjal. You are going to run into the same insta-respawm problem but it does seem a little easier, and you aren't swimming the entire time (note to Blizzard, we like land). Land gives you much more options and you don't have to worry about z-axis mobs as much. I might go back there and finish those quests later when I'm 83+, but it was a pain running my Shaman through Vash.

Using Unholy presence instead of Frost does make rune regen a bit quicker. Oblit and Frost Strike are hitting so hard, mobs out in Hyjal only last a few seconds so I'm not taking that much damage. Don't forget to level up your First Aid as well as they lower level bandages heal for sick amounts.

Now if I could just figure out healing on my Shaman again...




Edited, Dec 10th 2010 11:25am by Jornam
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#6 Dec 10 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, fighting multiple mobs as a Death Knight is now difficult?

WHAT'S HAPPENING?! Smiley: eek
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#7 Dec 10 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm leveling as frost and I haven't seen these problems so far...my death strikes seem to be keeping me topped off. I don't use obliterate at all outside of dungeons though. I'm at lvl 83 and have only used four food items so far.

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#8 Dec 10 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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I think I figured my problem out, someone on o-boards gave me the advice of using Lichborne and then Death Coiling oneself. I never thought to try that; nowhere does it say that Death Coil can actually be used on yourself.

I suppose that if I wanted until I had near-full RP and then popped Lichborne then gave myself a couple coils, that'd work as good as a heal.

I'll try it.

Edit: Update: Tried this out, and it works amazingly well. I can heal myself for ~20k every couple minutes. I'll save it until I need it, or a sticky situation or something.

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 6:40pm by Lyrailis
#9 Dec 11 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
nowhere does it say that Death Coil can actually be used on yourself.


Nowhere does it say you can't either, though.

And Death Coil tooltip states that it heals friendly undead. Lichborne tooltip states that you become undead for 10 seconds.

Lyrailis wrote:
I suppose that if I wanted until I had near-full RP and then popped Lichborne then gave myself a couple coils, that'd work as good as a heal.


And with the minor glyph called Death's Embrace, your healing Death Coils refund 20 RP. If you're 2/3 Runic Power Mastery, you can afford five Death Coils with a full RP bar, and you'd have 20 RP left afterwards.
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#10 Dec 12 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
Ailitardif wrote:
my death strikes seem to be keeping me topped off. I don't use obliterate at all outside of dungeons though. I'm at lvl 83 and have only used four food items so far.



^this.

Using obliterate for a free Howling Blast is nice, but it doesn't do much when you could Death Strike for some HP.

As for the Lichborne and Death Coil, that is one of the big strats DKs can use while PvPing to stay alive :p
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#11 Dec 12 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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As for the Lichborne and Death Coil, that is one of the big strats DKs can use while PvPing to stay alive :p


Well, given that I don't PvP and that I leveled from 55 to 80 as Blood in 3.x, I never read anything about using Lichborne and Death Coil in that fashion.

I suppose if you had i245+ starting Hyjal or Vash'jir, your Death Strikes would keep you topped off, but I was wearing 187s and 200s, my only 245 was a pair of shoulders.

After I finished Vash'jir, I found a vast, and absolutely huge increase to survivability; I can now take on 3-4 mobs at once (at least Hyjal mobs) and survive with at least half HP left, and that's without using Lichborne and Death Coil.

It is pretty rough starting out tho; now that I know the large difference between Hyjal and Vash'jir, I'll be starting my characters in Hyjal from now on lol.

I was expecting them to be similar to each other like Borean Tundra is vs Howling Fjord.
#12 Dec 15 2010 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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I personally prefer Hyjal to Vashj'ir. Zone seems faster, less traveling and better quest rewards. Vashj'ir gave lots of Mastery gear, though, so it was ideal for my Druid (who also had the benefit of Aquatic Form being ultra fast down there - and instant cast, even in combat).

As for Death Strike, it was changed a while back to give a fixed amount of your maximum health back, regardless of damage or diseases on the target. It used to give its damage back in health, but now it gives a certain percentage of your health. So it's right that more stamina and thus overall health would give you a bigger return from Death Strike, but a couple of rewards from Hyjal or Vashj'ir (they pretty much toss the first rewards in your face) will buff your ilvl 200 health levels (25-30k?) to ilvl 251 levels (30-40k?).

In any circumstance, though, I'd recommend Blood for leveling. It's still viable DPS and it makes soloing ezmode. Bloodworms, Death Strike buff and Rune Tap gives crazy health.

And don't forget about Death Pact. Sacrificing your ghoul every couple of minutes for a massive health return (especially if Vampiric Blood is up). It's awesome.
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#13 Dec 20 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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I highly recommend DW Frost if you haven't tried it yet. I was impressed with the damage I was doing using a nice big 2 hander, but figured I would give DW a try. It has been nothing short of astounding.

KM Oblit crits were ~22k when using my 2 hander, but DW'ing I'm getting 19k mainhand crits with 10k offhand crits. I've been amazed by the numbers I'm seeing. I'm going to try and see if I can get into some instances tonight and see what sort of numbers Recount spits out at me.

One recommendation Lyrailis, run back out to Hyjal and buy the Honored Ring. It's the one I'm wearing and is pretty nice. I'm having a hard time myself keeping track of all of the new reps and remembering to run back and purchase new gear when it becomes available.
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#14 Dec 20 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
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I've had 0 trouble leveling my dk so far as frost. Obliterate just completely stomps on things. Level 82 and its critting for 22k.

A nifty trick to use when you run into multiple casters on you. Just ams > LB > DC yourself. You absorb partial damage, plus every hit you take with ams thats magic in nature you'll get rp back. This just means free deathcoils. As unholy in pvp back in wrath ams was how most dk's would take care of locks and spriests after they apply full dots. It just meant a sh*t load of free death coils.

Basically, cooldown management is your friend when you get into a bad situation. I've yet to die on my dk due to mobs.
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#15 Dec 22 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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In case anyone was wondering how the DW Frost experiment went, I have been hitting between 9k and 9.6k DPS in instances. I just picked up some nice new weapons last night, so will try and push through a couple more instances to see if that increases it a bit.


Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 9:28am by Jornam
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#16 Jan 12 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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I'd say pretty much any spec is pretty tricky to solo at the very beginning of Vash'jir, particularly if that's your first Cataclysm zone. It's especially tricky if you're lvling your character straight through 80, rather than having had it as an 80 and acquired some Wrath endgame gear. I was soloing as Unholy, and the mobs were hitting me like a truck. I swapped to Blood until I picked up several pieces of quest gear.

I would definitely recommend starting in Hyjal.
#17 Jan 12 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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With the new Death Strike glyph, I suppose Frost and Unholy gained a wee bit of survivability.

Causes Death Strike to always heal for 20% health when in Frost/Unholy Presence.

That's the same as an unglyphed Victory Rush, except, you don't have to kill something to use it.
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#18 Jan 12 2011 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
Jornam wrote:
In case anyone was wondering how the DW Frost experiment went, I have been hitting between 9k and 9.6k DPS in instances. I just picked up some nice new weapons last night, so will try and push through a couple more instances to see if that increases it a bit.


You need to get your hit to 8% and EXP to 26. It may help.
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#19 Jan 13 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Those numbers were posted well before I got most of the heroic gear I now have. I've been consistently pulling 11k+ depending on instance.

I'm pretty sure that might drop a little with the upcoming Howling Blast nerf, but you're usually not hitting as many groups as you used to be, so it shouldn't be too significant. Main hand Oblit crits usually around 30k, Offhands 15k with Howling Blast critting 20k. It was a little over powered when hitting for the full amount on all mobs. The Death Strike upgrade in Frost/Unholy is going to be a big help with AoEs and if I happen to pull threat. WTB Aggro Dump...

All in all, quite a bit of fun.

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 1:02pm by Jornam
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#20 Jan 13 2011 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
Jornam wrote:


All in all, quite a bit of fun.



I find Frost always is.
And there is nothing like going 20-30k DPS on them Troggs in HoO. Yea they might be trash but it is still fun to look at recount and see that XD
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#21 Jan 27 2011 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I haven't played anything but Frost since Cata released and haven't any issues soloing. I don't use Death Strike at all unless I'm fightingmultiple mobs and my health starts getting low.

Frost and Unholy are DPS specs not survivability specs, use your highest damaging abilities and kill stuff fast. I can take on 3-4 mobs at the same time pretty easily. I do however keep a small supply of potions on me at all time incase stuff goes bad or I encounter the insta-pop respawns you're talking about, which happen pretty frequently.

In any case, do your normal DPS rotation, or as much of it as you can on stuff and you should be fine.

For us the best defense is a good offense.
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#22 Feb 06 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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I have no idea what Death Coil heals for at level 80+, but popping Lichborne every now and then works wonders for Northrend leveling. Anything pre-Northrend is pretty much faceroll.
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#23 Aug 16 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I solo'd as DW Frost all the way from 80-85 and started in Vashj'ir.

Granted I was using full T9 at the start, but I still wasn't having any issues leveling.

Killing stuff took a while sometimes, but popping your defensive cooldowns helps a ton. I remember going through a full DPS rotation or two on some mobs, but I was never in danger of dying from single mobs.
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#24 Aug 16 2011 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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6 months Katchii. 6 months.
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