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Best Cata Proffs?Follow

#1 Nov 19 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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apologies if this has already been covered anywhere, and im sure it will be getting updated in Theo's new Cata FAQ, but I am debating on changing my proffesions in Cata and was just after some opinions.
I currently have skinning and Leatherworking, which I levelled with and have never changed.
I am likely going to keep my skinning as its a nice little gold supplement.
LW was ok, and very useful while levelling, but it seems like a bit of a dead proffesion at its max as I can usually make just as much gold (and easier) by simply selling the leather.

So what should i have as my second proffesion? my two top choices are herbing or engineering.
herbing as i can make some more gold as i go, plus the haste boost it gives.
or engineering for the fun gadgets and possible dps boost.

I dont honestly know much about the new recipes coming up in Cata, but am just after the general opinion of what is likely to be most useful, so I can get a start on it now.

Many thanks
#2 Nov 19 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Skinning and LW are pretty much the worst, for the record.

LW was alright, since you got cheap leg kits, but skinning's crit bonus has never been helpful or in any way optimal. Herbalism's secondary ability (Lifeblood?) is far superior now that it gives haste and a hot.

Pretty much what you'll find is that these professions are approximately equal:

Alchemy
BS
Inscription
Engineering
etc

and JC is superior to the rest in terms of DPS (via unique epic gems).

Basically JC is better than every other profession, and in terms of gathering professions, Herbalism > Skinning > Mining, but gathering professions suck.

PvPers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Enchanting, PvEers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Inscription or JC/LW or JC/Enchanting. Alchemy works too.
#3 Nov 20 2010 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Skinning and LW are pretty much the worst, for the record.

LW was alright, since you got cheap leg kits, but skinning's crit bonus has never been helpful or in any way optimal. Herbalism's secondary ability (Lifeblood?) is far superior now that it gives haste and a hot.

Pretty much what you'll find is that these professions are approximately equal:

Alchemy
BS
Inscription
Engineering
etc

and JC is superior to the rest in terms of DPS (via unique epic gems).

Basically JC is better than every other profession, and in terms of gathering professions, Herbalism > Skinning > Mining, but gathering professions suck.

PvPers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Enchanting, PvEers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Inscription or JC/LW or JC/Enchanting. Alchemy works too.


LW is pnzor. Theo lies.

Theo needs to get his read back on. Last I checked it was LW and JC(?) with Engin being possibly #2 for the utility.

Gathering profs are the worst for min/max. From there straight up it is, I'm drunkish so goin on memory from the other day, LW-JC-BS-TL-IN/AL. Don't quote me but I defiantly recall LW being #1 last time I killed time perusing ej rogue forums. With Enig being behind in raw numbers but likely still awesome from utility. As utility has no number but is awesome none the less.

Bacabakabowwow
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#4 Nov 20 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Skinning and LW are pretty much the worst, for the record.

LW was alright, since you got cheap leg kits, but skinning's crit bonus has never been helpful or in any way optimal. Herbalism's secondary ability (Lifeblood?) is far superior now that it gives haste and a hot.

Pretty much what you'll find is that these professions are approximately equal:

Alchemy
BS
Inscription
Engineering
etc

and JC is superior to the rest in terms of DPS (via unique epic gems).

Basically JC is better than every other profession, and in terms of gathering professions, Herbalism > Skinning > Mining, but gathering professions suck.

PvPers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Enchanting, PvEers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Inscription or JC/LW or JC/Enchanting. Alchemy works too.


LW is pnzor. Theo lies.

Theo needs to get his read back on. Last I checked it was LW and JC(?) with Engin being possibly #2 for the utility.

Gathering profs are the worst for min/max. From there straight up it is, I'm drunkish so goin on memory from the other day, LW-JC-BS-TL-IN/AL. Don't quote me but I defiantly recall LW being #1 last time I killed time perusing ej rogue forums. With Enig being behind in raw numbers but likely still awesome from utility. As utility has no number but is awesome none the less.

Bacabakabowwow

I do read. It's unknown what will be the best in Cata, but currently JC is the overall best, as with LW you'll trade off 65 Mastery for 130 Agi.

On live, it doesn't matter because raids are so easy that you should be able to faceroll. Looking at the optimal setup in Cata, It's very hard to say that LW is the outright best, based on leg kit availability.

JC gives 81 Agi, BS, Inscription, and Enchanting give 80 Agi; LW gives 130 at the cost of 65 Mastery. If Mastery is crap, LW will be great, but Mastery likely isn't crap.

Basically if each point of Mastery is worth less than 0.769 Agi, LW will be the overall best (as LW will need the leg kit to account for the 65 Mastery lost and then make up 80-81 Agi to stay even with the other professions). If Mastery doesn't keep up, I'd say that LW is a marginally better choice, but not by much.

Sup now?! Smiley: schooled
#5 Nov 20 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Skinning and LW are pretty much the worst, for the record.

LW was alright, since you got cheap leg kits, but skinning's crit bonus has never been helpful or in any way optimal. Herbalism's secondary ability (Lifeblood?) is far superior now that it gives haste and a hot.

Pretty much what you'll find is that these professions are approximately equal:

Alchemy
BS
Inscription
Engineering
etc

and JC is superior to the rest in terms of DPS (via unique epic gems).

Basically JC is better than every other profession, and in terms of gathering professions, Herbalism > Skinning > Mining, but gathering professions suck.

PvPers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Enchanting, PvEers should be JC/Engineering or JC/Inscription or JC/LW or JC/Enchanting. Alchemy works too.


LW is pnzor. Theo lies.

Theo needs to get his read back on. Last I checked it was LW and JC(?) with Engin being possibly #2 for the utility.

Gathering profs are the worst for min/max. From there straight up it is, I'm drunkish so goin on memory from the other day, LW-JC-BS-TL-IN/AL. Don't quote me but I defiantly recall LW being #1 last time I killed time perusing ej rogue forums. With Enig being behind in raw numbers but likely still awesome from utility. As utility has no number but is awesome none the less.

Bacabakabowwow

I do read. It's unknown what will be the best in Cata, but currently JC is the overall best, as with LW you'll trade off 65 Mastery for 130 Agi.

On live, it doesn't matter because raids are so easy that you should be able to faceroll. Looking at the optimal setup in Cata, It's very hard to say that LW is the outright best, based on leg kit availability.

JC gives 81 Agi, BS, Inscription, and Enchanting give 80 Agi; LW gives 130 at the cost of 65 Mastery. If Mastery is crap, LW will be great, but Mastery likely isn't crap.

Basically if each point of Mastery is worth less than 0.769 Agi, LW will be the overall best (as LW will need the leg kit to account for the 65 Mastery lost and then make up 80-81 Agi to stay even with the other professions). If Mastery doesn't keep up, I'd say that LW is a marginally better choice, but not by much.

Sup now?! Smiley: schooled


Then why the hatred of LW in the other post?

My rogue is Mining/Skinning as a side note.
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#6 Nov 20 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Then why the hatred of LW in the other post?

Eh, I was pretty much using hyperbole.

I even said at the end of the post that JC/LW was a viable (and good) choice.
#7 Nov 20 2010 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Then why the hatred of LW in the other post?

Eh, I was pretty much using hyperbole.

I even said at the end of the post that JC/LW was a viable (and good) choice.


You and your fancy words.

Agility is shaping up to be roughly twice as good as mastery, well for Assassination at least. clicky that theo probably read all ready but others likely haven't

No one does Sub math, it makes me sad as I am lazy.
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#8 Nov 20 2010 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Then why the hatred of LW in the other post?

Eh, I was pretty much using hyperbole.

I even said at the end of the post that JC/LW was a viable (and good) choice.


You and your fancy words.

Agility is shaping up to be roughly twice as good as mastery, well for Assassination at least. clicky that theo probably read all ready but others likely haven't

No one does Sub math, it makes me sad as I am lazy.

Predictable since Assassination Mastery is so underwhelming. I would expect Combat and Sub Mastery to be a lot better (especially Sub, since Evis is such a huge part of damage).

I wish they would change Assassination Mastery, but I'll probably be PvEing as Sub anyway so whatever. Smiley: rolleyes
#9 Nov 20 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Then why the hatred of LW in the other post?

Eh, I was pretty much using hyperbole.

I even said at the end of the post that JC/LW was a viable (and good) choice.


You and your fancy words.

Agility is shaping up to be roughly twice as good as mastery, well for Assassination at least. clicky that theo probably read all ready but others likely haven't

No one does Sub math, it makes me sad as I am lazy.

Predictable since Assassination Mastery is so underwhelming. I would expect Combat and Sub Mastery to be a lot better (especially Sub, since Evis is such a huge part of damage).

I wish they would change Assassination Mastery, but I'll probably be PvEing as Sub anyway so whatever. Smiley: rolleyes


Don't forget Rupture for the PvE Sub folks. I can easily seeing Sub desire Mastery especially in later tiers of gear with higher combat ratings. Same idea for Combat but for T11 I doubt it will be the case.
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#10 Nov 24 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Default
Well, i dont know about you, but i will be keeping my beloved subtlety for sure! :)
#11 Nov 27 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless there's a Mastery enchant in Cata that wowhead is missing, the LW bracer chant is replacing either 65 crit or 65 haste. Just going by the weights Horse linked, 65 crit is about equal to 30.25 Agi. LW effectively gives you 100 Agi, compared to only 81 with JC, or 80 with BS.
#12 Nov 27 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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AstarintheDruid wrote:
Unless there's a Mastery enchant in Cata that wowhead is missing, the LW bracer chant is replacing either 65 crit or 65 haste. Just going by the weights Horse linked, 65 crit is about equal to 30.25 Agi. LW effectively gives you 100 Agi, compared to only 81 with JC, or 80 with BS.

The 65 crit is the worst of the new bracer enchants for rogues. There's also 50 Expertise and 50 hit as well as 65 haste, all of which are better than crit.

Those numbers are all Assassination, by the way. We have no idea what numbers will be for Sub, and only a general idea for Combat.

It's still too early to write off LW completely, but it's also too early to anoint it as the best profession for PvE min/maxing.
#13 Dec 02 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Noc posted this EJ link in another thread, it looks like Agi is the runaway leader for stat values. For anyone interested in some napkin math until Theo does the heavy lifting in the sticky. In order of EP value:

Leatherworking: Draconic Embossment - Agility, 130 Agility. Replaces 65 crit, 65 haste, 50 hit, or 50 expertise. Yellow hit is the highest-valued secondary stat, but there is more than enough hit rating on iLevel 359 gear to reach the yellow hit cap of 481 with 2/3 Precision. This replaces 65 haste (78 EP) for Assassination, Combat (97.5 EP), and Sub (84.5 EP). 130 Agility is worth 338 EP for Assassination (net gain of 260 EP), 351 for Combat (net gain of 253.5), and 455 EP for Sub (net gain of 370.5).

Jewelcrafting: 3 Delicate Chimera Eyes (+67 Agi) replace 3 Delicate Inferno Rubies (+40 Agi). Net gain of 81 Agi, or 210.6 EP for Assassination, 218.7 EP for Combat, and 283.5 EP for Sub, ~81% of the value of LW.

Blacksmithing: 2 extra Delicate Inferno Rubies (+40 Agi). Net gain of 80 Agi.

Inscription: Swiftsteel shoulder enchant (130 Agi, 25 Mastery) vs Greater Inscription of Shattered Crystal (50 Agi, 25 Mastery). Net gain of 80 Agility.

Enchanting: Enchant Ring: Agility (+40 Agi x2). Again, net gain of 80 Agility.

Tailoring: Swordguard Embroidery (Rank 2). 1000 AP for 15 sec, estimated 25% uptime yields ~250 AP on average. This replaces Enchant Cloak: Greater Critical Strike (+65 Crit). 65 crit is worth 58.5 EP for Assassination (gain of 191.5 EP), 61.75 for Combat (188.25 EP), and 71.5 for Sub(178.5 EP). Net value is 178.5-191.5 EP. The closest this gets to 81 Agi is for Assassination, where the difference is only 19.5 EP in favor of JC, or 16.9 for all the +80 Agi professions.

Herbalism: Lifeblood (Rank 8), 480 haste for 20 sec every 2 minutes. Used on CD and neglecting being in sync with other DPS CDs, average value of 80 haste rating. Value is 96-120 EP.

Skinning: Master of Anatomy (Rank 7), 80 crit rating. EP value of 72-88.

Engineering: Tazik Shocker, no current ratings boost (for melee DPS) like the Hyperspeed Accelerators. 4800 average damage on a 2 min CD, on a 5:59 where you get 3 uses, ~40 DPS increase. For 6:05 fight where you could reasonably get 4 uses, ~52.6 DPS. EP value unknown.

Mining: Stamina, no DPS value.

TL;DR:

For Assassination, Leatherworking is worth 260 EP, Jewelcrafting is worth 210.6 EP, and the various 80 Agi professions are worth 208 EP.

For Combat, Leatherworking is worth 253 EP, Jewelcrafting is worth 218.7 EP, and the other +80 Agi are worth 216 EP.

For Sub, Leatherworking is worth 370.5(!) EP, Jewelcrafting is worth 283.5 EP, and the +80 Agi professions are worth 280 EP.

Tailoring is about 10% behind BS/Insc/Enchanting, with Herbalism and Skinning being significantly behind, and Mining being worth 0.

Engineering is a modest increase of 40-50 DPS and hasn't been given an EP value as of yet.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 5:55pm by AstarintheDruid

Edit to fix a couple incorrect links.

Edited, Dec 6th 2010 6:07pm by AstarintheDruid
#14 Dec 02 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Also keep in mind that Sub is looking like it will not be viable in any serious progression, as it's regularly parses behind Mutilate and Combat by 5-10% (generally closer to 10%), and has a much more complicated rotation, making it harder to get the full damage potential that the spec could provide.

But yes, it looks like LW will be the best for min/maxing.
#15 Dec 03 2010 at 4:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
But yes, it looks like LW will be the best for min/maxing.


:P

Hi.
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#16 Dec 03 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
But yes, it looks like LW will be the best for min/maxing.


:P

Hi.

"I TOLD YOU IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE THIS WHEN NO ONE HAD ANY SOLID MATH DONE ON THE SUBJECT, WHERE'S MY RESPECT FOR SPEAKING OUT OF MY *** NOW, HUH?!?!?!"

Smiley: lol
#17 Dec 03 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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7,732 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
But yes, it looks like LW will be the best for min/maxing.


:P

Hi.

"I TOLD YOU IT WAS GONNA BE LIKE THIS WHEN NO ONE HAD ANY SOLID MATH DONE ON THE SUBJECT, WHERE'S MY RESPECT FOR SPEAKING OUT OF MY *** NOW, HUH?!?!?!"

Smiley: lol


You funny.
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#18 Dec 05 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Default
I was planning on going mining/skinning as a money maker. I'm interested in doing some pvp, so my question basically is, are rogues dependent upon professions to do well in pvp or is their dps good enough as it stands unmodified by profs to do well in bgs. Oh also, whats the best racial for pvp?

thanks

Edited, Dec 5th 2010 3:31pm by yaxq
#19 Dec 05 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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yaxq wrote:
I was planning on going mining/skinning as a money maker. I'm interested in doing some pvp, so my question basically is, are rogues dependent upon professions to do well in pvp or is their dps good enough as it stands unmodified by profs to do well in bgs. Oh also, whats the best racial for pvp?

thanks

Edited, Dec 5th 2010 3:31pm by yaxq

HI, I'M THE ANSWER YOU WANT, AND I'M IN THE ******* STICKY.

Also, look at some rogues that do PvP and check out their professions via the armory. A pattern starts to emerge.
#20 Dec 06 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm all happy about LW since I plan to roll a Worgen and I dig the fact that they don't need a knife.
Plus I haven't done LW in a looong time.... Since EUR Beta I think so yeah.
#21 Dec 06 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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Konuvis wrote:
I'm all happy about LW since I plan to roll a Worgen and I dig the fact that they don't need a knife.
Plus I haven't done LW in a looong time.... Since EUR Beta I think so yeah.

Uh, Worgen don't need a knife for skinning, not LW.

But I assume you mean that you'll do skinning/LW, so your post makes a little bit more sense.

Personally, I'd do skinning/LW to 525, then drop skinning and do JC to 525, if I were going to min/max for PvE.
#22 Dec 06 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Konuvis wrote:
I'm all happy about LW since I plan to roll a Worgen and I dig the fact that they don't need a knife.
Plus I haven't done LW in a looong time.... Since EUR Beta I think so yeah.

Uh, Worgen don't need a knife for skinning, not LW.

But I assume you mean that you'll do skinning/LW, so your post makes a little bit more sense.

Personally, I'd do skinning/LW to 525, then drop skinning and do JC to 525, if I were going to min/max for PvE.


That's what my druid did with a DK to farm ore as it is expensive to level JC in the late Azeroth stages, Outland to a lesser degree. Buying your way through Northrend JC is, well was, fairly cheap.

Depending on leather market you could drop skinning sooner. Never mind new leather will be insanely overpriced for a while. Don't drop skinning until you can power JC up to the new JC-only gems in a few hours.
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#23 Dec 06 2010 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Konuvis wrote:
I'm all happy about LW since I plan to roll a Worgen and I dig the fact that they don't need a knife.
Plus I haven't done LW in a looong time.... Since EUR Beta I think so yeah.

Uh, Worgen don't need a knife for skinning, not LW.

But I assume you mean that you'll do skinning/LW, so your post makes a little bit more sense.

Personally, I'd do skinning/LW to 525, then drop skinning and do JC to 525, if I were going to min/max for PvE.


That's what my druid did with a DK to farm ore as it is expensive to level JC in the late Azeroth stages, Outland to a lesser degree. Buying your way through Northrend JC is, well was, fairly cheap.

Depending on leather market you could drop skinning sooner. Never mind new leather will be insanely overpriced for a while. Don't drop skinning until you can power JC up to the new JC-only gems in a few hours.

Yeah, I definitely agree. Waiting to drop skinning until you can powerlevel JC is the only way I'd level another profession.
#24 Dec 07 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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yeah I like to be self reliant for the most part so Skinning/LW will be it for a while.

Plus since I'm restating from scratch I have 0g and no alts... so having 2 crafting professions won't be possible for a while.
I did JC with my DK in WotLK and there were a few gaps that were tough to level. Iirc around 280 was a major pain, even with mining.
#25 Dec 08 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

Uh, Worgen don't need a knife for skinning, not LW.


Is that true? I ask as I've rolled a Worgen Rogue and gone Skinning / Herb as profs. I couldn't skin any mobs last night and I assumed it was because I hadn't puchased a skinning knife. I bought one but logged afterwards so didn't get to try it.

I only went skin/herb as i already have high level production profs. low level gathering only to suppliment those!
#26 Dec 08 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Barboaza wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Uh, Worgen don't need a knife for skinning, not LW.


Is that true? I ask as I've rolled a Worgen Rogue and gone Skinning / Herb as profs. I couldn't skin any mobs last night and I assumed it was because I hadn't puchased a skinning knife. I bought one but logged afterwards so didn't get to try it.

I only went skin/herb as i already have high level production profs. low level gathering only to suppliment those!


Maybe you have to be in Worg form?
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