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#1 Oct 12 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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A'ssholes.

I went in and played my Paladin tonight on live. Hated it, hated it hard.


/sadface cause I didn't want to hate it

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#2 Oct 13 2010 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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Not saying you are wrong. (I have only installed it and set up some action bars while hitting the trainers....)

But why? Why do you hate it.

Also - as I only tank (DPS and Healing are horrible sub-specs that I switch between every few months without ever really learning/mastering) - What is healing like???




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#3 Oct 13 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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Healing is like your previous healing, except someone raped your skills with a splintered fence post.
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#4 Oct 13 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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What Borsuk said. Aside from pallies no longer being OP on fights like Saurfang, what is so terrible about them?
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#5 Oct 13 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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How is ret dps? Better or worse than before?
#6 Oct 13 2010 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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Paradigm change.


Holy Light and Flash of Light changes. Slow long small heals from HL, fast big heals from FoL. Pretty much slows down the pace of healing, also take the clutch out of it and makes it a game of watching blue bars.

That and if you are in a raid with proper healers you are only doing about 30% of what a shaman or priest is doing right now in terms of healing.
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#7 Oct 14 2010 at 1:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tried it some tonight. Absolutely hated it. Healing, that is. Having our main heal torn apart and stitched back together with none of what made it work so well, in addition to having our regen gutted, has not made for happy paladin healing. Light of Dawn, which I was prepared to heartily dislike, is at least shiny and therefore amusing, if only for the reactions on Vent of "What on earth was THAT??" As the luster wears off of that new toy, I'm not sure what, precisely, I'll find fun with my holy pally anymore. My confidence as a healer is shot. I could keep people alive, but it was a scramble rather than a fairly easy time of it. It's not the end of the world; the sky is not falling and I am not going to go cry in a corner, but it's a lot rougher than I was expecting trying to find out how to make the best of what meager tools I now possess. This will definitely take some time for relearning.
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#8 Oct 14 2010 at 3:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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I find something wrong with Protection. There just seems to be some fundamental wrongness about it now. I know we're supposed to be shying away from mass pulls, but running randoms two nights running and I'm having threat generation issues that aren't on my main target. Getting the maximum use out of Shield of Righteousness is a bit of a pain as it theoretically will take you about 15 seconds to build up three charges of Holy Power, and with the 50% chance of Sacred Duty proc'ing you may not even get the benefit.

You have to use the Shield of Righteousness to get Holy Shield.
You have to use Word of Glory to get Holy Shield.
Both abilities consume your Holy Points and only one of them generates threat that isn't laughable. And then only when you manage to use three points.

The talent "Grand Crusader" applies to both Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous. But as soon as you get Hammer, it supersedes Crusader Strike as they both share the same cooldown.

...My opinion stinks.
#9 Oct 14 2010 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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I am having the same exact problem as Nino described. I hate the new changes so far, in relation to the prot build and threat generation. As well as what Bodhi said, this new "paradigm change" is bs.
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#10 Oct 14 2010 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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As to what nino and wire just said - I noticed the same thing last night.

I went to tank a heroic and lost (Killed) someone because of agro. I found myself looking at my keys - looking at my abilities. I realize there is a muscle memory thing to changing, but I was looking to figure out the CD and the stacks oh Holy Power.

Am I supposed to Word of Glory or Shield of Righteousness? Why the **** is SoR tied to Holy Power. Why can't it do minimal damage (Something like 1/2 what it did prior to the patch), but amplify it with Holy Power...??? I feel like I don't have buttons to push while I wait on CS to stack 3 times....


No opinion on Heals/Ret (Don't do it)
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#11 Oct 14 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I have not yet had enough tiem to really experience the changes, but the only heroic random i did was not exactly fun to tank.
Still getting used to the non mana based stuff...which is clunky to say the least.
threat generation seemed to be suck city, but i didnt see the health anyone on the group drop below 80% at any time.
not a fan of the changes, but i have not had much time to put it all through the paces and/or get used to it.
#12 Oct 14 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Good
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All tanks have had their aoe tps nerfed. Right now there still seems to be too much dps aoe and that combined with the Wrath mindset of aoeing everything down is what is making it difficult for tanks to hold threat. I doubt that aoe TPS will be increased since Blizzard's idea is that we will be relying on CC in dungeons come Cata. Best thing to do is warn your pug at the start of a run that tank aoe threat has been nerfed and that if they die it is their own fault.

I really, really like the change that was made to consecrate and holy wrath. I remember so many times mobs running through my consecrate between ticks on fights like Thorim or Sarth (as an offtank) and thinking to myself "If only we had a snap aoe tool like a Warrior's Thunderclap!" Now we have it in Holy Wrath. I think that change combined with not having a set rotation has kinda made us more like a Warrior tank now. Our Ardent Defender is now a better version of Last Stand (now has to be manually used).

I dont like that we have to drop points into Divinity to move further down the tree but I suppose come the changes to the way healing will be in Cata it will probably become part of our core MT spec. Apparently we will be able to get to 102.4 again at 85 with the way mastery works so it might actually become a useful talent. The change to how much block mitigates (30%) is nice too on fights where previously having block made no dent in damage taken.

Edited, Oct 15th 2010 4:16am by arthoriuss
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#13 Oct 15 2010 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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After some changes - I tried tanking again last night and it worked ok.

I think the biggest thing is going to be the DPS learning wtf is up. I play a mage (The biggest AOE ***** class out there) - so I know how wrath instances work - Tank pulls - Spam Blizzard or Flamestrike (Or both)...

But the DPS don't get it yet. I can pretty much do everything I used to do - it's not as easy - but it can be done. But they just need to mellow out on the front-running me...

I used to not mind when a lock or a S.priest started ticking the DoTs as I ran in because I knew my threat would quickly pull everyone to me. Same with a mage or Boomkin - Previously I'd see shards of ice or clouds gathering over my pull area and it didn't matter. Now I struggle to pick up those guys.

Oh well - F' em. They'll just die and have to learn.


Oh a side (mage) note - I put sheep back on my Keybindings.
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#14 Oct 15 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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As far as my prot spec goes, I think it's fine. My DPS in 5-mans is still first or second, and apparently I was first DPS on 10-man Blood Princes. I need to leave my own recount on instead of asking, though.

Threat problems only happen when someone attacks the wrong target. In PoS, I was doing 4k, a DK was at 6.5k, and a hunter and mage were maxing at 2k. The hunter and mage were pulling off me, and it was usually that fifth caster way off in the back I'm waiting for Avenger's Shield to hit with. The DK never went over my threat.

For holy, I really can't see the problems people are having. Maybe I'm too distracted by the new exorcism spam. I've been beating DPS as a healer.. and a tank. It's awesome. But I haven't raided as holy yet. VoA doesn't count, and I had recount off anyway so I have no idea how I did. No one died, and it seemed like I was useful.. I don't know, I'll have to see next week when my normal 10-man restarts ICC.


However, I hate Holy Power. It doesn't do anything useful. For prot, at least until 81, the only use for HP is SoR. If SoR had a 9 second CD and simply hit for 120% AP at all times, there wouldn't be any difference to the rotation. It's not any better for holy. Word of Glory hits somewhere between Holy Light and Divine Light, while a crit HL is pretty much the same. A crit holy shock makes HL cast at less than a second, so WoG being instant doesn't mean much.

I tried ret on a 63 alt, because I don't want to spend all the gold to respec twice, but divine storm is terrible and not worth the talent point. Again, they could have put Templars Verdict on a 13.5 second cooldown that scales with haste like CS does plus procs to reduce the CD like the old T10 did for DS and it would have been the same.
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