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Volley removed?! Yup.Follow

#1 Aug 24 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Default
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Volley removed from the game (And of course when I don't report a missing skill because I think it's a bug, it's actually gone for real)
It's gone. We want to make Multi-Shot the spell hunters use for AE.

Channeling a spell that makes arrows fall out of the sky doesn't feel like a hunter ability and doesn't even really match the name of the spell.

Only class with a minimal range and now without volley only class without an aoe /shakes head
You realize "only class" claims are viewed as a success by the developers. The classes are too similar as it is. (Source)

Most seem to think they simply removed it & that we will be using multishot instead.
Yep. Volley was edging out Mult-Shot, even though we think the latter is the more interesting ability. Volley felt too much like a magic spell and not something a hunter was doing with her bow or gun. (Source)


Well being able to AoE was fun well it lasted. I personally think its a ridiculous change just to make the classes feel "different". It would work better if Multi didn't have the cooldown it does, or if it didn't share the cooldown ith Aimed.
#2 Aug 24 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
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It would work better if Multi didn't have the cooldown it does, or if it didn't share the cooldown ith Aimed.


Multishot doesn't have a CD in beta, nor does it share one with Aimed Shot. It does 50% weapon damage plus an additional amount to up to 3 targets for 40 focus.

The change makes perfect sense, actually. For one thing, you don't AoE much in Cataclysm. And when you do, pack sizes are small. Plus, the concept that divides physical classes from magic ones in WoW is that casters don't auto-attack--they concentrate all of their damage into spells/abilities. Physical classes see smaller numbers as a result, but do more constant damage. Volley, on the other hand, was just Blizzard or Rain of Fire with a lower mana cost.

And you need to remember that there is no longer a dead zone for abilities in Cata, so you can Multishot 3 mobs standing right next to you. You couldn't do that with Volley. Well, you could, but they'd hit you while you were channeling.

I think it's a good change. The numbers will potentially need tweaking, but that will come out in time.
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#3 Aug 24 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:

And you need to remember that there is no longer a dead zone for abilities in Cata, so you can Multishot 3 mobs standing right next to you. You couldn't do that with Volley. Well, you could, but they'd hit you while you were channeling.

Didn't that go away in the last beta push? I saw this purported blue quote from a beta blogger over the weekend:

"We did not remove the minimum range of hunter shots intentionally. If it’s happening, it’s a bug."
#4 Aug 24 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Quite possible. But all the Hunter tooltips say 40 yds, not 5-40 yds. And I can use shots in melee range on my new and high-level hunters.

However, you do still auto-attack rather than auto-shoot when within 5 yards. So it is possible that GC was only talking about that when we see it. We'll see with time, I suppose.
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#5 Aug 24 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty sure the dead range is still in place from what I recently read. Hunters are supposed to shoot arrows not jam them in their opponents face at virtually no range.

But I don't really like the change either, while it's not a drastic change either way it was just nice to have and use for those massive ICC trash packs and such.
#6 Aug 24 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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The thing is that those massive packs don't exist anymore, so it's a non issue. And all classes took huge nerfs to their AoEs anyway. For instance, diseases spread by a DK's Pestilence now do only 50% damage.
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#7 Aug 24 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh ok, well at least the took off the cd to Multi-Shot and have it not share a cd with aimed, there are some talents in MM that deal with multi that without an upgrade to multi probably wouldn't be taken otherwise.
#8 Aug 25 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I didn't know about the cooldown being removed either. I guess I better make sure to finish my rep grinds like the Argent Dawn because it is going to take forever having to single target everything.
#9 Aug 25 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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Trap Launcher + Explosive Trap allows you to AoE in low-health, large group scenarios.
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#10 Aug 25 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
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There are so many things that make Volley and Multi different, to say that they are both AOE and you might as well get rid of the other is simply untrue. 1st of Multi shot is not "Area of Effect", it’s a multi-target spell, it only affects 3 targets, no more.

* Volley is best for groups of more then 3, Multi is best for 2 or 3 mobs.
* Volley can be used at melee range, Multi is only good at range,
* Volley can hit things that would otherwise be out of LoS, Multi can only be used when you have LoS.
* Volley can shoot behind you, Multi you need to be facing the target.

"Frostheim" wrote:
I think it’s unfair to blame multi-shot’s lack of use on volley. Volley isn’t why we didn’t use multi-shot — we didn’t use multi-shot because even with 3 targets it does less damage than cobra shot, explosive shot, or Kill Command (in every spec). There was no reason to use it, any spec with the focus to spare could just hit kill command and do more total damage than a 3-target multi-shot.

However, the Serpent Spread talent now makes multi-shot worthwhile for SV. I don’t feel like barrage makes it worthwhile yet for MM, and BM’s got nothing (especially with their stronger Kill Command).


So no, sorry Idiggory, but the change do not make perfect sense, at the moment.

Edited, Aug 25th 2010 9:43pm by Darcubus
#11 Aug 25 2010 at 11:54 PM Rating: Good
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There are so many things that make Volley and Multi different, to say that they are both AOE and you might as well get rid of the other is simply untrue. 1st of Multi shot is not "Area of Effect", it’s a multi-target spell, it only affects 3 targets, no more.

* Volley is best for groups of more then 3, Multi is best for 2 or 3 mobs.
* Volley can be used at melee range, Multi is only good at range,
* Volley can hit things that would otherwise be out of LoS, Multi can only be used when you have LoS.
* Volley can shoot behind you, Multi you need to be facing the target.


First of all, Multi Shot is being reworked. If it needs to hit more targets, it will hit more targets. That said, packs in Cata basically never exceed 5 mobs from what I can tell, and even getting that many is rare. And you don't AoE those packs. Whenever you are using AoE, it's because you don't need to CC, and those are basically packs of 3 mobs. Multishot in its current form is 50% damage +226 to each.

Now we get to something more important, and it is one of the more annoying and stupid thing people whine about--whenever a skill has limitations. You are a ranged class. You are designed to do damage at range. Yes, MS requires you to get out of melee range to use. But it SHOULD. Volley should have to, for that matter, it was just much harder to code. A Warrior isn't able to do AoE damage at range, and that fact alone isn't an argument for why he should be able to.

Hunters already have a high enough ability to hit things out of your LoS, without Volley. You don't need more. And, frankly, to be able to is a fairly broken mechanic anyway.

And your last point only matters if you are a keyboard turner, which is perfectly fine with me.

Quote:
Quote:
"I think it’s unfair to blame multi-shot’s lack of use on volley. Volley isn’t why we didn’t use multi-shot — we didn’t use multi-shot because even with 3 targets it does less damage than cobra shot, explosive shot, or Kill Command (in every spec). There was no reason to use it, any spec with the focus to spare could just hit kill command and do more total damage than a 3-target multi-shot.

However, the Serpent Spread talent now makes multi-shot worthwhile for SV. I don’t feel like barrage makes it worthwhile yet for MM, and BM’s got nothing (especially with their stronger Kill Command).


So no, sorry Idiggory, but the change do not make perfect sense, at the moment.


First of all, AoE ONLY happens in Cata when you are just burning stuff down and don't need to worry. It's not the norm.

Second of all, numbers aren't being balanced at all right now, realistically.

Third of all, ALL AoE skills are performing low right now. ALL of them. Most pulls that were AoEable are best STed down by all classes atm, because of this. Blizzard did so to try and force people to break their WotLK must-AoE-everything mentality.

Multishot is being reworked so that it will perform properly in the environment. In Blizz's own words, just the fact that you lose the ability to break a rogue out of stealth easily, for example, doesn't make them feel it is warranted.
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#12 Aug 28 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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I understand they are removing the huge AoE requirements in Cataclysm, but lets remember that the old dungeons and raids will still exist. They are nerfing AoE, but Onyxia will still have Whelps, Icecrown will still have trash etc.
#13 Aug 28 2010 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I understand they are removing the huge AoE requirements in Cataclysm, but lets remember that the old dungeons and raids will still exist. They are nerfing AoE, but Onyxia will still have Whelps, Icecrown will still have trash etc.


Moot point. All instances 1-60 have been revamped for the new system. BC instances have always been set up so that using CC was probably a good idea. And there's nothing stopping you from using CC in Wrath dungeons--you only did it because you could put out massive numbers.

As for raid content, come cata you won't be doing it at an appropriate level anymore. The fact that AoE is 50% less in Cata doesn't mean crap when you are 5 levels higher and geared.

Realistically, you'll never be just AoEing through any dungeon anymore. Healers don't have the mana or output for it.

[EDIT]

It's cool that every single post I made in this thread was rated down.

Edited, Aug 29th 2010 2:30am by idiggory
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#14 Aug 30 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
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EbanySalamonderiel wrote:
I understand they are removing the huge AoE requirements in Cataclysm, but lets remember that the old dungeons and raids will still exist. They are nerfing AoE, but Onyxia will still have Whelps, Icecrown will still have trash etc.

Ghostcrawler wrote:
Our current version of Multi-Shot has not target cap. It's a little like Fan of Knives.

Source

In general, Blizzard is lowering the number of cleaves (3-4 target attacks) in the game. See: Warrior Whirlwind and Cleave, Paladin Divine Storm, etc.

It's unlikely they'd leave one class (Hunter) with a ranged version of the current WW. So Multi-shot would be on the chopping block. But Hunter needs a true AoE attack. You have the choice of Multi-shot and Volley. Personally, I'm glad that Multi-shot is the one they went with, mostly because I think it's a lot cooler of an attack.
#15 Aug 30 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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yeah, choosing between an improved multi and volley there's no competition. I've run a few dungeons, and while the regular ones can be done with aoe in a large group, the heroics won't, at least at first. Also the runs go a lot smoother if the healers are killed fast. It's a nice change.
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#16 Aug 30 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
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The more I have been reading and thinking about it the idea is starting to grow on me. I think it was the line about "making it the only class without an AoE is a success" that bothered me. Now knowing the changes to multi-shot its a lot better.

btw congrats on the admin Xsarus :D
#17 Sep 05 2010 at 10:55 PM Rating: Decent
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The thing is that those massive packs don't exist anymore, so it's a non issue. And all classes took huge nerfs to their AoEs anyway. For instance, diseases spread by a DK's Pestilence now do only 50% damage.


That may be true in Cataclysm, but my hunter is 65. Unless all the instances in BC and Wrath are reworked, there is still a need for major AOE while clearing to the bosses. I would agree that from a role-playing class point of view, a dude with a gun should not be able to AOE like a mage (He should also not be able to shoot like he has a semi-automatic, but that is necessary for balance), but then his single shots and small AOE (blunderbuss, aka Multi Shot) need to have MUCH bigger potential damage. Otherwise he becomes a gimp long range paladin with a speed-bump (pet).

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#18 Sep 06 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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That may be true in Cataclysm, but my hunter is 65. Unless all the instances in BC and Wrath are reworked, there is still a need for major AOE while clearing to the bosses. I would agree that from a role-playing class point of view, a dude with a gun should not be able to AOE like a mage (He should also not be able to shoot like he has a semi-automatic, but that is necessary for balance), but then his single shots and small AOE (blunderbuss, aka Multi Shot) need to have MUCH bigger potential damage. Otherwise he becomes a gimp long range paladin with a speed-bump (pet).


It was always the case that BC instances were more effective with CC. But when players had their abilities buffed, people decided to just AoE through them. This was true for most Vanilla instances as well.

And I already said they are revamping all the instances. Not necessarily a huge one for each, no, but the number and placement of mobs, and possibly their abilities, are getting reworked.

And Multi-Shot is essentially Howling Blast now, anyway.
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#19 Sep 28 2010 at 2:57 AM Rating: Default
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This sucks.
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