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#1 Aug 19 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
Okay so I am a fresh level 80, this is my first and only toon, and I'm having some issues pulling off DPS in heroics. Let me start with saying I browsed these forums extensively and I have some ideas. I just want to know what people say, not what a sticky post says. I figure instead of listing all my different things such as gear, spec, and glyphs, I'll just link my armory like so: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sisters+of+Elune&cn=Valleyum . So I'll start with my worry, my friend who brought me into WoW again also got me into his guild once I hit 80. They're fairly casual, but have an ICC10 run every now and then. My friend said that he can get me in on these runs if I get 4 pieces of tier 9 armor. Well as you can see I got my third today, and I don't see my fourth far off, and I'm worried about my DPS. When we're dealing with trash mobs I pull 3k- 5k DPS on average using blizzard, which usually is first or second in DPS. But then we hit bosses and I'm doing 2.5k- 3k DPS max.. Now I've thought it's my build because I went FFB instead of Arcane or full fire. I was the first mage in my guild, and they all said raiding specs are arcane and fire. I found FFB really interesting in general, and went with it. But that aside, when I see my DPS meter after a boss fight I almost get embarrassed wondering if anyone else has a meter and can see how poorly I did. I feel as the glass cannon, the mage, I should be putting out much more DPS. I have a macro that boosts my DPS greatly, it combines Combustion, Icy Veins, and both my trinkets into one button, and I have to say, on trash mobs in Strat I broke 10k DPS (although that pally got A LOT on him) but still, I was happy. I also have a cast sequence macro for my rotation which consists of living bomb, scorch, living bomb. That's because scorch is a 30sec debuff, and living bomb is 12 seconds each. Keeps them all up, when they're up I spam FFB and pyro when hot streak procs. So anything you could tell me to help boost DPS would be great, I'd also like suggestions on gems for my gear, and anything you think about my spec or glyphs. Thanks a million to anyone who responds.
#2 Aug 19 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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3,157 posts
Okay, I don't even know where to start.
First of all, format your posts. See above, where I have a period, then a line break? It's called the enter key, use it.
Second, you WILL get abysmally low numbers as a FFB mage. FFB is the Frost of 3.3.x.
You have very few gems, but I see a Meta gem which is wrong, and a couple of other 'wrong' gems. I know you want advice from 'real people' but here's a shocker for you. The stickies are written by the local 'real person' mage gurus. Anything we would tell you from this point on is in there.
Here's a laundry list of things to look at in the sticky:
1. Spec! You can be a special unique snowflake if you want. You can't expect tits dps from it though. If you insist on being different than most mages and still doing decent DPS, hit up my Frost Mage FAQ. It's linked in the sticky. If you don't mind being like other mages, check out either the full Fire spec, or the Arcane spec. Arcane is the easiest spec to play in the game, just follow the instructions in the sticky.
2. GEMS
3. STAT weighting
4. ROTATION
5. THE STICKY.

There ya go.
#3 Aug 19 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
I'm going to have to agree with Jay here, but I'll give you a bit more info of where to go. I'm glad you read the sticky, but you really should follow what was written in them. Anobix does a good job of keeping them updated with every patch, so they aren't out of date.

With as low as your hit is, you really need to respec Arcane. 5% hit isn't going to cut it with any other spec, and it really doesn't cut it with Arcane either. At the very least, you need 8% hit if you have a Balance Druid with Improved Faerie Fire or a Shadow Priest with Misery talented (which they should), or 11% hit if you don't.

Jay is correct about your Meta gem. While I've seen worse initial pics, the top DPS improving meta for any spellcaster is the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond. Also, never enchant or gem for hit, stamina or intellect. For red gems, go with the pure SP gem like you have, but you really should invest in the epic gems for all sockets if you can afford it. For blue, go for the SP/Spirit gems and for yellow go for the SP/Haste gems.

I'd also recommend doing the Sons of the Hodir dailies every day until you have enough rep for the shoulder enchants. You need to get the SP enchants for both bracers and gloves, and once you get a better staff you'll want to invest in the +80 SP enchant for the staff. You also need to get your cloak enchanted with the haste bonus, and get your legs enchanted with the SP/Spirit Spellthread from a tailor. After you get the 4th piece of T9 you really want to go after the wand for your Triumph emblems. Stay away from the trinkets though, they're not very good.
#4 Aug 19 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
Ouch, harsh, I apologize on the one huge block of text, honestly, I've never used a forum before in my life.

And yeah, I knew that meta gem would come into play, and all the other gems I'm using are the best I could find in the AH. Also, I don't know if the armory isn't updated, but I got Sons of Hodir Exalted last night and applied the shoulder enchant no problem. But I will focus on all those enchants and such, and yes the Brimstone Igniter is a goal of mine, maybe even before the T9 head. Also as a side note, at this place and time in my raiding, is it wrong for me to trade frost emblems for emblems of triumph? Cause I did and felt like I shouldn't have.

And no need to make fun of me for FFB, I really had no idea, I just liked the sound of it so thats what I went with. Arcane is just another build, I've got no problem respeccing. And really, I'm down with constructive criticism, but no need to tear me apart. I would happily respec arcane if it would boost DPS. And yes my gems are a mess, and my stats need to be worked out, but for the shoddy FFB build I've got, I've got rotation down. But I've read all the hit caps and specs and everything on the sticky, all I wanted was someone to tell me what I was doing wrong, and thank you for doing so, no matter how blunt it was or if I got more criticism for more than just the game. But I thank you.
Also as a note to PigtailsOfDoom, I knew my hit would come into play in here. I know my stats and gems and everything is a mess compared to what the sticky states, I've only been raiding for about a week and been level 80 for maybe 4 days longer than that. I really don't know what I'm doing and I'm going to listen carefully to you and Jay.

Thanks for all the input, I'll get on every last one of those points. Oh and any chance I formatted this better Jay? I'm asking honestly because I still think its a mess.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 5:25pm by valleyum
#5 Aug 19 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
As was stated, read the sticky that I wrote and follow it. For your gear level you will want to play arcane, fireball isn't worth it until you can hit around 1000 crit and > 800 haste (as well as having 14% hit unbuffed).

Read the arcane thread (linked in the sticky at the top), it has pretty much all of the info that you will need there. The dps will be better as arcane in 5mans and raids until you can spec fire. Frostfire was only viable in tier7 when wotlk first came out.

For gearing, go ahead and get your 4pc together, if you have some spare gold I would pick up Merlin's Robe and the Bejeweled Wizard Bracers from the AH/Tailoring friend, as for the gems 'only getting what is on the AH' then get the raw gems and get a JC to cut them, no reason to spend money on gems that aren't what you should be using.

If you have any questions after reading the arcane thread ask them here and I will do my best to respond to it.


Edit: you posted while I was typing my response. That looks a lot more readable, the first one is a wall-o-text which is extremely hard to read. Just separate your different ideas/statements by a couple blank lines and it generally is easier to read.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 5:29pm by Anobix

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 5:37pm by Anobix
#6 Aug 19 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
Okay I've got the meta gem and these are what I see as the ones I'd want for the various colored sockets:

Yellow: Reckless Ametrine http://www.wowhead.com/item=40155

Blue: Purified Dreadstone http://www.wowhead.com/item=40133

Red: Runed Cardinal Ruby: http://www.wowhead.com/item=40113

As a note on red what is the difference between Runed Cardinal Ruby (http://www.wowhead.com/item=40113) and Runed Stormjewel (http://www.wowhead.com/item=45883). Because they have the same stat bonus but even the price you can sell them to a vendor is different, along with the prices in the AH.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions and such I just really want to get this whole thing down. I love playing a mage but I also want to do justice to the role of a mage.

Edit: So this is how I indicate why I edited something ha! Got it now. But seem were on the same page Anobix, when I was working out my next post you responded. And as a note it means a lot that you even bothered responding to that wall-o-text, I'm starting to get the feeling that my grip on playing a mage is non existent.

But onto my response to your post, I will remember those numbers, but if fireball isn't worth it until having those stats, does that mean fireball surpasses arcane at that point or that is just when it is even an option? That aside I am about to respec arcane, I should have just stuck with the traditional option from the start..

On the note about gems/ gear, buying raw sounds like a great plan, and I'll poke around my guild and see if any of them are Tailors. And before respeccing I'll wander back to the arcane thread (it's already open) and finish reading up on that. Thank you for the response and I'll get back to you on those.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 5:52pm by valleyum
#7 Aug 19 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, Arcane will definitely boost your dps at this point. For one, the rotation is stupid easy so it's hard to mess it up. Also the hit, as was mentioned has a pretty big impact on your dps as well.

As far as those two different SP gems go, I've never even seen the Stormjewel one before. If they have the same stats I'd say go for the cheaper one.

Also, in your spare time I'd recommend looking at videos for the fights in ICC. Since you have no previous experience in raiding, it's going to be very important for you to do your research and know what to expect. Not that ICC is overly hard now with the buff, but it can still provide a challenge for you to stay alive as a new raider.
#8 Aug 19 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
Yes I wouldn't step into ICC without knowing just what to avoid and such, my friend helps me in heroics I don't know by guiding me through vent. It is a massive help.

And yeah the Stormjewel pops up a lot, I've never understood the 2 different sell to vendor values, but I got a Runed Cardinal Ruby for next to nothing from a guildy.

And just realizing I'm responding backwards, thanks for the tip off to use arcane but I have a sort of urgent question just because I am respeccing now and don't want to mess this up. The build I'm using is: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#of0ifz0fzxGuMtedcZbhf0o:zNi which seems to be the usual, but I use blizzard to AoE mobs pretty much constantly throughout an instance until bosses. So I was thinking that Frost Warding wouldn't be so useful to me, could I use those 2 points in Ice Shards just to boost my blizzard critical damage. I think it seems like a sound move, but until I hear from someone smarter than me (which is probably everyone who has rolled a mage) I don't want to branch off of the regular spec.

Thanks for the response to that, and thanks for everyones responses. Quite honestly I'm shocked and honored to be getting help from you guys, I see your names all over the mage forums, and to someone clueless like me it means a lot that instead of saying "haha look at that noob" I'm actually getting tons of really useful advice. I don't know if the armory has updated yet but I fixed all my gems aside from the yellow one in my helm because I plan on replacing that piece ASAP. Thanks again!
#9 Aug 19 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
Glad you are getting the hang of it!

For the spec, if you are mostly running 5mans I don't see a reason for you not to take ice shards, the frost warding talent is mostly used in some ICC fights that have frost damage to get a chance at some free mana.

For your AoE basically just rotate flamestrike and Blizzard and it will do fine.

Also, I don't remember if I mentioned it, but the triumph-badge trinket (Talisman of Resurgeance) is actually a good trinket for arcane mages, so if you have the badges after you get your 4PC I would take a look at it.

The difference between the stormjewel and the cardinal ruby, is that the stormjewel I believe was received through a random drop or pvp (can't remember) and you were limited to a single one in your gear. This gem was implemented before 3.2 (which is when epic gems (ala Cardinal Ruby) were implemented in the game (where before we were stuck with a Rare gems and able to use a single stormjewel to boost your dps a tiny bit, they are pretty much worthless now unless you find it for the same price/cheaper than a normal one).

For your question about the 'barrier' for fire, it is around those numbers when the potential dps of fire (due to its reliance on crit, mostly) surpasses Arcane. That isn't to say a bad fireball mage can beat a good arcane mage, but with potential dps that is about where it sits.


Best of luck with trying out arcane!

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 6:31pm by Anobix
#10 Aug 19 2010 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Stormjewels are drops--you can find them in various bags or boxes from bosses/quests. They have the same stats, but are less common. Go with whatever you can get cheaper--it makes no difference.
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#11 Aug 19 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
Anobix wrote:


Also, I don't remember if I mentioned it, but the triumph-badge trinket (Talisman of Resurgeance) is actually a good trinket for arcane mages, so if you have the badges after you get your 4PC I would take a look at it.



It is? When did that change?
#12 Aug 19 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
PigtailsOfDoom, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Anobix wrote:


Also, I don't remember if I mentioned it, but the triumph-badge trinket (Talisman of Resurgeance) is actually a good trinket for arcane mages, so if you have the badges after you get your 4PC I would take a look at it.



It is? When did that change?


the +int/spellpower trinket has been good for arcane mages since t9 and into T10 until you can replace it. I used it until I replaced it with my DFO (when I was arcane) to go alongside my Reign of the Dead (since replaced and so forth). The Int is quite good and the on-use isn't half-bad either. It ranks decently in Rawr for arcane mages for that purpose, although it doesn't hold a candle compared to the ICC trinkets for the most part, it is still good (by the way, don't waste time going after the Nevermelting Ice Crystal from ICC5mans, it is bad).
#13 Aug 19 2010 at 5:06 PM Rating: Decent
Yeah, I owe you guys a ton on getting a grip on this. And yeah I just went with ice shards, I just see it as another way to boost DPS, and ICC is still a little while off so I'm too concerned.

Also, with the emblem of triumph's I plan on getting the T9 hood, then the Brimstone Igniter, and now that Talisman of Resurgence. I recall someone earlier saying those trinkets weren't worth looking at, but I'll let that be debated, PigtailsOfDoom was the one who said that.

And thanks to you guys for that explanation between the 2 red gems, I was generally confused as to why they had the same stats. Once again thanks to everyone, I am now officially arcane and got gems and enchants to get me on my way! I'll respond to any further posts and give an update on DPS and such later! Have a good evening.

Edit: So this is where my "getting a grip on things" mentality falls apart, I guess I didn't see that Focus Magic isn't something you can buff yourself with, so what is its purpose? I mean I see it useful in raids, but what is it really worth? I doubt having it would get me into more raids, and from my understanding its a 1 person buff? Just wanted to poke around at what that is useful for, thanks.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 7:20pm by valleyum
#14 Aug 19 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
I learned everything I know from Anobix, so I'd say trust his judgment over mine, lol.

Yes, Focus Magic is a buff you put on other people. Generally speaking you're going to put it on people who have a high crit rating, preferably other spell casters as it benefits them better, but if there aren't any in your party putting it on a melee with high crit is fine. If there's another mage in your group, it's generally accepted that you will exchange FM buffs, but other than that it's up to your discretion. I usually will ask who wants it in a heroic and whoever responds first I'll put it on them as it's more of a fluff buff in heroics. I'd definitely suggest getting it now though, and try to get used to using it. Keep in mind that while the buff goes on another person, it benefits you as well, which is why you want to make sure you remember to buff people with it.

Oooh, also! I highly recommend going to WoWinterface.com and getting the Mage Nuggets add on. It's very helpful both in raiding and in heroics.
#15 Aug 19 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
Mage Nuggets and Power Auras are fantastic addons.

I'm a huge fan of Power Auras as it allows me to basically give me visual indicators/timers/etc of when things are/are not active.

For example:
(fire)
If Living bomb is on the target and how much time it has left
If I have a Hot Streak proc up
Scorch up/time left

(arcane)
A mark/notch for each stack of AB I have up
Missile Barrage proc is up
Icy Veins up/time
Arcane Power up/time

(misc)
Boss-fight Debuffs/Buffs/Timers


If you ever have some questions about gearing/etc your character I use Rawr (www.codeplex.com/rawr) a lot. There is a webbased version at www.elitistjerks.com/rawr.php as well. Basically you can import your character through the armory and assign items that you have available to you, customize the fight restrictions, your buffs you have available, etc and then hit 'optimize' and it should give you a general idea of how you should be gearing, what potential upgrades you have available to you, etc. I have a guide in my signature that can help with getting the basics of that as well.

Edited, Aug 19th 2010 10:21pm by Anobix
#16 Aug 20 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
Okay I believe I've got a grasp on what Focus Magic is good for, I didn't quite get that it helps me too. I've played around with it a little, I had a long night at a friends so I didn't get to raid but thats wildly off topic.

But about the addons, I believe I use curse.com for them, but I have both of those, and yes they come in insanely handy, and Deadly Boss Mods has saved my behind more than once, I love how it says who things are targeted at. I use Skada I believe for DPS readings, and Omen to handle threat. Along with things like Atlas Loot and Cartographer (which actually was horribly messed up so I think I used Mapster as an alternative).

And I plan on using your guide there cause the concept of Rawr seems really useful and innovative. Whomever made that is good. I'll play around with that later as well. Thanks again for all the help!
#17 Aug 22 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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3,157 posts
I just saw your server, man. Now I REALLY feel bad for you (Look at my characters).

This guy doesn't have to worry about raiding, folks, such a thing doesn't exist on that server.
#18 Aug 23 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
Well to say the least my DPS has doubled and then some. Thank you everyone for all th advice!

Also, jay, you play on the same server? There are a lot of servers, small world I assume, and yes raiding is nonexistent, I've only gotten into one VoA raid ever, then the raid for the weekly. But that is funny you just caught that. And I'm halfway to my T9 hood, I got the wand before it just for another boost to stats.

Edit: Does anyone know the DPS boost from Mirror Image? Because I neglected that skill, but now at the beginning of boss fights I pop it, and I'm sure it can't hurt my DPS. One thing though is my mana remains the same, if not slightly higher, but after the build switch from FFB to Arcane I find myself needing to use Evocation. I never had to use it before but it seems like casting Blizzard on trash mobs is eating at my mana. I know a 2.3k mana cost spell is one tenth of my total mana but it seems like before I could pop a Mana Strudel to boost my mana regen really quick and it would dash back to close to full and I'd be golden. My only guess was that before I had skills either improving blizzards damage or lowering its cost, I don't remember clearly if those were parts of my last build. I just wanted to mention it to see what you all thought.

Thanks again all! Have a good evening.

Edited, Aug 23rd 2010 6:23pm by valleyum
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