Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

How are you (dual)speccing in Cata?Follow

#52 Sep 03 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Horsemouth wrote:
Wi kan haz Hemo glif?

We can,
blue folks wrote:
# Hemorrhage - Your Hemorrhage ability also causes the target to bleed, dealing 40% of the direct strike's damage over 24 sec.(Source)


Spec still has too many Ambush talents for PvE. But this does help I, depending on the bleed how the bleed works it could make Hemo non-dagger a serious variant on the spec.

edit:

Really though Ambush talents need to be less as the ability is too situational for PvE to have that large of a talent point investment. Ten talent points buffing an ability the spec opens with and can use a few times a minute via SD is excessive and hurts the PvE aspect of Sub.

edit2:

SD + Ambush will also suffer from CD surplus and not enough time to Evis/Rupt with said CPs with SD as Sub is a low energy spec. Even with Recup giving energy, energy will be a limiting factor during SD. Six seconds to use an expensive ability that will cause energy starvation and CP capping is quite painful as a DPS cool down.

Edited, Sep 2nd 2010 12:31am by Horsemouth

The main problem is that up until halfway through WotLK, Blizzard was trying to make Sub into a PvP spec, and make it viable.

The only problem was that they made Mutilate too viable by allowing the 41/5/25 spec choice and all the variations therein.

Now that Blizzard has a 31 point talent already made, they don't want to completely scrap it and make Sub a viable DPS build, because let's face it, they're lazy when it comes to talents.

Shadowdance has been terrible since they introduced it.

I've specced into it twice. Once when it was first introduced and your bars didn't change, and once after they made it so that your bars can change in ShD.

Both times I was thoroughly disappointed in it, even when I had a kick-ass dagger to use with it (Furious MH).

Frankly, what I want to see as a 31 point talent is this:

Shadowlolz:

You are a master of the shadows, and thus all of your direct physical damage is converted to shadow damage.

It would make warriors and paladins much easier, and would provide a DPS buff to both PvE and PvP (as damage mitigation is much lower for spells, as armor doesn't have any effect).
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#53 Sep 04 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
***
1,609 posts
I too would like to spend a single talent point that provides 100% armor penetration on all my attacks.
____________________________
Ret Paladin: Rosencrantz

Subtlety Rogue: Tenshi
#54 Sep 04 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,684 posts
It's an active ability on a cooldown, obviously. If it were permanent, it'd suck balls. Paladins would pop aura mastery and we'd suddenly suck against priests. Warlock Felhounds would become unkillable.
____________________________
"My guildy Kasdaye" wrote:
Gearscore for raiders is like Goldshire for roleplayers.
#55 Sep 04 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Mozared wrote:
It's an active ability on a cooldown, obviously. If it were permanent, it'd suck balls. Paladins would pop aura mastery and we'd suddenly suck against priests. Warlock Felhounds would become unkillable.

260 resistance for 10 seconds wouldn't kill us.

Also, it doesn't have to be Shadow damage. Hell, make it holy so it can't be resisted. Space squids came from some alternate dimension giving rogues the ability to imbue their weapons with holy light and ergo we cut through any armor.

Whatever it is, to make Sub viable, you need to give the tree burst on par with mutilate against plate. It doesn't have it at the moment.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#56 Sep 04 2010 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,684 posts
Quote:
260 resistance for 10 seconds wouldn't kill us.

It could be game-breaking in high level arena. Aside from that though, it would just screw up a ton of things if we had permanent shadow damage, mainly in regards with people having resistance.

Your point is valid though. I'd personally like either a ~10 second buff (even though it would still suck against paladins, which is a bit of an odd balance) or an 'effects your next 3 abilities' kind of things.
____________________________
"My guildy Kasdaye" wrote:
Gearscore for raiders is like Goldshire for roleplayers.
#57 Sep 06 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Hey fellas!

Long time no speak, hope you all are well.

Anyway, I have 2 gladiator friends that are interested in doing RMP with me in cataclysm, so it is time to bring out my sexy old NElf (maybe race change Worgen) rogue for some serious 3v3.

I have been playing my priest for pvp purposes during wotlk, however I have never finished a season due to.. well. wotlk being $%$% £"$£" $%%^. You know...

I have been checking the changes, and mutilate seems rather good for RMP, due to the increased spell damage on poisoned targets.

However...

I am really interested in sub non-daggers!

I was at my best with my rogue during s3 when shadowstep was king. I never got going as mutilate, and love the mobility that shadowstep offers. I have leveled 2-3 warriors during wotlk and just love warbringer/juggernaut!

So, what do you guys think? What would work well with the setup(RMP)?

Stay pretty!
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#58 Sep 06 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
Muggle@#%^er
Avatar
*****
19,384 posts
To be fair, Ambush hits really frickin' hard. But I do see where you are coming from.

[EDIT]

Okay, so this is kinda like 5 posts late. >.<

Stupid second page.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 1:51pm by idiggory
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#59 Sep 06 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
devzzz, I still think Mutilate will be king in Cata. Sprint being on a 1 min timer will help significantly.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#60 Sep 06 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Thanks Theo.

What is this based on? The improved spell damage? The better burst? The easier rotation?

If it is just damage output, I am pretty sure numbers have not been passed through yet. I am hoping that they work some more on hemo dpe as the calculations earlier on in the thread didn't seem great.

Ambush working with non-daggers and the energy regen from a health regen ability is getting my hopes up for sub. Since recuperate will be a part of our rotation, surviving as sub seems easier.

I don't know, I just listed my thoughts. What were your thoughts for pvp rogue?
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#61 Sep 06 2010 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
devzzz wrote:
Thanks Theo.

What is this based on? The improved spell damage? The better burst? The easier rotation?

If it is just damage output, I am pretty sure numbers have not been passed through yet. I am hoping that they work some more on hemo dpe as the calculations earlier on in the thread didn't seem great.

Ambush working with non-daggers and the energy regen from a health regen ability is getting my hopes up for sub. Since recuperate will be a part of our rotation, surviving as sub seems easier.

I don't know, I just listed my thoughts. What were your thoughts for pvp rogue?

Kind of depends on how things go, but:

Vendetta is huge burst damage. 20% is a LOT.

Mutilate has Envenom, and assuming that engineering remains where it is (hand rockets, etc), we have one of the biggest finishers in the game (CB evis/envenom macro with hand rockets and global sapper charge can do ridiculous amounts).

Survival is less of an issue for mutilate; basically think of how mutilate was in TBC and add a moderately powerful self-hot in.

That said, sub may be the new PvP build just based on how much mobility and damage it'll be able to put up. Prep has proved to pretty much be "the" talent in PvP ever since S2, so who knows what'll happen.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#62 Sep 07 2010 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Planning on going Alliance, just because we like Worgen.

I always got kited a lot as mutilate. I don't know, maybe it was just a L2Play issue due to me not really having PvP'd much as mutilate, and AR/Prep then ShS being the 2 specs I used when I did PvP properly.

The 1 minute timer on sprint will help, true, but that is still once every minute.

Vandetta does look very nice, but the long cooldown kinda bothers me. Although saying that, a mage water elemental is on a 3 minute cooldown. They do get frozen preparation though. I watched some of the latest arena tournament, and it was obvious from the chat that people would keep their CC's ready for rogues dance. For example, when facing against the lock/rogue/rshaman team the lock would always keep death coil ready so that the rogue would get screwed. Now, with dance being on a shorter cooldown than death coil, I can't see them death coiling twice in a row. Although the 30 seconds use time for Vandetta makes it a bit harder to cc the full duration of it.

I don't know, it is mainly wait and see. If the numbers don't work out, if they change a talent again, whatever bliz do can change the balance instantly.

I just really hope the difference isn't very noticeable so that I can go with one or the other without worrying about gimping my setup.

Already been told that I will have to go with whichever spec is stronger if there is a clear cut winner for PvP though :sadface:

PS: Anybody know if the weapon list on MMO-Champ is the complete list? The only non-dagger melee one-hander has strength on it. Can't really go non-dagger if it isn't itemised :P Highly doubt it though. That would screw combat rogues, as well as hunters and shammies I believe. I guess we have to wait for the updated loot tables. Not like I would step into arena with blue weapons...or would I? :P
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#63 Sep 07 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,684 posts
Quote:
Although saying that, a mage water elemental is on a 3 minute cooldown.

Yeah, except that water elementals are now permapets.

That said, killing them might become something of a decent strategy, as the mage (as of yet) can't boost their survivability, they die relatively easy and it does take the mage 3 minutes to resummon him. Or the cooldowns don't match up and he'll resummon him instantly and then get a 3 minute CD time, but whatever.
____________________________
"My guildy Kasdaye" wrote:
Gearscore for raiders is like Goldshire for roleplayers.
#64 Sep 07 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Mozared wrote:
Quote:
Although saying that, a mage water elemental is on a 3 minute cooldown.

Yeah, except that water elementals are now permapets.

That said, killing them might become something of a decent strategy, as the mage (as of yet) can't boost their survivability, they die relatively easy and it does take the mage 3 minutes to resummon him. Or the cooldowns don't match up and he'll resummon him instantly and then get a 3 minute CD time, but whatever.


If they still get globaled I don't see many teams ignoring the water elemental. Will have to wait and see how that one pans out as well I guess.

I think if Cataclysm isn't coming in a months time or so I might be gearing up a bit and doing some arenas to get rid of the rust.

I will be getting a brand new PC soon, although I really want to wait to get a 6xxx series ati card. Anybody got a spare gfx card I can use until the 6xxx series comes out? :)
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#65 Sep 08 2010 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
***
1,609 posts
A very underestimated factor of cata pvp: all the talents and meta gems that lower cc duration are going away. You'll have more time during a blind or a kidney shot to do cool stuff like kick water elementals or get behind pillars and restealth.

I know i'm insane, but i'm gonna try combat pvp when i hit 85 (after my pally). It'll be just like S2, running around wearing enormous dragonstrike maces and doing huge ad. rush burst.

Haters gonna hate.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 7:17am by ArtemisEnteri
____________________________
Ret Paladin: Rosencrantz

Subtlety Rogue: Tenshi
#66 Sep 08 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
ArtemisEnteri wrote:
A very underestimated factor of cata pvp: all the talents and meta gems that lower cc duration are going away. You'll have more time during a blind or a kidney shot to do cool stuff like kick water elementals or get behind pillars and restealth.

I know i'm insane, but i'm gonna try combat pvp when i hit 85 (after my pally). It'll be just like S2, running around wearing enormous dragonstrike maces and doing huge ad. rush burst.

Haters gonna hate.

Edited, Sep 8th 2010 7:17am by ArtemisEnteri


The lower cc durations being removed is a nice step. Definitely helps rogues as well.

There is one big reason I don't see combat being good in PvP. Our burst (killing spree) is multi target. And the more targets arund the less damage per target. Although Blade Flurry may be able to counter that somewhat.

Adrenaline rush is also the longest cooldown we have currently for our main pvp burst talents. It does get reduced after using finishing moves, but still it is rather a long cooldown.

I certainly don't see combat being better than Assasination or Subtlety but we will have to wait and see I guess.

But you know what's most important, as long as you have fun playing that spec you should try it :)
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#67 Sep 08 2010 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
1) Blade Flurry is also a multi-target burst CD in Cata. With an energy snare built into its burst to boot, which is weird.

2) Rated BGs, arena will no longer be the only end game PvP. Everyone seems to be focusing on arena, I'm way more excited for rated BGs.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#68 Sep 08 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
This begs the question.

Why are you more interested in rated bgs?

I myself was never a big fan of bgs. It will be interesting to see how they will offer the rewards.

As far as I can see, the rewards will be exclusive, so people won't have to choose between arena and bg, but will be able to do both.

From my past experience, whichever spec was dominant in arena usually worked better in bgs than the rest. Anybody feel any different?
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#69 Sep 08 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
devzzz wrote:
This begs the question.

Why are you more interested in rated bgs?

I myself was never a big fan of bgs. It will be interesting to see how they will offer the rewards.

As far as I can see, the rewards will be exclusive, so people won't have to choose between arena and bg, but will be able to do both.

From my past experience, whichever spec was dominant in arena usually worked better in bgs than the rest. Anybody feel any different?

I like BGs much more than arena.

Here's hoping that you can still do BGs without having your rating change, much as you can do skirmish matches in arena.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#70 Sep 08 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
I would imagine that you could still do skirmish BGs as you need a BGs team for rated ones if I recall. Not sure as haven't seen much feedback on level cap PvP in Cata. The cap was only put to 85 a week ago so hopeful this kind of stuff will be forthcoming soon.

The expansive objective driven nature of BGs will give more wiggle room for specs I think as there will be less of a need to worry about counter comps and things of that nature. Arena specs will drive BG specs for sure but I can see combat flourishing in BGs far more than arenas.

Of course they could royally screw up rated BGs and make them terrible but I'm hoping that is not the case as I also greatly prefer BGs to arena.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#71 Sep 09 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
Muggle@#%^er
Avatar
*****
19,384 posts
I'm pretty sure non-rated BGs will exist as well, for those of us that aren't dedicated PvPers but generally enjoy it. So they might not implement skirmishes.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#72 Sep 09 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
idiggory wrote:
I'm pretty sure non-rated BGs will exist as well, for those of us that aren't dedicated PvPers but generally enjoy it. So they might not implement skirmishes.


A non rated BG is a skirmish BG.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#73 Sep 10 2010 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Yeah, it would be dumb if we couldn't farm gear while not worrying about our bg ranking.

Some new tasty titles, I am planning on getting at least one of each, High Warlord Cluts(priest) and Grand Marshal Devz(Rogue). BG teams also requiring you to be in the top .5% means.............only 1 team a season? Guess it will be hard to get the gladiator equivalent title.

It seems that the way they are going with sub is that they want Backstab to be your primary hitter. That means I will be most likely going assassination.

I was so hyped for sub as well :sadface:
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#74 Sep 10 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
devzzz wrote:
It seems that the way they are going with sub is that they want Backstab to be your primary hitter. That means I will be most likely going assassination.

I was so hyped for sub as well :sadface:


Also Ambush is propped up and you can use it a few time one per minute via SD. ShS only bosting Amb/Gar damage makes it worse. Sub being so Ambush happy is retarded.

If it stays as such welcome to yet another xpac with a dead Sub spec. Only even worse as Prep will be laughing at us buried beneath worthless talents.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#75 Sep 10 2010 at 5:10 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Horsemouth wrote:
devzzz wrote:
It seems that the way they are going with sub is that they want Backstab to be your primary hitter. That means I will be most likely going assassination.

I was so hyped for sub as well :sadface:


Also Ambush is propped up and you can use it a few time one per minute via SD. ShS only bosting Amb/Gar damage makes it worse. Sub being so Ambush happy is retarded.

If it stays as such welcome to yet another xpac with a dead Sub spec. Only even worse as Prep will be laughing at us buried beneath worthless talents.


I seriously don't get the goals of the tree designs.

Assassination is meant to be... well... assassination.

Yet, what do they want us to use? Garotte and Rupture. That's like, a dot, not an assassination effect.

They want to move away from stunlocking, I understand that, but forcing us to use bleeds so that we can get energy back as assassination? That doesn't make sense. I don't know, still too early to blame maybe, but I fear that the specs are actually becoming more solidified every day. They made no passes onto Assi in the last build, but changed things around in Sub.
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#76 Sep 10 2010 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
Muggle@#%^er
Avatar
*****
19,384 posts
Quote:
A non rated BG is a skirmish BG.


Except that, even if you enter as a team, there's no guarantee that you'll be facing another one. So it sucks as a skirmish equivalent, since you can easily be facing a bunch of baddies who don't even call incs and fight on roads.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#77 Sep 10 2010 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
A non rated BG is a skirmish BG.


Except that, even if you enter as a team, there's no guarantee that you'll be facing another one. So it sucks as a skirmish equivalent, since you can easily be facing a bunch of baddies who don't even call incs and fight on roads.


That's the exact same way arena skirmish works.

I highly doubt that forcing teams for skirmish would be a good idea. After the first couple of weeks nobody would feel the need to skirmish, and people would be stuck in skirmish queues for hours...
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#78 Sep 10 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
idiggory wrote:
Quote:
A non rated BG is a skirmish BG.


Except that, even if you enter as a team, there's no guarantee that you'll be facing another one. So it sucks as a skirmish equivalent, since you can easily be facing a bunch of baddies who don't even call incs and fight on roads.


So like how BGs currently are on live? A random collection of mouth breathers face rolling for free honor gear.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#79 Sep 10 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
devzzz wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
devzzz wrote:
It seems that the way they are going with sub is that they want Backstab to be your primary hitter. That means I will be most likely going assassination.

I was so hyped for sub as well :sadface:


Also Ambush is propped up and you can use it a few time one per minute via SD. ShS only bosting Amb/Gar damage makes it worse. Sub being so Ambush happy is retarded.

If it stays as such welcome to yet another xpac with a dead Sub spec. Only even worse as Prep will be laughing at us buried beneath worthless talents.


I seriously don't get the goals of the tree designs.

Assassination is meant to be... well... assassination.

Yet, what do they want us to use? Garotte and Rupture. That's like, a dot, not an assassination effect.

They want to move away from stunlocking, I understand that, but forcing us to use bleeds so that we can get energy back as assassination? That doesn't make sense. I don't know, still too early to blame maybe, but I fear that the specs are actually becoming more solidified every day. They made no passes onto Assi in the last build, but changed things around in Sub.

Actually, I have high hopes for Sub based on the fact that Ambush is able to be used with any weapon now.

If Hemo isn't energy-viable, you can use this build.

If Hemo is energy viable (I think it will be, maybe not as viable as BS), you can do this.

Blizzard has stated that they want PvP to be more about survivability for rogues, hence why I think Sub will end up being the main go-to spec for us. FWIW, the MMO-Champion rogue section has a lot of interesting blue quotes in it.

Also, I can see this build being viable as well (for increased durability).

Oh, and a sub/combat build looks pretty nice as well, based on that first build (though I'd miss 15% run speed terribly).

This has been my insane ramblings on Sub in PvP. I do think as things have changed, Sub is getting more viable as a PvP build.

Edit: Oh, and Find Weakness looks absolutely ridiculous for burst, especially in ShD.

Edited, Sep 10th 2010 12:46pm by Theophany
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#80 Sep 10 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,684 posts
I finished my SC2 map for the contest, so I've got more spare time in the Cata beta as well. Trying to level my rogue as we speak, server's going on and off every X minutes.

I'm still sticking with Subt PvE and Assassination PvE to level - with addons now allowed, I hope to get recount working in the days to come and post up some numbers. This is my current Subt spec (should be cookie cutter PvE, except for that at 85 you grab Coup de Grace instead of Deadly Momentum and throw an additional point into Enveloping Shadows), this is my current Assassination PvE spec. I really like Assassination as it is now - you can literally pick up everything you want and end up with 2 points you can throw pretty much anywhere to boot. You can drop them in Elusiveness, Imp Recuperate, Precision if you need the hit or Deadened Nerves if you're really hardcore - all those choice seem equally good to me at the moment. That is assuming we're going to need to use Recuperate in raids.
____________________________
"My guildy Kasdaye" wrote:
Gearscore for raiders is like Goldshire for roleplayers.
#81 Sep 10 2010 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Looking forward to your feedback.

What level are you at currently?
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#82 Sep 10 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,684 posts
I'm at 83. The 'problem' really is that 80-82 takes about as long as 70-72, while 82-83 takes... days. It's a really slow grind, and 83-84 will be even worse. I'm trying to level both my priest and my rogue as well, though it looks like my rogue will be my first (and maybe only) character to hit 85.
____________________________
"My guildy Kasdaye" wrote:
Gearscore for raiders is like Goldshire for roleplayers.
#83 Sep 10 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Good
Muggle@#%^er
Avatar
*****
19,384 posts
Getting to 81 is stupidly fast, TBH. I'm imagining that they'll increase the time it takes when Cata goes live, having just reduced it in the Beta to get people to the content they wanted tested faster.
____________________________
IDrownFish wrote:
Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

lolgaxe wrote:
Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
#84 Sep 11 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,463 posts
Get to 85 and hit the duels...I'd say but you would have pretty bad gear.

Still, being able to listen to first hand experince of things is a nice touch.

What will you be focusing on at 85?
____________________________
Kazzak-EU
#85 Sep 11 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,684 posts
Quote:
Getting to 81 is stupidly fast, TBH. I'm imagining that they'll increase the time it takes when Cata goes live, having just reduced it in the Beta to get people to the content they wanted tested faster.

Aye, 81 and 82 aren't too bad - it's really the gap from 81/82 and 83 that makes me go crosseyed. You can get 81 and 82 by just doing Hyjal or Vashj'ir. Just getting 83 need Hyjal/Vashj'ir AND half of Deepholm, which is more than twice the amount of content of 80-81 or 81-82.

Quote:
Get to 85 and hit the duels...I'd say but you would have pretty bad gear.

Still, being able to listen to first hand experince of things is a nice touch.

What will you be focusing on at 85?

I doubt I'll do any raids, but I'll try to see what PvE is like in terms of DPS. I might do a couple of duels, but I haven't played my rogue in ages so I suck in PvP at the moment. Will be fun to try Smoke Screen, though.
____________________________
"My guildy Kasdaye" wrote:
Gearscore for raiders is like Goldshire for roleplayers.
#86 Sep 12 2010 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
So I got on the PTR today on my 80 (geared) rogue.

Recuperate with no talents other than Quickening was ticking for ~1020.

Mutilate is pretty weird with some of the talents in the tree (still undecided about Venomous Wounds, keeping a Rupture up isn't THAT hard, but it's weird), but overall it's pretty ridiculous.

Oh, and even though all your gems/enchants etc are switched to Agi, expect to lose like 2% crit.

Vendetta is fricking amazing. It can't be dispelled, it's glyph (which no one has) increases the duration by 20% (:30 duration becomes :36), and you hit like a goddamn truck with it up. I was spamming 14k Envenoms with 4400 AP.

Also, I have glyph info:

You get 3 glyphs of 3 types, for those not paying attention. Prime, Major, and Minor.

Prime are for class-defining abilities like Vendetta, Shadowdance, etc.

The Primes are: Evis (+10% crit), Mutilate (-5e), AR (+:05 duration), BS (crits return 5e), Hemo (40% of damage is done as additional bleed), Killing Spree (+10% bonus damage), Revealing Strike (bonus to finishers increased by 10%), Rupture (+:04 duration), ShD (+:02 duration), SS (20% chance to add a second CP on use), SnD (+:03 duration), Vendetta (20% increased duration).

Majors are modifications to our major abilities like Sprint, CloS, etc.

Majors are: Sprint (extra 30% movement speed in Sprint), Ambush (+5 yard range), Blade Flurry (reduces penalty to energy generation while active by 50%), Blind (removes ALL damage over time effects from the target), CloS (take 40% less physical damage while active), Crippling Poison (+20% application chance), Deadly Throw (+20% to snare), Evasion (+:05 duration), Expose Armor (+:12 duration), FoK (+50% radius), Feint (-20e), Garrote (+:02 duration on the silence), Gouge (don't need to be in front), Kick (increases cooldown by :04, but if you interrupt something, reduces the cooldown by :06), Prep (renews Kick, Dismantle, Smoke Bomb), Sap (+:80 duration on non-players), TotT (removes energy cost, but reduces damage bonus by 5%), Vanish (increases duration of effect by :02).

Minors are cosmetic changes and very minor bonuses.

Minors include: Blurred Speed (Sprint lets you run on water), Poisons (apply poisons to your weapons 50% faster), Safe Fall (increases the distance Safe Fall allows you to fall without taking damage), Distract (+5 yard range), Pick Lock (+5 yard range), Pick Pocket (+5 yard range).

Basically, glyphs for PvP look sick.

Obviously for a Mutilate build you're going to take Mutilate, Vendetta, and Rupture/Evis (depends on if Evis glyph works for Envenom) for Primes, Sprint, Blind, and Evasion for Majors, and Blurred Speed and whatever the hell else you want for Minors.

That was a lot to type out, but I wanted them all in one place so that they're easy to read.

Oh, and also, you learn a glyph once and then you can always use it, but to overwrite a glyph, you need Vanishing Powder. No idea on where you get it, but I'm assuming it'll be common and cheap.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#87 Sep 13 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Oh, and also, you learn a glyph once and then you can always use it, but to overwrite a glyph, you need Vanishing Powder. No idea on where you get it, but I'm assuming it'll be common and cheap.


I bet scribes and they'll gouge as glyph market will suck.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#88 Sep 13 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Horsemouth wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Oh, and also, you learn a glyph once and then you can always use it, but to overwrite a glyph, you need Vanishing Powder. No idea on where you get it, but I'm assuming it'll be common and cheap.


I bet scribes and they'll gouge as glyph market will suck.

Probably. I don't mind though, as it means that I don't have to hunt for a ridiculously overpriced glyph, I just need a reagent.

Also, there are so many scribes on my server that the undercutting will make me lol.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#89 Oct 01 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,602 posts
Yep, Scribes are able to learn how to make vanishing powder [from the PTR it says it uses midnight ink] from their trainers. each time you want to change a glyph spot, you need the powder.
____________________________
Quote:
Also they aren't pixels, they're polygons, any porn you watch on your PC is pixels, and besides, real women are just cells.
#90 Oct 01 2010 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Tenjen wrote:
Yep, Scribes are able to learn how to make vanishing powder [from the PTR it says it uses midnight ink] from their trainers. each time you want to change a glyph spot, you need the powder.

On the PTR you can also buy the powder from vendors, but I don't know if that'll make it to live.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#91 Oct 02 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,602 posts
about venomous wounds, anyone know if the nature damage on the procs is calculated? I've had people say its 1030 and for me it procs for 1300

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 12:35pm by Tenjen
____________________________
Quote:
Also they aren't pixels, they're polygons, any porn you watch on your PC is pixels, and besides, real women are just cells.
#92 Oct 02 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Tenjen wrote:
about venomous wounds, anyone know if the nature damage on the procs is calculated? I've had people say its 1030 and for me it procs for 1300

Edited, Oct 2nd 2010 12:35pm by Tenjen

It's been 1300 for me on the PTR. I'm assuming it's calculated by level and is a set damage amount.

It could also scale via AP, but we don't really know yet, as no one has really done any testing.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#93 Oct 04 2010 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
I managed to get onto the PTR as well to mess around with the specs, although it doesn't really help much when I didn't have my addons up as well with me.

Theo, have you checked out any builds for the Combat tree, and if so, how is the dps compared to something like assassination in regards to PVE?
____________________________
Alliance
90 Rogue - Aresella
90 Shaman - Aislynn
90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
85 Hunter - Xeliara
85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#94 Oct 04 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I managed to get onto the PTR as well to mess around with the specs, although it doesn't really help much when I didn't have my addons up as well with me.

Theo, have you checked out any builds for the Combat tree, and if so, how is the dps compared to something like assassination in regards to PVE?

From what I've learned, Combat is in need of a significant buff to bring it up to par with mutilate on the current PTR.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#95 Oct 04 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
Hmm, lame. I really don't want to have to go mut (nothing against it, I just am used to combat). Guess I'll try mutilate out and see how much I like it on the PTR. lol
____________________________
Alliance
90 Rogue - Aresella
90 Shaman - Aislynn
90 Warrior - Alazara
88 Mage - Gízmo
85 Druid - Araxi
85 Hunter - Xeliara
85 Priest - Alaxandra
85 Paladin - Kallísto
30 Monk - Faewyn
#96 Oct 04 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Hmm, lame. I really don't want to have to go mut (nothing against it, I just am used to combat). Guess I'll try mutilate out and see how much I like it on the PTR. lol


Go to the dark side and be Sub. Its fun and if I recall will be competitive damage in 4.0.1.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#97 Oct 05 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Horsemouth wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Hmm, lame. I really don't want to have to go mut (nothing against it, I just am used to combat). Guess I'll try mutilate out and see how much I like it on the PTR. lol


Go to the dark side and be Sub. Its fun and if I recall will be competitive damage in 4.0.1.

So what are we speccing for Sub, this? We're stuck using Hemo for when we're not using finishers (obviously not a problem when in a 25/10 man, problem in 5 mans), so I'd think that puts the spec at a disadvantage.

It looks good for 85, though (this is an alternate build if you don't plan to use BS at all).

Mutilate looks fun at 80, and looks even more fun at 85.

The removal of HFB really makes me want to play Mutilate in PvE. The pure simplicity of spamming Envenom will make it easy as hell to play.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
#98 Oct 05 2010 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
Hmm, lame. I really don't want to have to go mut (nothing against it, I just am used to combat). Guess I'll try mutilate out and see how much I like it on the PTR. lol


Go to the dark side and be Sub. Its fun and if I recall will be competitive damage in 4.0.1.

So what are we speccing for Sub, this? We're stuck using Hemo for when we're not using finishers (obviously not a problem when in a 25/10 man, problem in 5 mans), so I'd think that puts the spec at a disadvantage.

It looks good for 85, though (this is an alternate build if you don't plan to use BS at all).

Mutilate looks fun at 80, and looks even more fun at 85.

The removal of HFB really makes me want to play Mutilate in PvE. The pure simplicity of spamming Envenom will make it easy as hell to play.


Using Hemo more often than every 24 seconds is bad as we glyph it for an extra bleed. You use BS and HAT as your main CP builders. Looks like this with some play points in the non-DPS stuff for flava.

BS scales better than Hemo so we will use it when CP intake from Rupt and HAT is slow. Hemo is for the debuff and the extra bleed. So daggers will be the weapons of choice. I got a Heartpierce. :P

Open from stealth with ShS->Ambush to get SnD up, then Hemo and get Recup running (can get it up with low CPs at first to get the system running sooner), then get a 5 CP Rupture up. Evis will want to always be at 5 CPs to prevent having to use CPs on Rupt. Then its just maintenance and watching timers. Making sure to keep them all de-synchronized or the whole thing could collapse and you'd have to start over, which is a bitch.

SD on CD, well close to on CD as you want to have time on your self buffs and be close to energy capped, with Premed of course macro'd to Ambush. Timing SD will take practice as you don't want to have SnD/Recup drop off during SD.

Its like feral DPS but with daggers and no cat form.

Muti does look fun as well, HFB was a kill joy and made me go Combat honestly.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#99 Oct 06 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,602 posts
I seem to have trouble with energy capping in raids on the prt with Assasination.

I'am doing as much as i can but still getting full unused energy bars for a few very short BUT very noticeable moments [those very important moments].

start off with garrote, snd, muty, envenom, muty then rupture, muty/envenom [without clipping envenom] and refreshing rupture. Vend when possible. Hrrmmmm.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 7:33am by Tenjen
____________________________
Quote:
Also they aren't pixels, they're polygons, any porn you watch on your PC is pixels, and besides, real women are just cells.
#100 Oct 06 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Good
****
7,396 posts
Tenjen wrote:
I seem to have trouble with energy capping in raids on the prt with Assasination.

I'am doing as much as i can but still getting full unused energy bars for a few very short BUT very noticeable moments [those very important moments].

start off with garrote, snd, muty, envenom, muty then rupture, muty/envenom [without clipping envenom] and refreshing rupture. Vend when possible. Hrrmmmm.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 7:33am by Tenjen


Cata is not balanced for level 80 with ICC gear.

You have more haste and crit now than you will at level 85. Plus any ArP you happened to have is now haste or crit. Haste boosts raw energy regen and crit boost Rupture based regen. Drop Rupture and Envenom more. You likely wont need the energy gained from using Rupture and Envenom does more damage. If Rupture-less is energy starved then work it back in to find a happy place.

Try that and report back. We curious.
____________________________
Hellbanned

idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#101 Oct 06 2010 at 2:02 AM Rating: Decent
Does it from behind...
Avatar
*****
13,041 posts
Horsemouth wrote:
Tenjen wrote:
I seem to have trouble with energy capping in raids on the prt with Assasination.

I'am doing as much as i can but still getting full unused energy bars for a few very short BUT very noticeable moments [those very important moments].

start off with garrote, snd, muty, envenom, muty then rupture, muty/envenom [without clipping envenom] and refreshing rupture. Vend when possible. Hrrmmmm.

Edited, Oct 6th 2010 7:33am by Tenjen


Cata is not balanced for level 80 with ICC gear.

You have more haste and crit now than you will at level 85. Plus any ArP you happened to have is now haste or crit. Haste boosts raw energy regen and crit boost Rupture based regen. Drop Rupture and Envenom more. You likely wont need the energy gained from using Rupture and Envenom does more damage. If Rupture-less is energy starved then work it back in to find a happy place.

Try that and report back. We curious.

If you drop Rupture from your rotation, you might as well drop Venomous Wounds.

You could drop the talent, but there's not much else to take, and the damage that you'd lose out on is fairly significant.

I just don't know how you're getting full energy bars. If you have extra energy and full combo points, drop a Recuperate or Envenom and Mutilate again. It shouldn't be possible to fill up your energy with how the combo point system works.
____________________________
The·oph·a·ny (thē-ŏf'ə-nē)
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
Rogue Hunter
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 23 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (23)