How are you (dual)speccing in Cata?Follow

The main problem is that up until halfway through WotLK, Blizzard was trying to make Sub into a PvP spec, and make it viable.

The only problem was that they made Mutilate too viable by allowing the 41/5/25 spec choice and all the variations therein.

Now that Blizzard has a 31 point talent already made, they don't want to completely scrap it and make Sub a viable DPS build, because let's face it, they're lazy when it comes to talents.

Shadowdance has been terrible since they introduced it.

I've specced into it twice. Once when it was first introduced and your bars didn't change, and once after they made it so that your bars can change in ShD.

Both times I was thoroughly disappointed in it, even when I had a kick-*** dagger to use with it (Furious MH).

Frankly, what I want to see as a 31 point talent is this:

Shadowlolz:

You are a master of the shadows, and thus all of your direct physical damage is converted to shadow damage.

It would make warriors and paladins much easier, and would provide a DPS buff to both PvE and PvP (as damage mitigation is much lower for spells, as armor doesn't have any effect).

It's an active ability on a cooldown, obviously. If it were permanent, it'd suck balls. Paladins would pop aura mastery and we'd suddenly suck against priests. Warlock Felhounds would become unkillable.

It could be game-breaking in high level arena. Aside from that though, it would just ***** up a ton of things if we had permanent shadow damage, mainly in regards with people having resistance.

Your point is valid though. I'd personally like either a ~10 second buff (even though it would still suck against paladins, which is a bit of an odd balance) or an 'effects your next 3 abilities' kind of things.

To be fair, Ambush hits really frickin' hard. But I do see where you are coming from.

[EDIT]

Okay, so this is kinda like 5 posts late. >.<

Stupid second page.

Edited, Sep 6th 2010 1:51pm by idiggory

Thanks Theo.

What is this based on? The improved spell damage? The better burst? The easier rotation?

If it is just damage output, I am pretty sure numbers have not been passed through yet. I am hoping that they work some more on hemo dpe as the calculations earlier on in the thread didn't seem great.

Ambush working with non-daggers and the energy regen from a health regen ability is getting my hopes up for sub. Since recuperate will be a part of our rotation, surviving as sub seems easier.

I don't know, I just listed my thoughts. What were your thoughts for pvp rogue?

Planning on going Alliance, just because we like Worgen.

I always got kited a lot as mutilate. I don't know, maybe it was just a L2Play issue due to me not really having PvP'd much as mutilate, and AR/Prep then ShS being the 2 specs I used when I did PvP properly.

The 1 minute timer on sprint will help, true, but that is still once every minute.

Vandetta does look very nice, but the long cooldown kinda bothers me. Although saying that, a mage water elemental is on a 3 minute cooldown. They do get frozen preparation though. I watched some of the latest arena tournament, and it was obvious from the chat that people would keep their CC's ready for rogues dance. For example, when facing against the lock/rogue/rshaman team the lock would always keep death coil ready so that the rogue would get screwed. Now, with dance being on a shorter cooldown than death coil, I can't see them death coiling twice in a row. Although the 30 seconds use time for Vandetta makes it a bit harder to cc the full duration of it.

I don't know, it is mainly wait and see. If the numbers don't work out, if they change a talent again, whatever bliz do can change the balance instantly.

I just really hope the difference isn't very noticeable so that I can go with one or the other without worrying about gimping my setup.

Already been told that I will have to go with whichever spec is stronger if there is a clear cut winner for PvP though :sadface:

PS: Anybody know if the weapon list on MMO-Champ is the complete list? The only non-dagger melee one-hander has strength on it. Can't really go non-dagger if it isn't itemised :P Highly doubt it though. That would ***** combat rogues, as well as hunters and shammies I believe. I guess we have to wait for the updated loot tables. Not like I would step into arena with blue weapons...or would I? :P

If they still get globaled I don't see many teams ignoring the water elemental. Will have to wait and see how that one pans out as well I guess.

I think if Cataclysm isn't coming in a months time or so I might be gearing up a bit and doing some arenas to get rid of the rust.

I will be getting a brand new PC soon, although I really want to wait to get a 6xxx series ati card. Anybody got a spare gfx card I can use until the 6xxx series comes out? :)

The lower cc durations being removed is a nice step. Definitely helps rogues as well.

There is one big reason I don't see combat being good in PvP. Our burst (killing spree) is multi target. And the more targets arund the less damage per target. Although Blade Flurry may be able to counter that somewhat.

Adrenaline rush is also the longest cooldown we have currently for our main pvp burst talents. It does get reduced after using finishing moves, but still it is rather a long cooldown.

I certainly don't see combat being better than Assasination or Subtlety but we will have to wait and see I guess.

But you know what's most important, as long as you have fun playing that spec you should try it :)

This begs the question.

Why are you more interested in rated bgs?

I myself was never a big fan of bgs. It will be interesting to see how they will offer the rewards.

As far as I can see, the rewards will be exclusive, so people won't have to choose between arena and bg, but will be able to do both.

From my past experience, whichever spec was dominant in arena usually worked better in bgs than the rest. Anybody feel any different?

I would imagine that you could still do skirmish BGs as you need a BGs team for rated ones if I recall. Not sure as haven't seen much feedback on level cap PvP in Cata. The cap was only put to 85 a week ago so hopeful this kind of stuff will be forthcoming soon.

The expansive objective driven nature of BGs will give more wiggle room for specs I think as there will be less of a need to worry about counter comps and things of that nature. Arena specs will drive BG specs for sure but I can see combat flourishing in BGs far more than arenas.

Of course they could royally ***** up rated BGs and make them terrible but I'm hoping that is not the case as I also greatly prefer BGs to arena.

A non rated BG is a skirmish BG.

Also Ambush is propped up and you can use it a few time one per minute via SD. ShS only bosting Amb/Gar damage makes it worse. Sub being so Ambush happy is retarded.

If it stays as such welcome to yet another xpac with a dead Sub spec. Only even worse as Prep will be laughing at us buried beneath worthless talents.

Except that, even if you enter as a team, there's no guarantee that you'll be facing another one. So it sucks as a skirmish equivalent, since you can easily be facing a bunch of baddies who don't even call incs and fight on roads.