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im new to paladins and i was wandering what the best leveling build for a prot paladin was and what stats i should concentrate on for my paladin. i have a lvl 12 human paladin atm and i am wanting to make it the best tank i can.
Scholar
24 posts
First thing, prot pallies don't actually level prot until about 70 or 72. At 70 real tanking gear becomes available in the form of the cobalt set made by blacksmiths, and at 72(I think) you get divine plea which makes mana a MUCH smaller problem if you're chain pulling.
What you want to do is level ret up till that point. It helps a LOT during 15-60 to have seal of command for AOE threat.
Edit: Forgot the stats part, I'm a twit. You'll want to look for Strength and Stamina on your gear, Agi is okay as a secondary but don't try too hard for it.
Edit2: I failed at the armor set -.- It's just called cobalt. For some stupid reason my brain keeps mixing tempered saronite and the cobalt sets. Also as many will say, yes ret IS the fastest way to get to 70 but level with whatever you find most fun. (But you will thank yourself for getting Seal of Command even if you go into prot after.)
Now at 60 prot does become viable without seal of command. (Well the term is 'more fun'. Viability doesn't really come into play until wrath begins.) Thanks to hammer of the righteous. You will learn to love that ability as though it was your first born child. Glyph it for instances/heroics, the fourth target is amazing for trash.
Also wanted to add to the stats thing, at 80 the first key is to make sure you get to 535 defense SKILL through gear, not 535 defense rating. This removes the mobs' ability to crit you in heroics, which makes life a LOT easier on the healers. By the time you've got that the rest of your stats should be good enough for starting heroics, but H ToC and the ICC instances will still roflstomp you into a paper thin pancake.
Edited, Aug 4th 2010 2:31pm by Sirfailalot
Edited, Aug 5th 2010 9:38am by Sirfailalot
What you want to do is level ret up till that point. It helps a LOT during 15-60 to have seal of command for AOE threat.
Edit: Forgot the stats part, I'm a twit. You'll want to look for Strength and Stamina on your gear, Agi is okay as a secondary but don't try too hard for it.
Edit2: I failed at the armor set -.- It's just called cobalt. For some stupid reason my brain keeps mixing tempered saronite and the cobalt sets. Also as many will say, yes ret IS the fastest way to get to 70 but level with whatever you find most fun. (But you will thank yourself for getting Seal of Command even if you go into prot after.)
Now at 60 prot does become viable without seal of command. (Well the term is 'more fun'. Viability doesn't really come into play until wrath begins.) Thanks to hammer of the righteous. You will learn to love that ability as though it was your first born child. Glyph it for instances/heroics, the fourth target is amazing for trash.
Also wanted to add to the stats thing, at 80 the first key is to make sure you get to 535 defense SKILL through gear, not 535 defense rating. This removes the mobs' ability to crit you in heroics, which makes life a LOT easier on the healers. By the time you've got that the rest of your stats should be good enough for starting heroics, but H ToC and the ICC instances will still roflstomp you into a paper thin pancake.
Edited, Aug 4th 2010 2:31pm by Sirfailalot
Edited, Aug 5th 2010 9:38am by Sirfailalot
Sirfailalot said it best, as I've heard. Ret is the way to lvl till at least 70.
Though I wouldn't know. I lvl'd prot when BC came out. I loved the fact I could live forever and pull so many mobs. It made that kill x of y so cool when you could pull 4 of them and watch them die.... slowly granted, but I was watching movies and popping popcorn while tanking :-) And that was before the days of insta tank q's for dungon runs!
IF you want to lvl prot the first thing I'll say is, everyone is right. Lvling ret is faster, and probally easier. If you are not worried about slicing through the game and want to enjoy prot as it builds up these are the things to think about.
1 Holy Damage is always your top threat gain.
2 Your seals and judges are big in early game. Read, use, switch 'em up.
3 Watch your mana pool. Get lots of drink and use your first aid. Cooking is really helpful too. If you know an Pot dealer, get some. Extra buffs are always a plus.
At 16 you get Righteous Fury, use it.
At 20 you get Consecration. Use it, but watch your mana pool as people tend to over-use it.
Your first few talents will actually be going down the ret tree. After lvl 31 you can spec into Prot (as at that point you can get Blessing of Sanctuary). So, on the ret tree, Deflection, Heart of the Crusader, Improved Judgements, and finally Seal of Command. After that you can start dumping into prot and resepc at 31. Still carry a sword and board, it keeps you alive.
Hope this was helpful. Any more questions feel free to ask.
Though I wouldn't know. I lvl'd prot when BC came out. I loved the fact I could live forever and pull so many mobs. It made that kill x of y so cool when you could pull 4 of them and watch them die.... slowly granted, but I was watching movies and popping popcorn while tanking :-) And that was before the days of insta tank q's for dungon runs!
IF you want to lvl prot the first thing I'll say is, everyone is right. Lvling ret is faster, and probally easier. If you are not worried about slicing through the game and want to enjoy prot as it builds up these are the things to think about.
1 Holy Damage is always your top threat gain.
2 Your seals and judges are big in early game. Read, use, switch 'em up.
3 Watch your mana pool. Get lots of drink and use your first aid. Cooking is really helpful too. If you know an Pot dealer, get some. Extra buffs are always a plus.
At 16 you get Righteous Fury, use it.
At 20 you get Consecration. Use it, but watch your mana pool as people tend to over-use it.
Your first few talents will actually be going down the ret tree. After lvl 31 you can spec into Prot (as at that point you can get Blessing of Sanctuary). So, on the ret tree, Deflection, Heart of the Crusader, Improved Judgements, and finally Seal of Command. After that you can start dumping into prot and resepc at 31. Still carry a sword and board, it keeps you alive.
Hope this was helpful. Any more questions feel free to ask.
I made the switch to Prot at 50, simply because Crusader Strike didn't bring the much needed change from auto-attacking that I was hoping for. I got dual-spec then to at least give Ret a chance, but it turned out that I only went back to it now and then to at least somewhat keep my 2-hand skill current.
There are so many quests mobs that are perfectly suited for being rounded up in large groups while you're finishing Azeroth, be that undead in Plaguelands or demons in Felwood. And it continues in Outland. Half a dozen Hellboars or Orcs at once right from the start. Being able to just solo the group quests in Hellfire other than maybe one, and all that while being a proper and reliable tank all the way from Ramparts to Sethekk Halls...
I've already dumped my Ret spec for Holy. Leveling as a Prot pally isn't quite as nice as it was with my warrior, but it's damn close.
The sticky FAQ threat has still the most important information. I think you should just read it, get into leveling, and maybe then come back with more specific questions as you run into problems along the way.
There are so many quests mobs that are perfectly suited for being rounded up in large groups while you're finishing Azeroth, be that undead in Plaguelands or demons in Felwood. And it continues in Outland. Half a dozen Hellboars or Orcs at once right from the start. Being able to just solo the group quests in Hellfire other than maybe one, and all that while being a proper and reliable tank all the way from Ramparts to Sethekk Halls...
I've already dumped my Ret spec for Holy. Leveling as a Prot pally isn't quite as nice as it was with my warrior, but it's damn close.
The sticky FAQ threat has still the most important information. I think you should just read it, get into leveling, and maybe then come back with more specific questions as you run into problems along the way.
I find 2 problems with lvling as prot pally before level 70:
1) If you can't fight multimobs (at least 3), your dps fall alot and you end up taking more time killing stuff. The problem that happen frenquently it that you try to aggro, let say, 6 mobs but since they're too spread apart, you loose the first 2-3 that were chasing you before you can reach the sixth one.
2) The bigger problem is if's there's a caster in the group (happen often!), then the fight becomes a chore. You just can't ignore him and try to round up the melee around him because he won't folow you and his spells usually bypass most of your damange mitigation. You end up healing yourself instead of fighting and loosing mana at the same time.
I see 3 advantages:
1) Almost instant dungeon pickup as a tank.
2) Group quest done alone. This has to be seen to be believed! You can take on an elite the same lvl as you that would otherwise need at least 2 to 3 people to take down.
3) Clearing a tight pack of melee mob. Animals and undead (without caster) are great for that.
Feel free to tell me what change pass lvl 70. My guess is Divine Plea makes the mana more managable if you need to burn more mana on a certain mob.
Thanks,
Gtap
1) If you can't fight multimobs (at least 3), your dps fall alot and you end up taking more time killing stuff. The problem that happen frenquently it that you try to aggro, let say, 6 mobs but since they're too spread apart, you loose the first 2-3 that were chasing you before you can reach the sixth one.
2) The bigger problem is if's there's a caster in the group (happen often!), then the fight becomes a chore. You just can't ignore him and try to round up the melee around him because he won't folow you and his spells usually bypass most of your damange mitigation. You end up healing yourself instead of fighting and loosing mana at the same time.
I see 3 advantages:
1) Almost instant dungeon pickup as a tank.
2) Group quest done alone. This has to be seen to be believed! You can take on an elite the same lvl as you that would otherwise need at least 2 to 3 people to take down.
3) Clearing a tight pack of melee mob. Animals and undead (without caster) are great for that.
Feel free to tell me what change pass lvl 70. My guess is Divine Plea makes the mana more managable if you need to burn more mana on a certain mob.
Thanks,
Gtap
Too true. Spead out mobs are a pain. At that point I suggest you kick on a movie while your pally takes them to town in groups of 2 or less. Use less spells (mana) and... well, there it is. As I said before, prot is not the spec to lvl if you are into the speed end of it.
Casters are a tanks bane. We have two things going for us there though. Shield of the Templar will stop the casting, saddly it also slows their walk speed to get to you while they can't cast. But nun the less it's a way to pull casters to you and meet you half way between the meele and a caster. Two, they are clothies and die faster.
My first suggestion is to move your pts from Divine Sacrifice and Divine Guardian to Reckoning. It improves your mana regen from your seal and more white damage = faster kill. Honestly, I've never used Divine Sacrifice in 3 years of playing..... mmmmm... that will help when you spend more mana into a kill and also with the hits help with those nasty casters. Put on your Seal of Vengance and let it stack, switch over to your Seal of Wiz and regen that mana.
Another option is to switch to Seal of Justice with casters. The extra damage when you judge + reckoning kills faster and with the extra attack proc you have better odd of stunning them, stoping them from casting. A very under used seal if you ask me. Now these ideas are great when you are out farming, or doing that kill x of y quests, not in dungons. Though again, I never use Divine Guardian (I don't raid... and feel frankly that's the healers job to keep them up... again outside of raids), and love my reckoning. Can't tell you how many times it pops that extra attack. In 5 mans, it's great to stack that SoV and then tab target to another mob to build again too.
YES, you are so right in the downfalls of prot lvling. And yet I found that "From Paris With Love" was a great movie and have all the Chilled Meat I can cook :)
Another barrel of rum for my good friend the Captian!
Casters are a tanks bane. We have two things going for us there though. Shield of the Templar will stop the casting, saddly it also slows their walk speed to get to you while they can't cast. But nun the less it's a way to pull casters to you and meet you half way between the meele and a caster. Two, they are clothies and die faster.
My first suggestion is to move your pts from Divine Sacrifice and Divine Guardian to Reckoning. It improves your mana regen from your seal and more white damage = faster kill. Honestly, I've never used Divine Sacrifice in 3 years of playing..... mmmmm... that will help when you spend more mana into a kill and also with the hits help with those nasty casters. Put on your Seal of Vengance and let it stack, switch over to your Seal of Wiz and regen that mana.
Another option is to switch to Seal of Justice with casters. The extra damage when you judge + reckoning kills faster and with the extra attack proc you have better odd of stunning them, stoping them from casting. A very under used seal if you ask me. Now these ideas are great when you are out farming, or doing that kill x of y quests, not in dungons. Though again, I never use Divine Guardian (I don't raid... and feel frankly that's the healers job to keep them up... again outside of raids), and love my reckoning. Can't tell you how many times it pops that extra attack. In 5 mans, it's great to stack that SoV and then tab target to another mob to build again too.
YES, you are so right in the downfalls of prot lvling. And yet I found that "From Paris With Love" was a great movie and have all the Chilled Meat I can cook :)
Another barrel of rum for my good friend the Captian!
Reading about the above complaints about casters I thought I would chime in with my two copper.
Something that new tanks won't hear much about is Line of Sighting (LoS) mobs. LOSing is using the environment to your advantage. You pull the mobs with a taunt or Avenger's Shield and use a pillar or wall so the casters can't cast spells at you, forcing them to come into your aoe. The only place that I can think of in Wrath where this is commonly practiced is the LOS alcoves in Halls of Reflection. Great pre-Wrath instances to use this in are Scarlet Monastary, BRD, LBRS, Stratholme, The Scholomance, Hellfire Peninsula Ramparts.
Most people that started playing when Wrath came out won't be aware that prior to Wrath Paladin tanking was very, very difficult when it came to casters. Back then Avenger's Shield didn't silence it only dazed. LOSing packs of mobs that have a bunch of casters is an easy way to round them all up into your aoe. It requires dps to hold back (yes I know this is quite difficult for some pugs to grasp) but it can make certain runs that much easier. Just be aware of your healer's aggro as it is common for druids or priests to pull initial aggro from you when they place HoTs on their tank.
Also some other things to consider that haven't been brought up yet:
Most of the good tools needed to tank early on as a Paladin are picked between level 35 and 40 in the talent tree. Until you pick up Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanc and Spirital Attunement you will probably have issues going with mana. My second Paladin is now level 53 and I found that there was more utility in tanking as Ret until level 50 where I switched to a Prot spec for grinding instances. You can do this before level 40 but you will probably find it easier to hold aggro as a Ret Paladin prior to level 50 (Seal of Command + Righteous Fury are your friends as a Ret tank). You need to decide what is more important to you, threat or mitigation. That is the trade off between each tree as far as tanking goes, especially early on.
If you have level 80 toon/s then grind out the 2 pieces of heirloom plate and either the 2h axe or sword (depending on if you plan on going Prot or Ret initially). These pieces help a fair amount especially if you plan on tanking as Ret. Best enchant for these weapons is Crusader by far.
Pick the right Judgement for the job. Healer seems a little slack? Judge Light. Getting low on mana? Use Wisdom. Worried about mobs running off and bringing their buddies back? Use Justice.
Take criticism constructively. It may be coming from someone that has a tank as their main. Some people will help you. Some people may complement you. Some people will yell at you. Some people willhelp you pull mobs and wipe. Get used to it.
Some players take a while to pick up tanking and knowing instances is just about key to good tanking so for new players this can make it just that bit harder on you. Most tanks are expected to lead the instance and therefore are scrutinized a hell of a lot more than that bad dps sitting in the back with that Homer Simpson look on his face doing nothing. Tanking can be great fun and it can be a nightmare. Good luck and let us know how you progress.
TL;DR:
Learn how to LoS!
Get heirloom gear if you can, it will help!
Good luck!
Edited for spelling and clarity.
Edited, Aug 6th 2010 3:10pm by arthoriuss
Something that new tanks won't hear much about is Line of Sighting (LoS) mobs. LOSing is using the environment to your advantage. You pull the mobs with a taunt or Avenger's Shield and use a pillar or wall so the casters can't cast spells at you, forcing them to come into your aoe. The only place that I can think of in Wrath where this is commonly practiced is the LOS alcoves in Halls of Reflection. Great pre-Wrath instances to use this in are Scarlet Monastary, BRD, LBRS, Stratholme, The Scholomance, Hellfire Peninsula Ramparts.
Most people that started playing when Wrath came out won't be aware that prior to Wrath Paladin tanking was very, very difficult when it came to casters. Back then Avenger's Shield didn't silence it only dazed. LOSing packs of mobs that have a bunch of casters is an easy way to round them all up into your aoe. It requires dps to hold back (yes I know this is quite difficult for some pugs to grasp) but it can make certain runs that much easier. Just be aware of your healer's aggro as it is common for druids or priests to pull initial aggro from you when they place HoTs on their tank.
Also some other things to consider that haven't been brought up yet:
Most of the good tools needed to tank early on as a Paladin are picked between level 35 and 40 in the talent tree. Until you pick up Holy Shield, Blessing of Sanc and Spirital Attunement you will probably have issues going with mana. My second Paladin is now level 53 and I found that there was more utility in tanking as Ret until level 50 where I switched to a Prot spec for grinding instances. You can do this before level 40 but you will probably find it easier to hold aggro as a Ret Paladin prior to level 50 (Seal of Command + Righteous Fury are your friends as a Ret tank). You need to decide what is more important to you, threat or mitigation. That is the trade off between each tree as far as tanking goes, especially early on.
If you have level 80 toon/s then grind out the 2 pieces of heirloom plate and either the 2h axe or sword (depending on if you plan on going Prot or Ret initially). These pieces help a fair amount especially if you plan on tanking as Ret. Best enchant for these weapons is Crusader by far.
Pick the right Judgement for the job. Healer seems a little slack? Judge Light. Getting low on mana? Use Wisdom. Worried about mobs running off and bringing their buddies back? Use Justice.
Take criticism constructively. It may be coming from someone that has a tank as their main. Some people will help you. Some people may complement you. Some people will yell at you. Some people will
Some players take a while to pick up tanking and knowing instances is just about key to good tanking so for new players this can make it just that bit harder on you. Most tanks are expected to lead the instance and therefore are scrutinized a hell of a lot more than that bad dps sitting in the back with that Homer Simpson look on his face doing nothing. Tanking can be great fun and it can be a nightmare. Good luck and let us know how you progress.
TL;DR:
Learn how to LoS!
Get heirloom gear if you can, it will help!
Good luck!
Edited for spelling and clarity.
Edited, Aug 6th 2010 3:10pm by arthoriuss
LOS! I forgot about that one. But as I grew up in BC, guess I figured it to be like walking. It's just something you do after crawling.
Nice post btw. Good stuff.
Nice post btw. Good stuff.
In regards to tanking as a prot paladin and using LoS, I can tell you four places I commonly use LoS that helps alot in 5 man dungeons.
In the Halls of Stone.. once you enter the instance, you take your normal right, and reach that 4 way area. The area that leads to the Maiden of Grief (Hall of Repose), there are I believe 8 mobs, many of them casters, right there. If you aggro them and then run back around that rock that lead down to Krystallus, they will be force to come to you and it makes life so much easier.
In Old Kingdom, after you kill the first boss and the first pack of roaming Plundering Geists, there's a wall on the left with 3/4 caster type mobs.. you can pull them then hug that small alcove to the left and force them to come to you.
In Utgarde Pinnacle I think? The boss at the end that runs to each of the boats..? Well whatever zone that is, there is a ramp leading up to him... in that room where the bottom of the ramp starts, there are mobs that fear etc... you can pull packs of those caster mobs from that room where the ramp leads up to the boss, back down that hallway you came through and around the corner, thus preventing you from getting feared into extra mobs.
In the forge of souls, there is a giant circular room with like 5 mobs in it... it's shortly before you get to the first boss.. you can tag one of those mobs and pull them back out of the room out of LoS... it's that same area where so many ppl fall off of the edge there to their death lol :)
Anyway, there are probably other places I use it and forget I do it, but needless to say, it should be used as a great tool for pallies and all tanks since casters are so annoying.
In the Halls of Stone.. once you enter the instance, you take your normal right, and reach that 4 way area. The area that leads to the Maiden of Grief (Hall of Repose), there are I believe 8 mobs, many of them casters, right there. If you aggro them and then run back around that rock that lead down to Krystallus, they will be force to come to you and it makes life so much easier.
In Old Kingdom, after you kill the first boss and the first pack of roaming Plundering Geists, there's a wall on the left with 3/4 caster type mobs.. you can pull them then hug that small alcove to the left and force them to come to you.
In Utgarde Pinnacle I think? The boss at the end that runs to each of the boats..? Well whatever zone that is, there is a ramp leading up to him... in that room where the bottom of the ramp starts, there are mobs that fear etc... you can pull packs of those caster mobs from that room where the ramp leads up to the boss, back down that hallway you came through and around the corner, thus preventing you from getting feared into extra mobs.
In the forge of souls, there is a giant circular room with like 5 mobs in it... it's shortly before you get to the first boss.. you can tag one of those mobs and pull them back out of the room out of LoS... it's that same area where so many ppl fall off of the edge there to their death lol :)
Anyway, there are probably other places I use it and forget I do it, but needless to say, it should be used as a great tool for pallies and all tanks since casters are so annoying.
What's really annoying me in regards to casters is the idiotic daze effect from Avenger's Shield because thanks to it, casters usually end up still being right outside melee range when the silence wears off. Really wish they had used the glyph to remove the effect rather than reducing targets and increasing damage.
I'm a BE so i have arcane torrent, it's beautiful for tanking casters. Apart from line of sight forcing them into range, the only advice i can think of is fight on the casters, aggro the melee then run them to the casters and try to stand in a position where your aoe abilities will hit as many casters as possible. It's something you eventually get a good feel for, you'll start to see the best place in any pull to make your stand.
Never forget holy wrath too, so many undead casters around.
Never forget holy wrath too, so many undead casters around.
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