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Cataclysm Talent Tree (revised - 31pt)Follow

#27 Jul 19 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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mbam is nothing new, it is Missile Barrage Arcane Missiles


Edited, Jul 19th 2010 3:43pm by Anobix
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#28 Jul 21 2010 at 4:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Finally got my Nelf Mage to level 10 (Quests were broken previously).
Cast time for Pyro is 2.76 seconds. Cast time for Fireball is 1.97 seconds. Fireball does 30-36 damage. Pyro does 60-65 damage.
There is certainly enough of a difference in the two spells to have Pyro as the specialty skill.
Puddles starts out at a 1 minute duration.
Abarr does 51-58 damage, and has a 100% chance of activating AM.
Fire gets Molten Shield early as one of their specialties.
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#29 Jul 21 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Good
How's the mana usage of spamming ABarr and AM? Does it eat it up significantly more than the spells for the other two specs?
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#30 Jul 21 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some pretty significant changes here:

Arcane

* Mage Armor is now trained at level 68. Up from 64.
-- I didn't realize we had to wait until WotLK to train mage armor...
* Arcane Explosion is now trained at level 58. Up from 56.
-- When did this happen, do we just Blizzard/FS then?
* Mana Shield is now trained at level 46. Down from 52.
-- /shrug, survivability
* Arcane Intellect is now trained at level 52. Up from 48.
-- don't see the reason for this
* Conjure Mana Gem is now trained at level 48. Up from 46.
-- or this
* Slow Fall is now trained at level 32. Up from 26.
-- or this


Fire

* Frostfire Bolt is now trained at level 56. Down from 68.
-- I guess this will be good for frost
* Molten Armor is now trained at level 64. Up from 54.
-- so another armor held off until midway through outland
* Scorch is now trained at level 26. Down from 32.
-- k.


Frost

* Frost Nova is now trained at level 8. Down from 9.
-- OOOOOOOH
* Frostbolt is now trained at level 7. Down from 8.
-- OH WOW
* Frost Armor is now trained at level 54. Up from 7.
-- wut?


As for new talent changes... didn't appear to be many, besides a pre-req here and there.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage#vm-KBJarI,,12539

is pretty much what I have come up with for a fire pve build, could move the point from blastwave to imp flamestrike I suppose for 2/2.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage#vAy3tQfP,,12539

is the best I could do for arcane, it is an absolute mess for PvE right now: needing to take a ton of random talents to fill out the tree.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage#15Ui0jP_,,12539

Is my frost pve build, frost actually has a bunch of situational talents that may not be very useful in raids, so it is difficult to split them and get the necessary talents.

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 8:02am by Anobix

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 8:02am by Anobix

Edited, Jul 21st 2010 8:12am by Anobix
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#31 Jul 21 2010 at 6:02 AM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
What the Arcane tree needs right now is more talent names that start with 'Arcane'.
And another new icon for Mage Armor.

No, I'm not bitter.


Quote:
How's the mana usage of spamming ABarr and AM? Does it eat it up significantly more than the spells for the other two specs?
I was kinda wondering that myself. I'd love to see it tweaked to make Arcane the mobile attack tree when soloing. Has anyone run numbers on the low level version of the spell?
#32 Jul 21 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage#vAy3tQfP,,12539

is the best I could do for arcane, it is an absolute mess for PvE right now: needing to take a ton of random talents to fill out the tree.

I like that, tbh. It allows you to get all the LOL+DAMAGE talents to do well in PvE but still allows you to get preferred PvP talents. A stun on your poly because of those hasty DPS? Speed when blinking to have an easier time of moving out of the fire? Heck, an instant Invisibility for those fights where it's oh-so useful.
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#33 Jul 21 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Finally got into a dungeon on my frostie. I can REALLY say that I want recount available.
Currently, Fingers of Frost is so ******* broken that it's honestly a little funny.
The only way to get FoF to eat a charge is to deep freeze.... a non immune mob. Other than that, you can cast all the spells you want and stay at 2 charges.
This is significant, because Ice Lance is now a competent spell when the mobs are frozen.

A single FoFed IL does around 5K, crits for around 9-10K. A single fofed frostbolt does around 4K, crits for around 8K. IL has NO cooldown aside from the GCD. So, spamming IL and DF on a boss with FoF up means I can literally watch the health tick down as I spam IL crits (around 99% of IL are crits during FoF on the beta).
This is OBVIOUSLY glitched, there's no way they'd let it actually stay like that, where for 15 seconds you get free 'uberdeeps.'
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#34 Jul 21 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
* Frost Armor is now trained at level 54. Up from 7.
-- wut?


Uh-huh. Either it'll be trainable after ice armor, its straight-upgrade, or they're switching the two around so FA is the better one just to ***** with people.

...Or they're going to move ice armor up even further and have no armor spells available until 54.
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#35 Jul 21 2010 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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Fire, for LOW level mages first getting specialties, gets Molten Armor upon speccing it. I assume, then, all of the armors will go to their respective class at level 10. We can hope they're updating Frost / Ice shield to be useful for DPS....
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#36 Jul 21 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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pyro still has its cooldown right??

so the cast times have been changed. well now that you no longer get pyro and have PoM, they can finally change the cast times.

was the Combustion changes in the earlier talent trees posted? looks soooo much better and clean too.

One confirmed crit (spend it on a pyro) and you get a merged DoT (which solves some of the lost dps due to ignite overwriting) for 10s (which may mean a dps increase).

know what... I may really come back to the game. *rubs hands
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bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#37 Jul 21 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
pyro still has its cooldown right??

Wait, what?

Pyro hasn't had a cooldown since... TBC, or something? And this;
Quote:
so the cast times have been changed. well now that you no longer get pyro and have PoM, they can finally change the cast times.

makes no sense at all? What are you trying to say? Now that you no longer can obtain an instant pyro (which was an underpowered spec in WOTLK in the first place), it makes sense that they... lower the cast time of Pyro?

Forgive me if I come across apprehensive or offensive here; It might just be me being tired again, but I really can't make sense of what you're saying. Feel free to elaborate.
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#38 Jul 21 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, that makes no sense. Just so you know cancer, insta-pyros are an important part of Fire Mage DpS RIGHT NOW, due to the Hot Streak talent.

Less DpS per cast than Living Bomb, but far more than Fireball (it hits slightly harder and has a cast time that's equal to your GCD).
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#39 Jul 22 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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well I had been under the notion that pyro had to have a 6 sec cast due to PoM... dunno just a feeling I had.

kinda recall that pyro had a cooldown, might have been removed when they introduced hot streak. 6s was what I remember as it's cd...

Yes, I know hot-streak pyro is an important part of Fire spec dps. I played that basically all the way in 1st half of TBC/WotLK. With a severely reduced cast time 2.67s(?), it will be much more useful since opening with pyro will be less time consuming.
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bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#40 Jul 22 2010 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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pyro only had a cooldown when you had the fire talent that allowed for super-fast pyro casts when you were below 25(30)% hp - which no one in their right mind took.
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#41 Jul 22 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
well I had been under the notion that pyro had to have a 6 sec cast due to PoM... dunno just a feeling I had.

I don't mind 'feelings', as I work with them a lot, but... this makes no sense? What are you saying? That because it was possible to launch instant Pyroblasts in a specific spec, it should mean that all other Pyroblasts cast would need to have a huge cast timer?

Pyroblast has always been about "cooking up a huge meteor and exploding someones face", and that's why it has/had such a long cast timer. This notion made it a horrible spell for the majoriy of the game, but I do very much reckon that's the design philosophy behind it.
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#42 Jul 22 2010 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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alright enough abt me rambling over Pyro's cast time and how it was rationalised.

MMO champ class changes

Arcane

* Spellsteal now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Arcane Barrage now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Polymorph now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Mana Shield now has a 10 sec cooldown.
* Arcane Blast now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Slow Fall now has a 40 yards range. Up from 30 yards.
* Counterspell now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Arcane Missiles now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Focus Magic now is a Tier 4 talent. Down from Tier 6.
* Incanter's Absorption now is a Tier 4 Talent. Down from Tier 5. Additional effect - In addition, when your Mana Shield is destroyed, all enemies within 6 yards are knocked back 12 yards.
* Slow now has a 35 yards range. Up from 30 yards.
* Arcane Flows now is a Tier 3 talent. Down from Tier 5.
* Invocation now is a Tier 2 Talent. Down from Tier 4.
* Improved Counterspell now is a Tier 1 talent. Down from Tier 3.
* Arcane Repulsion is gone.
* Arcane Concentration is now a 3-rank talents (Up from 2) and now has a 3/6/10% chance to proc.
* Torment the Weak is now a Tier 5 talent. Up from Tier 1. Now only boosts the damage of Arcane damage spells.
* Nether Vortex *New* - Gives your Arcane Blast spell a 50/100% chance to apply the Slow spell to any target it damages if no target is currently affected by Slow.


Fire

* Flamestrike now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Scorch now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Pyroblast now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Fire Blast now has a 30 yards range. Up from 20 yards.
* Fireball now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Living Bomb now has a 40 yards range. Up from 35 yards.
* Blazing Speed now is a Tier 2 Talent. Down from Tier 3.
* Burning Soul now is a Tier 1 talent. Down from Tier 2.
* Impact now is a Tier 3 Talent. Up from Tier 2.
* Improved Fire Blast now is a Tier 2 Talent. Up from Tier 1.
* Incineration now increases damage instead of critical strike chance.


Frost

* Ice Lance now has a 35 yards range. Up from 30 yards.
* Blizzard now has a 35 yards range. up from 30 yards.
* Frostbolt now has a 35 yards range. Up from 30 yards.
* Frostfire Orb has an additional effect - Targets damaged by the Frostfire Orb are slowed by 40% for 2 sec.
* Cold as Ice is gone.
* Ice Floes now also affects Cold Snap and Ice Barrier.
* Piercing Chill is now a Tier 2 Talent. Down from Tier 4.
* Brain Freeze is now a Tier 3 talent. Down from Tier 4.
* Fingers of Frost is now a Tier 4 talent. Up from Tier 3.
* Piercing Ice is now a Tier 1 Talent. Down from Tier 2.
* Frostbite is gone.
* Improved Freeze *New* - Gives your Water Elemental's Freeze spell a 50/100% chance to cause Fingers of Frost to activate.
* Improved Cone of Cold *New* - Your Cone of Cold also freezes targets for 2/4 secs.


No more Frostbite... that is going to be very strange. Oh btw, seems like Fire mages will not be using arcane missile given how the new hot streak works. fair exchange? (did I just work a FMA reference in??)

Arcane is getting a few rather interesting PvP talents...

thoughts?
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Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#43 Jul 22 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Nothing hugely new, I'd say. Arcane Repulsion was put into Incanter's Absorption, which means the Arcane PvP spec is still more or less the same.

The only thing I'm curious about is what the 'point' of Nether Vortex is. In raids, you won't need this, and in PvP... You generally apply Slow before you even attempt getting off an Arcane Blast?
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#44 Jul 22 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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I am thinking that it is used to refresh it on a slowed target. which brings to mind DR timer...

another experiment perhaps
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Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#45 Jul 22 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I am thinking that it is used to refresh it on a slowed target.

Ah, of course. That's stupidly obvious and I didn't even think of it. I still see Arcane as this 'ultimate-glass-cannon' powerhouse where it's 3-shot or be 3-shot. Which is a position it will obviously no longer have in Cataclysm, so refreshing Slows make sense.

On another note; I thought slow had no diminishing returns?
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#46 Jul 22 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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oh really??

I never use my mage in pvp so I would not know. as a snare debuff, I would assume it to be in the dr thing.

even if the slow is not going to stick, the defuff should and thus allow for damage bonus.

i am thinking... cast slow, Arcane Barrage, AM, ABlast. saving PoM poly for a control target. In any case, I dun pvp much and my theories on it are at best theories...
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Rejoice. For very bad things are about to happen...
bodhisattva, Defender of Justice wrote:

The first week he was all "ZOMG just happy to be here, killing bosses! I just want to raid", 2nd week there was grumbling, 3rd week he is about ready to emoplode


tigole wrote:
You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
#47 Jul 23 2010 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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If they move Ablast training up and with a slow I can see it becoming a worthwhile leveling talent.
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#48 Jul 29 2010 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, so here's my experience with fire on a training dummy.

Since Hot Streak is now any 3 crits within 6 seconds, you basically end up alternating between Fireball and Pyro. SOMETIMES you'll need to throw two FBs before you can pyro. My crit chance is 40%, though. But LB now can crit by default.

Other than that, it's basically the exact same fire we have now. I'll leave jay to report on Frost. Sometime later I'll investigate Mage Fire/Arcane leveling.
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#49 Jul 29 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Since Hot Streak is now any 3 crits within 6 seconds

Quote:
any 3 crits

Could you define that? As in ignite tick crits (wait, do these actually exist?) contribute towards Hot Streak again as well? And Living Bomb's periodical damage?
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#50 Jul 29 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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I was literally getting a HS proc every other cast, so I assume ignite (if it can crit, counts). Living Bomb definitely counts.
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#51 Jul 29 2010 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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It seems like the 'arcane missiles' components are buggy, and proccing whenever the **** they feel like it. This is Arcane Missiles, Brain Freeze, and Hot Streak.
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Cicorest, Mage||Das Führer, DK||Nalgas, Rogue
^Cenarian Circle^
1983 Mazda RX7 GSL - Rexie - My Garage

"Saying that a druid can go resto and do well in arena and saying that a hunter can't do the same doesn't make any sense whatsoever." - Wait
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