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If you don't know, I made it into beta. Is there anything DK related you all want to know?



I can tell you right up front, the Frost tree is different, and in the 1st line of the Blood tree lets you up Diseases to stay on target for a pretty long time.
Deep into frost tree there is an option to increase (er, not 100% on this part) the power of a 2 handed weapon. I found it odd.

Goblin and Worgen DKs look silly. IMO, they should just not be >.> but as long as they make some lore up I guess it will work out.

According to the blue posts, their aim is for Frost to be just as viable 2-handed as DW, so that DpS have 2 options for 2-handers and 1 for DW. I mean, Frost NOW isn't a large DpS loss to go 2-hander. Last I looked at EJ (which, admittedly, was awhile ago but nothing has changed but the new RS gear), 2-handed Frost was only like 100-400 DpS below DW, and better at some gear levels/encounters even in ICC.

And I have to say, I'd be pissed if this wasn't the case. DW was always supposed to be optional with DKs. People wanting to go 2-hand shouldn't have ONLY 1 option.

How is the new rune system? Does it suck as much as I imagine it does? I really hope to get into beta just to try it, so I know if I want to get Cata or not.

And Maz, HB is still Frost. The talent trees are up on MMO-Champion (and possibly WoWHead). Actually, none of the trees themselves are that different. Even Blood hasn't changed a ton (though more than the other two).

Edited, Jul 5th 2010 9:17pm by idiggory

Just a few comments about the (imo crappy) talent trees MMOC has up:

1. I CANNOT believe they left UB as the terrible talent it is. Sure, 10% on an ability is nice. But I'm disgusted by it as a 21 pointer (though I don't PvP much, so maybe I'm jaded). They should have given us the old one back, if it is true that AoE won't be as common in Cata.

2. The new Sudden Doom sucks. A lot.

3. A FIVE point talent to give you a FORTY percent chance to activate a RANDOM rune? Seriously?

4. Annihilation is now one of the most boring talents to ever appear in any talent tree.

5. Pillar of Frost is an awesome CD. Too bad it takes a Frost rune (LOL-ONE-AT-A-TIME).

6. Acclimation is unchanged? SERIOUSLY?

7. Lol, they moved Vendetta to tier 1 and renamed it. WHY?

8. Why is BCB now randomly blood? Since when did anyone see it and think "Huh, awesome tank talent?"

9. They moved RT deeper into the tree... Because it was such a hot commodity?

10. It's weak that our crit-immunity is only active while in Blood Presence (Meaning FP). Should be a passive.

11. Blood Parasite is that deep in the tree? It looks like crap.

12. Heart Strike has a double cleave now. Which is interesting, considering the fact that Blizz has been complaining about Blood getting "additional damage on AoE fights" for the last year.

13. Will of the Necropolis looks like crap now. Dropping below 40% health now gives you a bigger threat increase than survivability. SERIOUSLY?

14. DRW looks like crap. We have a talent that gives IBF +30% mitigation, but the 51 point is +20% Parry? That's just terrible. [EDIT] Did I mention it was still 12 seconds? Yup, +20% Parry for 12 seconds every min for 60 RP. That's basically just the T10 set bonus, except that it isn't free and won't buff your tanking ability in any other way. [/EDIT]

Frankly, if this is how things go through to launch, I won't be here for Cata. The class just looks like it was destroyed to me.

[EDIT]

Oh yeah, and did I mention that you are totally f*cked if you want to go sub blood? You know, where 2-handed Spec, BS, BCB and Bladed Armor are? You get to choose between Blade Barrier, Vendetta and Butchery! Wow, those are just all SO useful for a DpS.

Edited, Jul 6th 2010 1:05am by idiggory

These look to be the same talents in beta.

I don't remember what the current time is for diseases to be on a target?

With the talent in Cata, it is at 45sec. via Epidemic

The new Rune system isn't that bad. I have to work to get my bonus from 4pc t10 to proc.

The spec I am.

That 2h option I said in the OP


Here is Blood ,Frost, andunholy pres.

Edited, Jul 6th 2010 11:28am by Sandinmygum

So Blood AOE tanking is still restricted to the inefficient DnD > IT > PS > Pest rotation with absolutely zero snap aggro?

Great.

Yeah, Blood Boil is already the "snap" aggro tool of Blood tanking, although not really effective. The problem is that you need to get diseases up before Blood Boil really does any decent aggro. The DnD > IT > PS > Pest rotation is what most Blood DKs run with in heroics currently. The problem is that once you hit Pestilence, you're out of runes and have to wait for the Blood rune from the DnD to refresh, giving you a single Blood boil until the Blood rune from Pestilence refreshes, which takes forever. By then, any decent DPS will have multiple mobs chewing on their faces.

With the new rune system, after using the first Blood Boil (the one from the refreshed DnD Blood rune), one would then have to wait even longer for it to refresh itself.

Or am I missing a major part of the new rune system concept? What if you spend a rune when the second identical rune is almost refreshed? Will it cancel the timer on the second rune and start over on the first, or will the first rune gain the second rune's remaining time?

Let me try to rephrase it so you know what I mean.

Currently:

B ------ 
B ------ 
F ------ 
F ------ 
U ------ 
U ------

B = Blood, F = Frost, U = Unholy and the hyphen indicates how full the rune is (sort of reverse countdown), each dash representing one second.

So I use Blood Boil

B 
B ------

I then use Blood Boil again.

B -- 
B

Now I have to wait four seconds (----) for the first rune to refresh itself, making it look like this:

B ------ 
B ----

Cataclysm:

B ------ B ------ 
F ------ F ------ 
U ------ U ------

Again I use Blood Boil.

B ------ B

The first rune is still full and so the second rune starts to fill up. After two seconds, it would look something like:

B ------ B --

Now I use Blood Boil again and here's where I can't wrap my head around it. Does it:

a) Look like this?

B        B --

b) This?

B --     B

c) Or this?

B        B

In other words, if the second rune is filling up and you use the first full one, does the second rune reset and the first rune starts to fill up, or is the remaining time from the second rune transferred to the first rune?

Did that make any sense?

Edit: Sorry for the massive post. pre-tags and I are not the best of buddies today.

Edited, Jul 7th 2010 3:09am by Mazra

Ok, so using your system this is how Runes refresh. Each "-" = a second, and the Underscore "_" is just empty.

B - - - - - B - - - - -

You use a Blood rune:
B _________ B - - - - -

You use another one:

B - -_____ B _________

Now you wait:

B - - - - - <-until the 1st one fills up. It takes 5 seconds for it to fill up. ONCE it fills up, the 2nd one will start to fill up -> B - - ____

Until you are back to

B - - - - - B - - - - -

The first use of both, the 1st Rune will start to fill up like in the 3rd bold line. After the 1st use, it is a back and forth on waiting for a Rune to refresh.
I'm charging some batteries up, I'll just try and make a Video of the system (or if anyone knows a free screen capture program, tell me it)

Sounds like how they work now.

From the way I read the preview, the new system would always fill up Rune 1 before it would fill up Rune 2. So my question is, if Rune 2 is recharging and you spend Rune 1, what happens to Rune 2?

Also, with the newly released information that Blizzard is going to completely revamp the talent system instead of the current moderations seen to the existing talent trees, here's hoping they'll fix Blood's AOE rotation.

That is how it works, from what I can tell.

Say you enter battle with two BRs, and use them both.

You will get one of them 5 seconds after it is spent, and the other 5 seconds after that. The idea is that you don't lose DpS by not using your rune instantly, because you will always have one "recharging" as long as both aren't off CD.

So, imagine a current rotation like U>F>FU>B>B>RP>FU>FU>FU>RP

Entering combat, the first set is possible. However, look at the FU section. You will only have one of each rune available there, rather than 2 (for a total of 6).

So, instead, your opening sequence is:

U>F>FU>B>B>RP>FU>B>RP>FU>B

At least, that's how I understand it.

As such, our abilities use different runes now. For example, SS is just 1 Unholy Rune.

So, it would be like:

IT>PS>SS>BS>BS>? (open Frost rune)>RP>SS>BS>(open frost rune)>RP>SS>BS>RP

And I think that's dumb as hell. We basically use strikes that are 2x as powerful 1/2x the amount of time, and fill in all (lol not all) those open GCDs with our RP abilities and hope we get procs from the rune refresh talents.

I'm so not a fan of this system in theory. And, btw, DC is still 40 RP. How much are these abilities returning Sand?

[EDIT]



Lol, you missed a strike.

But after watching the video...

I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT.

Edited, Jul 7th 2010 10:29pm by idiggory

No, overall we were going to end up with fewer used GCDs. The idea was that they could make RP abilities matter, rather than just be a dump, and make room for the occasional "interesting" ability to be used.

I fail to see how this makes RP matter any more. And they haven't implemented anything yet that could be considered an interesting RP ability.

From what I saw:

Cataclysm:

* Rune 1 is used and goes on CD
* Rune 2 is used and goes on CD where is pauses
* Rune 1 is refreshed
* Rune 2 begins to refresh
* Rune 1 is used and goes on CD where is pauses

So only one rune of each type can refresh at the same time and the other rune will not begin to refresh until after the first is done.

Basically, we get to use less rune attacks per minute, giving us more time to spend on runic power attacks. And I'm assuming they've somehow amped up something to make up for runes now basically recharging half as fast as before.

Makes sense. The Death Knight class would feel like less of a Rogue and more like a Warrior. I might like it - depending on what they do to Blood AOE.

You don't run many heroics lately, do you?

Frost's excellence doesn't just lie in the ability to apply decent AOE damage and a disease on multiple targets, but also the fact that you have a chance to proc a free one of those. Compare it to Blood having a chance on Death Strike to remove the cooldown on DnD and make it cost no runes.

Being able to get off 4-5 Howling Blast within a heroic trash fight is what makes Frost such an amazing AOE spec. And it's what absolutely kills Blood for me. I've tried it all. Spamming Blood Boil, spreading diseases first, popping DnD early on a new pack. None of it can measure up to Frost's snap aggro and I have no yet run a single heroic where a DPS didn't pull aggro before my first Blood rune refreshed.

As for using Blood Boil first, wouldn't it be just as efficient to throw down DnD first? Whether you use Blood Boil first and then DnD or DnD and then Blood Boil, I really don't see the difference. Except if you throw down DnD first, you have some time to apply diseases and spread them before the DPS pulls them off you.

If you can hold aggro against a typical heroic PUG then I'd say you're either very over-geared compared to me (5k GS, give or take), or found some secret .allaggro code. It's just not possible.

Bears don't get much AE potency, and Warriors are a bit lackluster when it comes to AE threat. If you mean that 3/4 tanks don't have snap AE threat, I'll agree with you.