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What do rogues have over hunter?Follow

#1 May 13 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
Now this is purely from a PvE raiding standpoint. One thing I now is that rogue misdirect is better. It gives 10% damage increase, and lasts for quite a bit. Other than that though, what do rogues have that you might say is better than what a hunter can do?

Hunters have range, which means they can switch targets when needed very fast without having to run around. Generally in raids, I see them come out on top on dps unless the fight is a single target tank 'n spank, and I'm a tad envious.

I figure the hunter forum is the best place to ask, because I know if anyone, you'll have those things you've seen that you wish hunters could do. :P Basically I'm just wondering what makes the two classes a little more individual in their niche besides just straight dps clones.
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#2 May 13 2010 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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Hunters have a pet and wear mail where rogues are all alone and wear leather, but they can stealth.
Hunters will be able to semi stealth in cataclysm though.
And hunters use mana, rogues use energy.












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#3 May 13 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Default
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That icky stuff they slather on.
#4 May 13 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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For one thing, Hunters have more utility in boss fights than Rogues. I'm not talking about buffs, which I believe are quite similar, but a well-played Hunter is a supreme kiter, which is required for things like kiting Saurfang's blood beasts or Gluth's zombies in Naxx.

Hunter MD may be weaker than Rogues', particularly when it comes to sticking large trash packs to the tank at the start of a pull, but being ranged, it's also more versatile. If an unexpected patrol turns up, a Hunter can quickly have it heading for the tank instead of your squishy healers.

Hunters are, IMO, much harder to play well than Rogues. The rotation/priority system is probably more complex than for Rogues, and being a pet class, they can't just ignore what's happening next to the boss, even if pets do have a lot of AoE damage avoidance these days.

Player skill will have a much larger impact on a Hunter's DPS than it will for a Rogue. I'm a bit pants at this game, which is why I switched my main from Hunter to Rogue in BC - it's just a simpler playstyle. Not as simple as some of the lolpewpew ranged classes, mind you, but definitely easier than mastering the art of being a Hunter.
#5 May 14 2010 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
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zhaharik wrote:
Hunters are, IMO, much harder to play well than Rogues. The rotation/priority system is probably more complex than for Rogues, and being a pet class, they can't just ignore what's happening next to the boss, even if pets do have a lot of AoE damage avoidance these days.
Stop flattering yourself, hunters are **** easy to play.
Volley if 4+ targets > Serpent sting if not up on all 2/3 mobs > Chimera shot (> Kill Shot) > Aimed shot (Multi if 2/3 targets) > steady shot x4.
Add an arcane shot when you're moving and a snake and explosive trap if you can pre-set them and that's it.
You can ignore your pet 9/10 times anyway.

In fact, the hardest part of playing a hunter is stacking your cooldowns and procs right, which is something all dps classes have to do.
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#6 May 15 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
Well see, this is the thing. I already knew quite a few things hunters have over rogues, but I'm wondering what rogues have over hunters. Right now, it seems fairly one-sided.


Having both a rogue and hunter at 80, I really don't think hunters are harder to play. Of course, my rogue is my best geared character, and my hunter is my worst geared 80, maybe in competition for worst geared 80 in my guild! I don't play it that much, so I'm no hunter pro by leagues, but I understand how to do it and what is needed to be done. It's not harder than rogue.
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#7 May 15 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
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I'd have to say Hunters are more complicated, even if not by much.

Rogue Priorities:

Mut
Is HfB up? Then get it up.
Is SnD up? Then get it up.
Do you have 4+ CP? Then use Envenom.
Is TotT up? Then use it.
Use Mutilate.

Combat
Is SnD up? Then get it up.
Have 5 CP? Then Eviserate.
Are CDs up? Then use them (avoiding AR and KS at once, though)
Use Sinister Strike.

They do get more complicated, of course, but these are the basic rotations.

In practice, Mut Rogues are probably the easiest spec to play. You use one ability every minute, another every 30 seconds, another once per battle (if you don't need to drop combat so long that SnD falls) and then alternate using 1 for 3-4 GCDs than another. Oh yeah, and you'll vanish two or three times a battle to get a buff. I can't think of a single spec less complicated. The closes it Arcane Mage, which is still harder, since there's a huge variation in its rotation due to randomness, and you need to learn how to effectively time 4 or 5 CDs.

Combat Rogues are harder than Mut, sure, but still simpler than Hunters I think. Use SnD if it is about to fall, or isn't even up. Other than that, Eviscerate when you have 5 CP, and SS to get there. Use your CDs as they become available, so long as you don't use Adrenaline Rush and Killing Spree at once).

The class makes up for its simplicity by being fast paced. Your GCD is 33% shorter, so you need to hit buttons faster. But it is still easier to get the rotation down than most other classes. That isn't to say there aren't challenging aspects to it, of course, like learning how to stealth/sap/blind effectively, etc. But if we are just looking at a tank and spank boss, I would be more confident as a new Rogue than a new Hunter.

One thing is for sure--playing Kitties definitely doesn't feel like playing a Rogue clone anymore. :P
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#8 May 15 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
I find Combat much easier than mutilate. :P
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#9 May 16 2010 at 2:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Lame argument is lame, no class is hard to play because of rotation except for kitty druids.
The only hard part is how you maximize your dps uptime, how you stack your cooldowns and how you follow the tactics of a fight.
Which means that on a fight like say Lady Deathwhisper, hunters are easier to play well than a rogue, on Saurfang rogues are easier to play than hunters.
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#10 May 16 2010 at 10:54 PM Rating: Good
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Fair. Though some can get much more annoying than others, like Enhancement Shaman.

Quote:
I find Combat much easier than mutilate. :P


Huh? HOW?
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#11 May 17 2010 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
I think mainly because I have been doing it a lot longer. The main problem with mutilate is HfB makes me angry.
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#12 May 17 2010 at 7:41 AM Rating: Good
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Because it is 33% as effective as it was a year ago? Or because you just don't like having to recast a buff every minute?
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#13 May 17 2010 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Lame argument is lame, no class is hard to play because of rotation except for kitty druids.
God, I hate dpsing on my druid. I'll stick to tanking and healing thank you.
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#14 May 18 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Good
Because its a horrible bandaid excuse for a 51 point talent that is an insult to rogues everywhere.

More of an insult than the subtlety tree. :P

Edited, May 17th 2010 11:01pm by digitalcraft
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#15 May 20 2010 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Lame argument is lame, no class is hard to play because of rotation except for kitty druids.
The only hard part is how you maximize your dps uptime, how you stack your cooldowns and how you follow the tactics of a fight.
Which means that on a fight like say Lady Deathwhisper, hunters are easier to play well than a rogue, on Saurfang rogues are easier to play than hunters.


Rogues have to juggle a lot of the same things that kitties do. Only reason I'd call them easier is because their abilities don't lean as heavily on each other so small screwups don't cause the entire thing to collapse.
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#16 Aug 01 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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Pure boss DPS with everything balanced, a rogue should come out on top in DPS. T6 and T6.5 were balanced pretty much perfectly, and that's where you saw rogues pulling #1 DPS.

It may not be by much (1% difference), but a rogue should still beat a hunter in a straight-up DPS race with equal gear.

That's pretty much it. Otherwise, bring a mage, lock, hunter, or whatever else.

Arguing about DPS cycles is stupid, BTW. All classes have incredibly easy DPS cycles, and always have. No, you're not special if you can do a DPS cycle. You're just not a window-licker.
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#17 Oct 06 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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