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Halls of Reflection = blind bearFollow
I'm having a terrible time tanking that first fight - hiding in the corner my camera angles are so limited and I can't see the mobs I'm tanking half the time - is it better to just stand out in the open as a bear, go full first person or what?
You don't hide in the corners, your party does. You stand out front so they aggro you first and then you can taunt and use the walls to pull in the mage/hunter mobs as needed.
I've gone over to just tanking the stuff out in the open. Sometimes it works, sometimes the PUG fails bad and we wipe. It's no different from LOS tanking, though, and much less frustrating being the tank since if people die it's not because you couldn't see ****, but because they fail (or you do, but that's like the last option available, right?).
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Speaking of Halls of Reflection, does anyone have issues healing that place? If not, mind sharing your tactics with a frustrated colleague?
I can't, for the love of god, get that instance down right. I'm in T9 (ilvl 232) with a GS of 4832, but that place drains me every single time. It can go all nice for a couple of waves and then crap just happens. Usually it's when the tank suddenly folds to a damage spike. I saw a Death Knight with 38k health go from 90% to 0% before I could do anything but drop my jaw. Seriously, I didn't even have time to move my mouse cursor over his frame and hit my insta-HT button. He got one-shot, except he's crit immune (541 defense) and decked in T9 as well.
How am I supposed to heal that? Seriously, if a crit immune tanking class can get one-shot by an encounter, how the hell do I counter that? As mentioned, it can go well for a couple of waves and suddenly it just goes south. I tried switching to a tactic that involved spamming Nourish the moment one of the Mercs stunned him, but then everyone else started to drop from the AOE damage. I was rolling Rejuvs and Wild Growth spamming Nourish inbetween. Ran out of mana twice in four spawns and all for nothing when the tank took 40k damage in a second all of a sudden. I had 1.5m Healing Done for the first half of the spawn event. 2.5m before we came through. We wiped three times.
I can't, for the love of god, get that instance down right. I'm in T9 (ilvl 232) with a GS of 4832, but that place drains me every single time. It can go all nice for a couple of waves and then crap just happens. Usually it's when the tank suddenly folds to a damage spike. I saw a Death Knight with 38k health go from 90% to 0% before I could do anything but drop my jaw. Seriously, I didn't even have time to move my mouse cursor over his frame and hit my insta-HT button. He got one-shot, except he's crit immune (541 defense) and decked in T9 as well.
How am I supposed to heal that? Seriously, if a crit immune tanking class can get one-shot by an encounter, how the hell do I counter that? As mentioned, it can go well for a couple of waves and suddenly it just goes south. I tried switching to a tactic that involved spamming Nourish the moment one of the Mercs stunned him, but then everyone else started to drop from the AOE damage. I was rolling Rejuvs and Wild Growth spamming Nourish inbetween. Ran out of mana twice in four spawns and all for nothing when the tank took 40k damage in a second all of a sudden. I had 1.5m Healing Done for the first half of the spawn event. 2.5m before we came through. We wiped three times.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
My attempts at healing H HoR have gone best if I have one of the DPS set to cleanse duty. Just someone to lend an extra hand by getting the poison or curses off of people during the first part. Really, is more of a survival thing than a DPS race in the beginning anyway. If people who can CC do so, hunters MD to the tank, etc. it goes surprisingly well. *shrugs* We don't have a problem with this when my guild does it, but I can have a hard time convincing PuG DPS to do anything but lay down the hurt.
My bad runs usually involve a tank having problems with gathering mobs during the LoS pulls, or running somewhere unexpected while I have my camera dancing around thanks to the wall (since we're on that subject too...). A good tank makes all the difference in there IMO. I can't say I've ever had a tank get 1-shoted on me, so I could only speculate on what happened there (had the +50% magic damage curse on him? *shrugs*).
If the group decides to do a LoS pull, I'm concentrating heavily on tank heals and throwing down WG at every CD to help the DPS out. I'll remove the poison from the DPS if/when I have a spare GCD (the time when having a cleanse b!%(# helps ;-D), then I'll throw some RJ around if the tank damage isn't too high. I usually end up hitting Tranquility frequently during the first 10 waves.
In my experience, wipes happen when the tank misses adds and I get pummeled repeatedly. Meaning I'm healing me and not him, and that's no good... If I lose anyone it's usually the DPS, which isn't really the end of the world, since the first 2 bosses seem to be 3-manned fairly easily. Usually it's the DPS who are pulling aggro, or not breaking LoS with the casters anyway, so no loss. Really I just concentrate on keeping the tank up. The DPS? Well they're expendable for the most part. ;-)
During the gauntlet part I'm just staying near the tank and de-cursing immediately unless doing it means losing the tank (I guess nothing really amazing here, it seems easier then the first area... :S), and it usually comes down to whether or not the DPS can kill things quickly enough.
I don't know if any of that is helpful or not? I know I still have problems there too. Oh well, a 5-man that's a bit of a challenge is nice. :D
My bad runs usually involve a tank having problems with gathering mobs during the LoS pulls, or running somewhere unexpected while I have my camera dancing around thanks to the wall (since we're on that subject too...). A good tank makes all the difference in there IMO. I can't say I've ever had a tank get 1-shoted on me, so I could only speculate on what happened there (had the +50% magic damage curse on him? *shrugs*).
If the group decides to do a LoS pull, I'm concentrating heavily on tank heals and throwing down WG at every CD to help the DPS out. I'll remove the poison from the DPS if/when I have a spare GCD (the time when having a cleanse b!%(# helps ;-D), then I'll throw some RJ around if the tank damage isn't too high. I usually end up hitting Tranquility frequently during the first 10 waves.
In my experience, wipes happen when the tank misses adds and I get pummeled repeatedly. Meaning I'm healing me and not him, and that's no good... If I lose anyone it's usually the DPS, which isn't really the end of the world, since the first 2 bosses seem to be 3-manned fairly easily. Usually it's the DPS who are pulling aggro, or not breaking LoS with the casters anyway, so no loss. Really I just concentrate on keeping the tank up. The DPS? Well they're expendable for the most part. ;-)
During the gauntlet part I'm just staying near the tank and de-cursing immediately unless doing it means losing the tank (I guess nothing really amazing here, it seems easier then the first area... :S), and it usually comes down to whether or not the DPS can kill things quickly enough.
I don't know if any of that is helpful or not? I know I still have problems there too. Oh well, a 5-man that's a bit of a challenge is nice. :D
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
I have a feeling the I've only healed this on normal (mainly because I succeeded), but I'll try and throw out some ideas of what might be going wrong.
1. Curing: There's the poison, which stacks and does damage and also the curse which increases magic damage taken by 50%. I'm assuming the latter will make the poison even worse and increase damage from the mage/priest and particularly the flamestrike (might be worth asking the tank and dps to move out of that asap). Also on the first boss make sure people know to move out of the soulwell things).
2. Mobs are cc-able at least on normal mode. If you have a hunter/priest it might be worth them using some cc on the larger pulls.
3. Stuns: not sure if one of the melee type mobs does a stun. If it does then this would reduce tank mitigation by quite a lot.
Might also want to see if the tank is using their cooldowns. I forget quite a bit unless I get scarily low on health, but when I tanked HoR on normal I tried to use my cooldowns whenever there were quite a few mobs, to try and help out with the healers mana.
Also, shout at your dps if they are slacking, the longer the fights take the more it will be a drain on your mana.
Tanking, I stand in the middle while the rest of the group hides behind the walls (in theory at least), just watch out for mobs which may have agroed on the healer instead of you (you should be able to tell by the way they run against the wall rather than more towards the middle).
1. Curing: There's the poison, which stacks and does damage and also the curse which increases magic damage taken by 50%. I'm assuming the latter will make the poison even worse and increase damage from the mage/priest and particularly the flamestrike (might be worth asking the tank and dps to move out of that asap). Also on the first boss make sure people know to move out of the soulwell things).
2. Mobs are cc-able at least on normal mode. If you have a hunter/priest it might be worth them using some cc on the larger pulls.
3. Stuns: not sure if one of the melee type mobs does a stun. If it does then this would reduce tank mitigation by quite a lot.
Might also want to see if the tank is using their cooldowns. I forget quite a bit unless I get scarily low on health, but when I tanked HoR on normal I tried to use my cooldowns whenever there were quite a few mobs, to try and help out with the healers mana.
Also, shout at your dps if they are slacking, the longer the fights take the more it will be a drain on your mana.
Tanking, I stand in the middle while the rest of the group hides behind the walls (in theory at least), just watch out for mobs which may have agroed on the healer instead of you (you should be able to tell by the way they run against the wall rather than more towards the middle).
As with my prot warrior, I try to taunt + "another ability" on the closest pair of mobs, using thunderclap/swipe to snatch the others as they run in.
I stick to the line of sight method, as I'm more comfortable with that strategy of "pulling" them to me in the alcove.
Death gripping, shackles, and trapping I don't mind if the person knows what they're doing. My only annoyance though is where I'm stuck being slowed in the rifleman's patch of ice and for whatever reason having to go get him out in the middle. Really cuts into my "reset" time for the next wave.
Saving bash (untalented cd of 1 min) for the 4th & 9th waves for stunning 1 of the 2 footman helps a bit I think to give dps/heals a chance to do their thing. Spectral Strike x2 hurts alot.
I stick to the line of sight method, as I'm more comfortable with that strategy of "pulling" them to me in the alcove.
Death gripping, shackles, and trapping I don't mind if the person knows what they're doing. My only annoyance though is where I'm stuck being slowed in the rifleman's patch of ice and for whatever reason having to go get him out in the middle. Really cuts into my "reset" time for the next wave.
Saving bash (untalented cd of 1 min) for the 4th & 9th waves for stunning 1 of the 2 footman helps a bit I think to give dps/heals a chance to do their thing. Spectral Strike x2 hurts alot.
Speaking of double Footman, didn't they nerf that lately? Or was it only the Mercenaries?
Edit: Successfully tanked H-HoR the other day on my Druid, but damn did we come close. Well, we actually died the first time due to a 5k GS Hunter doing 2k DPS and not Misdirection once, but he bailed after the wipe and we got a better DPS. Anyway, tanking. Yeah, we had a Discipline Priest healing and I actually had to switch out while tanking two mobs to cast Innervate on him. I mean, what the hell? I was taking massive damage, using my EoT trinket and that Frostborn thing from ToC10 along with Barkskin whenever possible (unless there was only one mob). I popped Frenzied Regen twice and used potions. I mean, I have never, ever, had to use a health potion in a 5-man heroic. Ever.
That place is seriously messed up.
45% dodge, 31k armor, 42k health with Fort and Kings.
(52% dodge and 38k armor with trinkets up)
Edited, Jan 26th 2010 7:58pm by Mazra
Edit: Successfully tanked H-HoR the other day on my Druid, but damn did we come close. Well, we actually died the first time due to a 5k GS Hunter doing 2k DPS and not Misdirection once, but he bailed after the wipe and we got a better DPS. Anyway, tanking. Yeah, we had a Discipline Priest healing and I actually had to switch out while tanking two mobs to cast Innervate on him. I mean, what the hell? I was taking massive damage, using my EoT trinket and that Frostborn thing from ToC10 along with Barkskin whenever possible (unless there was only one mob). I popped Frenzied Regen twice and used potions. I mean, I have never, ever, had to use a health potion in a 5-man heroic. Ever.
That place is seriously messed up.
45% dodge, 31k armor, 42k health with Fort and Kings.
(52% dodge and 38k armor with trinkets up)
Edited, Jan 26th 2010 7:58pm by Mazra
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Had to backtrack
And yea, I recall wiping to 3 mages (or rather 2 mages and 1 hallucination).
Another tip: Get the entire group to hide in the same corner. I know as dps it's annoying stacking on each other, but it helps directing mobs for the tank to pick up that much easier.
Blue post on Jan 5th wrote:
The ghost waves at the beginning of both normal and heroic Halls of Reflection have undergone several changes that should make them easier to defeat such as preventing 2 mages or 2 mercenaries from spawning in the 5 mob pulls, a shorter duration of the spectral footman’s shield bash, and the spectral mage’s flamestrike having a longer cast time, shorter duration, and (in heroic) doing less damage.
And yea, I recall wiping to 3 mages (or rather 2 mages and 1 hallucination).
Another tip: Get the entire group to hide in the same corner. I know as dps it's annoying stacking on each other, but it helps directing mobs for the tank to pick up that much easier.
I tank it in the corridor that leads to the central frostmourne room. Stick near walls initially to bring ranged mobs in then go out in the open if you need to. Get all dps and the healer to hang back at least 5 yards and wait til you have the mobs rounded up before acting. I mean, i'm a paladin and i find it fairly challenging, so i really feel for bears and warriors attempting the place.
The only thing that really helps me not lose a tank is full hots. 3 stack of rolling lifebloom, Wild Growth on cooldown.. just drink between the waves, you'll have the time to get a few ticks. It gives you the time you need to react to the tank going splat and swiftmend then nourish him a few times back to full.
Quote:
I tank it in the corridor that leads to the central frostmourne room. Stick near walls initially to bring ranged mobs in then go out in the open if you need to.
That's an awesome suggestion - gotta try it next time - rate up and a half!
I think next time I do it I'm going to stand in the middle of the room and make people CC. If no CC then I will run around like a crack head and keep aggro just so I can see everything better.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Mazra wrote:
Well, we actually died the first time due to a 5k GS Hunter doing 2k DPS and not Misdirection once, but he bailed after the wipe and we got a better DPS.
Edited, Feb 6th 2010 11:35am by Aethien
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Well, we actually died the first time due to a 5k GS Hunter doing 2k DPS and not Misdirection once, but he bailed after the wipe and we got a better DPS.
Edited, Feb 6th 2010 11:35am by Aethien
I did a random on my DK, he was under geared. He was raping meters with his 4t9 and quest greens with leather wrists and mail feet.
I pwned a hunter with a 5k gear score and the healer won 10g from the tank. They was guidies.
Skill pwns gear ever single time. A simpleton with one finger could use the best gear for a <insert class here> and still fail to a skilled player wearing NR greens.
A Maz, Aeth, Horse, Kal and 1 warm body dungeon would be a cake walk.
Hell, if I get me, my Disc boy and 2 good guild DPS and we /2 for people we usually do just ask for a warm body.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
You think you'd enjoy me running through the instance misdirecting and kiting stuff to you non stop?
Cause I got to do that in heroics once for a druid, it was fun.
He wanted to learn tanking a bit.......
Cause I got to do that in heroics once for a druid, it was fun.
He wanted to learn tanking a bit.......
Umm, ya. I have rage issues when all the mobs aren't in my face or I can't chain pull fast enough to make a mage cry.
This is me in DPS gear, if I wear tank gear I don't take enough damage to have enough rage to hole aggro.
Heck in DPS gear I still have issues on occasion. Rage is not a pleasant tank mechanic for heroics. I sit during boss fights in DPS gear, I did it early today in H HoS/L I forget which of the 2.
**** I have to sit and eat crits on trash sometimes if the DPS is good.
This is me in DPS gear, if I wear tank gear I don't take enough damage to have enough rage to hole aggro.
Heck in DPS gear I still have issues on occasion. Rage is not a pleasant tank mechanic for heroics. I sit during boss fights in DPS gear, I did it early today in H HoS/L I forget which of the 2.
**** I have to sit and eat crits on trash sometimes if the DPS is good.
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
I think that was the guy's point really. 
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I think that was the guy's point really.
I'm confused, what am I talking about?
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
Him having no rage and lots of mobs to deal with.
His way of learning how to tank.
Then again, he's in Last Resort.
His way of learning how to tank.
Then again, he's in Last Resort.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Then again, he's in Last Resort.
Who dat?
Hellbanned
idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
I've found that "hide in the corner" works a lot better with a pally or DK tank that can lay down an area (D&D or consecrate) for mobs to run through. Tanking as I warrior I always take them in the front hallway and it's not that bad to pick them up.
The other issue is that these mobs really benefit from focus fire - priests first (healing, AoE, and can incapacitate your healer), then rogues, then mages IMO.
Dangerous moves:
Priest - heal, aoe shadow dmg
Rogue - poison (stacks to 5), kidney shot (0 avoidance)
Mage - Flamestrike, DD spells when coupled with ....
Hunter - Something arrow - Curse to increase magic damage taken.
If you have a tank get kidney shotted while he's got a stack of poison on him, a curse up, and a mage/mirror image casting at him ... GG.
The other issue is that these mobs really benefit from focus fire - priests first (healing, AoE, and can incapacitate your healer), then rogues, then mages IMO.
Dangerous moves:
Priest - heal, aoe shadow dmg
Rogue - poison (stacks to 5), kidney shot (0 avoidance)
Mage - Flamestrike, DD spells when coupled with ....
Hunter - Something arrow - Curse to increase magic damage taken.
If you have a tank get kidney shotted while he's got a stack of poison on him, a curse up, and a mage/mirror image casting at him ... GG.
tabstopper wrote:
Hunter - Something arrow - Curse to increase magic damage taken.
Horsemouth wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Then again, he's in Last Resort.
Who dat?
I don't actually know him beyond a few PuGs we've been in together.
Horsemouth wrote:
A Maz, Aeth, Horse, Kal and 1 warm body dungeon would be a cake walk.
You think I can keep you alive with my level 53 priest? :P
But in principle, I agree.
Edit to add that you should totally move to the EU to play with us. :3
Edited, Feb 6th 2010 3:19pm by Kalivha
It's a pretty epic guild at the moment.
Just need to get rid of that Del-guy, he's horrible at playing a Shaman.
Oh shi- he reads this?
Just need to get rid of that Del-guy, he's horrible at playing a Shaman.
Oh shi- he reads this?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
Mazra wrote:
It's a pretty epic guild at the moment.
Just need to get rid of that Del-guy, he's horrible at playing a Shaman.
Oh shi- he reads this?
Just need to get rid of that Del-guy, he's horrible at playing a Shaman.
Oh shi- he reads this?
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