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#17602 Aug 20 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to write my congressmen to enact a Nap Act.
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#17603 Aug 20 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Good
I approve.
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#17604 Aug 20 2012 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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I could vote for that.
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#17605 Aug 21 2012 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'll still need a bribe of some sorts.
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#17606 Aug 21 2012 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
How about we bribe you with a nap?
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Willowmei, 85 Druid
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Shrika, 72 Warlock
Jaquelle, 54 Paladin
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#17607 Aug 21 2012 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Naps are useless without an offer to babysit; but $10 could probably buy another Blue's Clues video, which is just as good. Smiley: wink
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#17608 Aug 21 2012 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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It may take a while to get, but here's 3.24GB of Blues Clues. Consider yourself bribed.
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#17609 Aug 21 2012 at 4:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I'm not quite sure I follow where you're going with the "stat cap philosophy". Could you elaborate on what exactly it is that GW2 is doing that you like?

At character level cap, the "best" equipment is statistically capped at the same point for everyone. So when I get my Legendary sword, it will have the same itemization (or total distributed stats) as Exotic ("best" gear type available). This means that I will not be locked out of content due to item level (to use the WoW reference) nor will I have to pointlessly grind for gear drops. I won't have to suffer several weeks in rBGs for honor, nor pug 30 instances to get to iLevel whatever before I can even queue for an instance.

Obtaining the statistically optimal gear isn't difficult, obtaining the rarest aesthetic gear is. These allows players who want to put in the time to get the rarest gear to be able to without forcing all other players to be sub-optimal (numbers wise).

For me, I'm just f'ing sick of pugging for weeks after taking a break for a tier just so the system will allow me into a raid or difficult content. Having to get onto a treadmill every tier which requires that I log in everyday to farm badgers in order to remain statistically competitive doesn't make me a happy cupcake. I do love hunting for rares (just got my AQ-archeology mount last night after farming since the launch), but I hate being disallowed from entering a raid because I have a weak ring or something.

Many people seem to prefer the idea of constantly getting gear that makes their character "more powerful" but fail to realize that that's not what is happening. As gear levels rise, so do end-boss HP and damage levels. We haven't gotten more relatively more powerful than anything since the expansion hit, only the numbers are larger. But I totally understand why people find entertainment from the illusion of greater power. It's fun to see big numbers pop up all over the place =)

Anyway, room enough for both games on the shelf I think! Cheers!
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#17610 Aug 21 2012 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
Very well said Therion. It'll be interesting to see how ArenaNet plays end game content, but I'm relieved there will be no gear grinding. I'm really tired of it myself. There is no point to it for the player. It's just a waste of time. Games should be based on skill, not how much time you waste grinding dungeons and/or raids, over and over again.
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#17611 Aug 22 2012 at 12:01 AM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Obtaining the statistically optimal gear isn't difficult, obtaining the rarest aesthetic gear is. These allows players who want to put in the time to get the rarest gear to be able to without forcing all other players to be sub-optimal (numbers wise).

For me, I'm just f'ing sick of pugging for weeks after taking a break for a tier just so the system will allow me into a raid or difficult content. Having to get onto a treadmill every tier which requires that I log in everyday to farm badgers in order to remain statistically competitive doesn't make me a happy cupcake. I do love hunting for rares (just got my AQ-archeology mount last night after farming since the launch), but I hate being disallowed from entering a raid because I have a weak ring or something.
I get the problem and it is one of the things in WoW that annoyed me because gearing up alts sucked bigtime, however this is completely the wrong way of fixing/avoiding that for me. I don't care that much about aesthetics of my gear, I care about progressing with my character and improving my character. If there is no improving to be done, why should I bother trying to get that super rare gear? Even aside from the question of whether or not I find it good looking at all.

And a cynical tidbit at the end: People expect legendaries to be legendary and thus, better than the tier of gear below that. I'm half expecting devs to give in to that and buff legendary stats which gets you into the gear race anyway.

Quote:
Many people seem to prefer the idea of constantly getting gear that makes their character "more powerful" but fail to realize that that's not what is happening. As gear levels rise, so do end-boss HP and damage levels. We haven't gotten more relatively more powerful than anything since the expansion hit, only the numbers are larger. But I totally understand why people find entertainment from the illusion of greater power. It's fun to see big numbers pop up all over the place =)

Anyway, room enough for both games on the shelf I think! Cheers!
Other way 'round, bosses get stronger the further into a game/xpack you get so I want better gear to be able to beat them so I can get to the next boss who will require even better gear etc etc.
If that difficulty line is flat you lose the feeling of progression and accomplishment which is what MMO's are built around. If there's no progression to follow, what is going to be the carrot on the stick that gets you to keep playing for another month, year, 5 years?
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#17612 Aug 22 2012 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
requires that I log in everyday to farm badgers

I have nothing to add except that I kind of wish I could farm badgers.

Honey badgers.
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#17613 Aug 22 2012 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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I WANNA BADGERS!

19 posts since Saturday... I am disappoint, gusy. Usually you guys spit out two pages in the time it takes me to write a reply. What gives?
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#17614 Aug 22 2012 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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And mushrooms.

Just not snakes.
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#17615 Aug 22 2012 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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#17616 Aug 22 2012 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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I like to think my Jay Sherman avatar is dancing enthusiastically along to the song.
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#17617 Aug 22 2012 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
I do agree with you on the bit about legendaries. If legendaries aren't going to be legendary, we shouldn't have them at all. I don't see the point.

Now. Something that Therion and mine's guild from WoW states in their charter (or whatever you want to call it) is that gear is a means to an end. We raid because we enjoy figuring out the puzzle of how to down each boss. Sure, we all like getting gear, but it's not the focus of our raid groups in Sparkle Magic. Or at least, it's not supposed to be. I don't mind gear that makes you more awesome, it's just the incessant grinding to be able to raid that irritates me. I'd much rather play a game that focuses on making raid bosses challenging without pumping up a boss's HP pool or giving him an enrage timer, or whatever. Blizzard has been pretty good about keeping raids interesting, but there's too many other parts of the game that I just don't find fun anymore. The only way I could really raid right now anyways, is with LFR and **** that ****. LFR is a cesspool, and it's not challenging in the least.
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#17618 Aug 22 2012 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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Other way 'round, bosses get stronger the further into a game/xpack you get so I want better gear to be able to beat them so I can get to the next boss who will require even better gear etc etc.
If that difficulty line is flat you lose the feeling of progression and accomplishment which is what MMO's are built around. If there's no progression to follow, what is going to be the carrot on the stick that gets you to keep playing for another month, year, 5 years?

I was talking from a design standpoint. Tier X gives bosses Y amount of median health (or average rDPS / time before enrage or other wipe mechanic), so the gear for the tier must match the rDPS expectations to complete, if that makes sense. From the player point of view your numbers are getting closer and exceeding the expected DPS you need to kill before enrage. etc.

Quote:
I care about progressing with my character and improving my character. If there is no improving to be done,

The focus in GW2 is on skill rather than gear. The learning curve for some of the content requires a f*ck ton of skill, both twitch/reaction and planning/strategy. The designers certainly feel that progression from advancing skill (and variety of play) will be enough to entertain their audience. We shall see!

Quote:
Now. Something that Therion and mine's guild from WoW states in their charter (or whatever you want to call it) is that gear is a means to an end.

Oh, if only that were true. The shift to gear-whoring was one of the reasons I left SM aside from an alt. It happens to most players in gear-treadmill games. Not judging, it's just not the mentality of which I want to engage in during my limited entertainment hours =)

Something else worth mentioning (and I'm NOT trying to sell anyone on GW2, more of an interesting trend in modern mmo design philosophy) is downscaling. You effectively cannot vastly over level any of the zones. A bit, but nothing like most mmos. You get the thrill of actual challenge in the combat etc, but also scaled rewards to your character level. This effectively gives you the entire game world to viably explore. No more rofl-stomping The Barrens and get nothing but rep. =) I honestly foresee a game, someday, that will not have character levels as we know them now (the DnD model).

Finally: badgers are best with ranch, just like babies.

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#17619 Aug 22 2012 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
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It fits this song better:

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#17620 Aug 22 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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In other news...
Click me
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#17621 Aug 22 2012 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Quote:
I care about progressing with my character and improving my character. If there is no improving to be done,

The focus in GW2 is on skill rather than gear. The learning curve for some of the content requires a f*ck ton of skill, both twitch/reaction and planning/strategy. The designers certainly feel that progression from advancing skill (and variety of play) will be enough to entertain their audience. We shall see!
Major design flaw #1: 80% of players are not very skilled and never will be. Ever. All those players will effectively be locked out of content if the content is challenging to the more skilled players. Either that or the more skilled players are going to be bored.
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#17622 Aug 22 2012 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Quote:
I care about progressing with my character and improving my character. If there is no improving to be done,

The focus in GW2 is on skill rather than gear. The learning curve for some of the content requires a f*ck ton of skill, both twitch/reaction and planning/strategy. The designers certainly feel that progression from advancing skill (and variety of play) will be enough to entertain their audience. We shall see!
Major design flaw #1: 80% of players are not very skilled and never will be. Ever. All those players will effectively be locked out of content if the content is challenging to the more skilled players. Either that or the more skilled players are going to be bored.


In addition many people have played MMOs to the point they're really not going to get any better, skill-capped at where ever they are. I know I fall into this category, no amount of coaching, teaching, planning, practice, reading, etc. is going to make me any better than I am. I have a pretty good idea of what I can accomplish, and if a game is beyond that, well it's just stuff I'll never see.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2012 3:43pm by someproteinguy
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#17623 Aug 22 2012 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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Major design flaw #1: 80% of players are not very skilled and never will be. Ever.

Excellent point but, hey, a boy can dream right?

I am hoping that Arena Net sticks to the difficulty and not go nerf-bat crazy when the whining really gets going. There was some in beta, but nothing like it will be on wide release. I can only imagine how delicious the tears will be when some of the wow kids hit the gw2 dungeons... oh, the tears will flow like wine! DELICIOUS!!! mwahahaha!

Edit: And for the record I don't consider myself an ultra-elite player of anything. Slightly above average at best. Accordingly, I expect to be somewhat successful in difficult games but no more.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2012 3:50pm by TherionSaysWhat
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#17624 Aug 22 2012 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
I am hoping that Arena Net sticks to the difficulty and not go nerf-bat crazy when the whining really gets going.
They'll cave, within months. Simply because they'll be forced to choose from lots of people getting stuck right at the start of their game and making content for a few people and/or people leaving or they can nerf things so it's accessible to more players but in the process bore the **** out of people who could do the pre nerf ones and chasing them away.

Hence, design flaw. You cannot base progress in an MMO on skill simply because there is both too big a gap in skill between players and skill is hard to get and not as obvious as a new bunch of pixels so you're taking away the carrot and hoping the horse will run because he wants to be stronger and faster.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#17625 Aug 22 2012 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
I dunno, I feel like skill in video games is relative to education... in the sense that if people WANT to get better, they will and they can. There probably is some sort of cap to this of course, but I think if a game has higher standards of skill, and doesn't cave in to lower it, people will generally try to be better to meet that level. The same is true in education. Part of the problem that we have now is that the standards keep getting lowered, and when you do that students will only rise high enough to meet your standards and then fall short. If you keep your standards higher, students (and gamers i think) will reach farther to try and reach those standards. They may not reach the standards that you have for them, but they'll do a lot better than if you had kept your standards lower.

I dunno if that makes sense to anyone else, but it makes sense to me.
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Shrika, 72 Warlock
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#17626 Aug 22 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Also remember that there is no need to keep players logging in due to no sub fee. The players that level cap and cant compete in the small amount of really difficult content are not a financial loss to Arena Net aside from lower cash shop (aesthitics) purchases. The casual players that are not competative for that hard content are not the financial target for the shop which is their main profit center.

Edit: +1 PT. I think you said It perfectly =)

Edited, Aug 22nd 2012 6:39pm by TherionSaysWhat
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#17627 Aug 22 2012 at 8:47 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, it's only been like 240 posts since I last stopped by. You all need to post moar.

So what's going on with everyone?
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#17628 Aug 22 2012 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh! This'll sound weird, but I got knocked out for getting my wisdom teeth removed, and I had a dream about some of the people from this thread. Digg was probably the main person I remember, for some reason. He looked a little like a 1950's mobster, and for some reason he was disappointed in me.
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#17629 Aug 22 2012 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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That's ridiculously awesome. But I was disappointed because I didn't get to be a 1920s mobster.
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#17630 Aug 22 2012 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Hey, it's only been like 240 posts since I last stopped by. You all need to post moar.

So what's going on with everyone?

I was consistently drunk for six days (last Wednesday to this Tuesday). Well, I sobered up enough to drive a couple times, but everyone I was with was drunk and I was still buzzed.

It was pretty awesome. My best friend is trying to get me to date his cousin, so we met this weekend and she's basically the most awesome chick I've met. We were finishing eachother's sentences by the end of the night.

Epic weekend all around.
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#17631 Aug 23 2012 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I dunno, I feel like skill in video games is relative to education... in the sense that if people WANT to get better, they will and they can. There probably is some sort of cap to this of course, but I think if a game has higher standards of skill, and doesn't cave in to lower it, people will generally try to be better to meet that level. The same is true in education. Part of the problem that we have now is that the standards keep getting lowered, and when you do that students will only rise high enough to meet your standards and then fall short. If you keep your standards higher, students (and gamers i think) will reach farther to try and reach those standards. They may not reach the standards that you have for them, but they'll do a lot better than if you had kept your standards lower.

I dunno if that makes sense to anyone else, but it makes sense to me.
For education, I agree with you. For MMO's, not so much since if the game has high standards and too many people can't meet them, they're not going to keep trying, they'll just move on to the next game that does give them the sense of accomplishment they're looking for instead of getting frustrated.

TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Also remember that there is no need to keep players logging in due to no sub fee. The players that level cap and cant compete in the small amount of really difficult content are not a financial loss to Arena Net aside from lower cash shop (aesthitics) purchases. The casual players that are not competative for that hard content are not the financial target for the shop which is their main profit center.

Edit: +1 PT. I think you said It perfectly =)
There's no reason for Blizzard to nerf D3 because there's no need for anyone to play Inferno so if some people never make it through, that'd be fine. They don't need to keep people playing either yet they still nerfed content (twice now) to cater to the people who couldn't make it. And you're just plain wrong on the last part, the casual players are the prime target for the store. Look at games like Champion's Online, the one Maz was talking about earlier and the other fifty superhero MMO's, they're all lacking endgame and they all cater to the casuals who just enjoy making their characters look cool, they also all have shops to buy more looks from.
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#17632 Aug 23 2012 at 1:47 AM Rating: Good
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this is whats up

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#17633 Aug 23 2012 at 4:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Also remember that there is no need to keep players logging in due to no sub fee. The players that level cap and cant compete in the small amount of really difficult content are not a financial loss to Arena Net aside from lower cash shop (aesthitics) purchases. The casual players that are not competative for that hard content are not the financial target for the shop which is their main profit center.

Edit: +1 PT. I think you said It perfectly =)

Edited, Aug 22nd 2012 6:39pm by TherionSaysWhat


They do want those players buying items in the cash shop, though, and buying expansions, and bringing in word-of-mouth referrals. I think putting people on equal-footing with respect to gear is a good idea for PvP. For PvE, I think capping gear means you're capping character progression, and at a certain point people will reach that carrot, find a look for their character that they like, and say, "What next?"
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#17634 Aug 23 2012 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
So what's going on with everyone?
PONYS.
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#17635 Aug 23 2012 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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Sounds about right, yeah.
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#17636 Aug 23 2012 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
So what's going on with everyone?


I has a new chair at work. It's cushy and with a high back, life is good. Smiley: grin


Edited, Aug 23rd 2012 7:50am by someproteinguy
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#17637 Aug 23 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Whoops.
The casual players that are not competative for that hard content are the financial target for the shop which is their main profit center.

I mistyped erhmegerd!

Diablo 3 will rely on their auction house income which I imagine requires as many players farming inferno as possible, no?

Other than that, made baby back ribs last night and discussed where to put our carboys for beer making'. No still this year but making beer and the garden are great (mainly due to my awesome lady). What's up with everyone else?
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#17638 Aug 23 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
Diablo 3 will rely on their auction house income which I imagine requires as many players farming inferno as possible, no?
Not really. Everyone could already farm act 1 inferno for gear so nerfing inferno only reduces the demand for items so there's less incentive to pay $200 for that omgwtfbbq pink thong of doom.
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#17639 Aug 23 2012 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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WHOA whoa whoa there big fella. Hold your horses and tell me right this f'ing second where I can get the omgwtfbbq pink thong of doom. I needs it!

I got the feeling that the inferno nerf was to draw back people who weren't logging in anymore to farm, and therefore stimulate the real money AH. But I'm often wrong and this could be one of those times. Honestly, I never got to that difficulty due to wanting to smash my bored as **** face into a wall while trying to suffer the "storyline" the third time. Face smashing makes playing hard so I'm leet, right? =P

Edited, Aug 23rd 2012 10:22am by TherionSaysWhat
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#17640 Aug 23 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
I barely got to Act 2 the first play through... I don't know if it's just that D3 isn't that good, or if hack/slash games with ****** story lines aren't for me. *shrugs*
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#17641 Aug 23 2012 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
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TherionSaysWhat wrote:
I got the feeling that the inferno nerf was to draw back people who weren't logging in anymore to farm, and therefore stimulate the real money AH. But I'm often wrong and this could be one of those times. Honestly, I never got to that difficulty due to wanting to smash my bored as **** face into a wall while trying to suffer the "storyline" the third time. Face smashing makes playing hard so I'm leet, right? =P
The people who quit quit because it wsn't challenging enough, for the most part. At least from what I've gathered. So I highly doubt those will be back.


And yeah, I don't know what it is about Diablo but it keeps me entertained. Worked for D2 too. That said, if you care about storyline, Diablo is not a good game for you, it only barely has more story than Mario Kart. Smiley: lol
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#17642 Aug 23 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
That was my problem with D3. I played through the story the easiest level then made it about half way through the story on the next level and just lost any interest to even log in. I had more interesting games like L.A. Noire and Max Payne to keep me interested rather than playing through the same thing over and over again.

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#17643 Aug 24 2012 at 12:24 AM Rating: Good
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But what did you expect from Diablo? It's not exactly known for it's stellar storytelling. I expected nothing more from the game that to give me various entertaining ways to hack and slash my way through millions of zombies/demons/teddybears and that's exactly what I've gotten.

And so far, I've played through the entire story.. euh... about 15 times or so.

Edited, Aug 24th 2012 8:28am by Aethien
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#17644 Aug 24 2012 at 4:34 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't find the combat interesting enough to justify the boring parts.
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#17645 Aug 24 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Diablo has been the Gold Standard™ for gear grinds for decades.
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#17646 Aug 24 2012 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Whatever the magic ingredient in D2 was, I didn't taste it in D3. Disappointing but c'est la vie.

Anyone tried the new TF2 spin off?

Oh, and in other news, if you can get Green Flash's Reyon Vert, omg get it. Great beer =)
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Therion the Light of Dawn - Phezz the Insane - Snaffu @ Proudmoore US[/h5]
#17647 Aug 24 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Already had it, pretty good yeah. I like their West Coast IPA too. Smiley: smile
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#17648 Aug 24 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
I love how I change the name of the Facebook group, and suddenly everyone starts posting again lol. That group has been dead for months.
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#17649 Aug 24 2012 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, you get a notification.
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#17650 Aug 24 2012 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
I know, I just thought it was funny.
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#17651 Aug 25 2012 at 4:07 AM Rating: Good
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Moving in two days!
Girlfriend left earlier today already, but I'm still stuck here for two days. Two days of beer, and Final Fantasy VIII.
Yeah, I started that game again, after years of it dusting on the shelf. I'm on disc 2 currently, and so far the hardest part has been climbing down a ladder. Then I remembered it's better to use the arrows instead of the ''joystick''-thingies.
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