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#15352 May 10 2012 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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Hey now, there's nothing wrong with coffee, as long as it's coffee flavored coffee.
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#15353 May 10 2012 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
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There are so many hipsters that they aren't even hipsters anymore.
#15354 May 10 2012 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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There's nothing wrong with coffee. There is plenty wrong with people drinking coffee ironically, whatever the hell that is.
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#15355 May 10 2012 at 6:46 AM Rating: Good
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Like this?
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#15356 May 10 2012 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Talking about coffee, I've actually managed to cut down on my coffee usage.
I'm down to two cups a day now.
Very huge cups.
#15357 May 10 2012 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
I haven't made it out to Chicago yet, but it's definitely on my list.
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#15358 May 10 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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smunks wrote:
Talking about coffee, I've actually managed to cut down on my coffee usage.
I'm down to two cups a day now.
Very huge cups.


I was going to post a witty picture and make a joke about a "half cup," but then I looked up half cups on Google and got distracted.
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#15359 May 10 2012 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
joke about a "half cup

Shoot!

Quote:
but then I looked up half cups on Google and got distracted.

Astronaut with the best moustache ever.
#15360 May 10 2012 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure you and I are looking at the same image results, mate.

I don't see any astronauts on the first two pages. Just a lot of... cups.
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#15361 May 10 2012 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Tried it again, no astronauts this time. Maybe I just mistyped it /shrug. He had an awesome moustache though
#15362 May 10 2012 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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I hear Dapper Astronaut is the new look.
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#15363 May 10 2012 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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Pigtails - have you tried going onto SSRIs/NARIs? For some people, they're less nasty than stimulants.

Also, I'm back in the UK. For 12 days.
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#15364 May 10 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'll give Chicago as a Top 10 City, but Seattle? That's like the birthplace of the coffee suckin' hipster. Let it sink into the ocean for all I care for inventing that plague.


Right? Just go to the Village and it'll be like you're there. Smiley: lol
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#15365 May 10 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'll give Chicago as a Top 10 City, but Seattle? That's like the birthplace of the coffee suckin' hipster. Let it sink into the ocean for all I care for inventing that plague.


Plus Microsoft is there. Because I really want to pay to upgrade to another version of excel. Smiley: mad

Summer sunsets in Seattle are beautiful. Really a lot about that city is. All that water, lakes, the sound, mountains all around you, etc. It really is great. Then you realize all those hills and waterways that make it so beautiful also snarl a commute like it's nobodies business. Don't think I want to live there again, but awesome place to visit.

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#15366 May 10 2012 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Instructions with the DIY ringflash for Xsarus.

Pretty self explanatory stuff but interesting nonetheless.
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#15367 May 10 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
I'll probably make one of those, my macro is usually a foot away at most, so this should be ideal.
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#15368 May 10 2012 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
I have to just pop in and do my +1 ever couple hundred replies or so... It's only right.
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#15369 May 10 2012 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, Seattle is actually on my list for next year. I figure most places are okay if it's just for 3-4 months, I might as well go for ones with a good IT industry and sane weather.

Speaking of, when I left Germany in the morning it was 17°C, it was 6 when I landed in Scotland. That's winter, alright.
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#15370 May 10 2012 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I have to just pop in and do my +1 ever couple hundred replies or so... It's only right.


Spammer.
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#15371 May 10 2012 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Kalivha wrote:
Pigtails - have you tried going onto SSRIs/NARIs? For some people, they're less nasty than stimulants.

Also, I'm back in the UK. For 12 days.


I don't know what a NARI is, but I haven't been on an SSRI since my first bout of depression. They worked for me for 6 months, and then stopped. I've been on Welbutrin for a year and a half now, and it's actually recommended as a supplement for ADHD. I'd just like to try getting away from medication in general. If the supplements don't work, they don't work. But I feel like my science research has been pretty good, and all three supplements break the blood-brain barrier, so they SHOULD do something. I was looking into a GABA supplement as well, since it seems like it helps a lot of people with depression too, but the Wikipedia article mentioned that that particular supplement does not pass the BBB, so it's hard to say if it actually gives people any benefit.
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#15372 May 10 2012 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure about the other ones (no experience with them), but if you take 5-HTP most of it should just end up as tryptophane instead of 5-HT/serotonin; you might as well eat the right kinda proteins.

NARI might actually be a European term - maybe you call them NERI or something? Norephinephrine reuptake inhibitors. Strattera (atomoxetine) was one and there were ads on TV in the US for it when I lived there, but I'm not sure if that is used at all anymore. Supplements are supplements for a reason, they might have minimal effects but if you need medication, maybe you shouldn't ignore that. Wait. You pay for it, right? Maybe you should. I can't even imagine living in a world where that would be a concern. Smiley: frown
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#15373 May 10 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Yup, can't afford Strattera. It's still used, but since it's a fairly new drug it's still really expensive. The thing is, I do eat a lot of meat proteins, and I drink a glass of milk a day, plus eat a fair amount of cheese. The problem is, people with ADHD (and depression) don't produce enough serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine. So if we don't produce enough, it makes some sort of logical sense to try to increase how much we make. You can't take supplements for those particular brain chemicals themselves, because they can't cross the blood brain barrier. So the next best thing is taking the amino-acids that make those chemicals, that CAN cross the BBB. That and making sure you're getting enough of the other vitamins and minerals that are needed in the process of the amino acids making those chemicals, which is something I've been researching as well.

For example, the best way to make sure that Tyrosine makes L-DOPA (and in turn, dopamine and then norepinephrine) is to get enough iron, Vitamin C, magnesium and zinc. I haven't found info on what helps 5-HTP make serotonin yet, but I won't be getting the supplements for at least a week, so I have time.
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#15374 May 10 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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So much talk about eating protein. Not sure if excited or just scared...

Smiley: eek
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#15375 May 10 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
You never did answer my question, y'know. Smiley: tongue
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#15376 May 10 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh right... Smiley: blush

Fricken new page thing... Smiley: lol
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#15377 May 10 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Hey protein, I have a sciencey question for you, since you're like a biologist or something. I've been doing research on alternative treatments for my ADHD. The main cause of ADHD is not having enough of dopamine, norepinephrine, and/or serotonin. Stimulants claim to increase the levels of dopamine and norepinephrine, but I've got a few aggravating side effects from the one I'm on, and they're expensive to boot. Some supplements that are supposed to help are 5-HTP, L-Glutamine and L-Tyrosine, so I'm going to try taking those this month (after I get them in the mail) instead of the Ritalin and see how it compares. I'm also considering trying L-DOPA at a later date, but I'm hesitant to try it right away since possible side effects of that particular chemical seem pretty nasty. I was just wondering if you had any opinion on whether taking those supplements might be effective in combating a deficiency in dopamine and norepinephrine.


That I don't know. I've never studied them directly, and even then it's more of an 'ask your doctor' thingy. You probably know more about that subject than I do. Smiley: wink

But if you're ever looking for a biomarker for cyanogenic exposure caused by eating too much cassava I may be able to help you. Smiley: grin



Edited, May 10th 2012 1:47pm by someproteinguy
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#15378 May 10 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
So much talk about eating protein. Not sure if excited or just scared...

Smiley: eek
Thoroughly aroused?
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#15379 May 10 2012 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
Okay, fair enough. If you're curious about educating yourself though, check this out. I understand most of it, although I've only read the first three on the next page, so far. I didn't figure that you would need 8 separate articles explaining how/why/why not Tyrosine could be used to treat ADHD.
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#15380 May 10 2012 at 2:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
So much talk about eating protein. Not sure if excited or just scared...

Smiley: eek
Thoroughly aroused?


No, I don't want to get my hopes up.
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#15381 May 10 2012 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pigtails, what I'm saying is that you don't have a way to make yourself produce significant enough quantities to make a difference, especially at reasonable cost. When I lived in the US, I was majorly into this sort of stuff. Smiley: grin

Also, I'm way too excited that I scored, and well. I wish this could continue... way too sad it can't at the moment.

I have an exam in the morning. I shall go to sleep in a little bit.
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#15382 May 10 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
Well, I'm going to give it a shot for a month and see what happens. There were a few people on the products who commented that they had ADHD and that the supplements helped them.
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#15383 May 10 2012 at 3:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Okay, fair enough. If you're curious about educating yourself though, check this out. I understand most of it, although I've only read the first three on the next page, so far. I didn't figure that you would need 8 separate articles explaining how/why/why not Tyrosine could be used to treat ADHD.


On the contrary, I usually prefer to read the original studies, rather than a synopsis. It nice to have a look at the scientists thinking at the time, and in what kind of context they think their work is relevant.

Anyway this line from the 1991 by Sandra Woods and Jerrold Meyer,

Quote:
For example, it would be important
to extend the results of this study and previous
observations, i.e. the potentiation of the discriminative
stimulus properties of systemic MPD by TYR, to include
the administation of oral TYR.


Did they ever follow up on that to your knowledge? Or should I dive back into pubmed? Smiley: lol

Edited, May 10th 2012 2:49pm by someproteinguy
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#15384 May 10 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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I made spinach soup, it tastes jummy.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures then a Japanese tourist.
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One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
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#15385 May 10 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Do you eat it with eggs?
If not, ur doin' it wrong!
#15386 May 10 2012 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Did they ever follow up on that to your knowledge? Or should I dive back into pubmed? Smiley: lol


Go go google scholar...

Bleh nothing I could find, or anything recent anyway. Smiley: frown

Only this synopsis in a 2011 review that seems to cite a 1985 study (my bold):

Quote:
L-tyrosine, an essential precursor for dopamine
and norepinephrine, has been shown to be beneficial
for attention in adults with ADHD.81 Around
5-10 percent of ADHD cases respond to L-tyrosine
supplementation and are most likely those individuals
who have impairments in neurotransmitter
metabolism.
82 In one case study evaluating the
effect of tyrosine supplements on a patient with
ADHD and co-morbid phenylketonuria, tyrosine
was found to reduce ADHD symptoms, possibly
through the action of augmenting dopaminergic
activity.83


But I'm totally just shooting in the dark here...




Edited, May 10th 2012 3:05pm by someproteinguy
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#15387 May 10 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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No eggs, I just made it because I still had spinach that I had to use for something.
I did put some bacon on top though and I may add some mozzarella or hüttenkäse next time.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures then a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
Horsemouth wrote:
At work I'm in charge of UID/PWD combos. When people forget their initial password, I punish them with their new PWD.
The new PWD is often something like : idbecoolerifiwasaethien
#15388 May 10 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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From a study of 16 individuals in 1987...

Quote:
Our first finding was that L-tyrosine was therapeutically
effective after 2 or more weeks. This delay is
similar to that found by Gelenberg et al. (9) in the
tyrosine treatment of depression and to that encountered
with the use of tricyclic antidepressants and
monoamine oxidase inhibitors in the treatment of
depression. The delay seen with antidepressants parallels
changes in receptor function and suggests that
analogous changes may have to occur before L-tyrosine
becomes therapeutically effective. In our previous
trials of d,l-phenylalanine (8), the pharmacological
response was immediate, so we did not predict the
delay in L-tyrosine response; therefore, a placebo response
is not likely, even in an open trial.
The second finding was that all the patients who
responded to L-tyrosine became tolerant to its therapeutic
effects. The clinical reports on the effects of
L-tyrosine in depression (9, 10) do not discuss the
length of time that the treatment remained effective or
whether tolerance developed.
In conclusion, the three precursor studies-L-dopa
(5), d,l-phenylalanine (8), and L-tyrosine-have not
elucidated the putative functional defect in attention
deficit disorder, residual type. Furthermore, none of
these substances appears to have any clinical utility in
the treatment of the disorder.


I'm learning... and +1ing... but learning too. Smiley: grin

Edited, May 10th 2012 3:15pm by someproteinguy
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#15389 May 10 2012 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Okay so...

TL:DR = they did a few studies back in the 80's and 90's that were mostly inconclusive or at least not very encouraging. So they determined these weren't the silver bullets to cure ADHD and people kind of stopped looking at it. However there seems to have varying, and sometimes promising, results in people from time to time for reasons that haven't been really explored very well.

Did I get that right? Smiley: confused

Edited, May 10th 2012 3:33pm by someproteinguy
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#15390 May 10 2012 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, that sounds about right. It's not like I'm thinking it's for sure going to work. Plus Tyrosine is only one piece of the puzzle. I just want to give it a shot, since it's far cheaper than my drugs, and I'm a lot less likely to have extreme nausea on these supplements.
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#15391 May 10 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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OMNOMNOM Chocolate -probably NSFW-
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someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures then a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
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At work I'm in charge of UID/PWD combos. When people forget their initial password, I punish them with their new PWD.
The new PWD is often something like : idbecoolerifiwasaethien
#15392 May 10 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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I really, really hope those aren't supposed to be used.
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#15393 May 10 2012 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
That'd be a good way to give yourself an infection. Smiley: lol
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#15394 May 10 2012 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty sure they're strictly meant for oral pleasure.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures then a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
Horsemouth wrote:
At work I'm in charge of UID/PWD combos. When people forget their initial password, I punish them with their new PWD.
The new PWD is often something like : idbecoolerifiwasaethien
#15395 May 10 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
I notice in that paper they also said :-

Quote:
Disadvantages to tyrosine supplementation for ADHD:

Beneficial responses of tyrosine for ADHD treatment are often short lived (and usually disappear within 2 to 4 weeks, as the body appears to "adapt" or tolerate the higher levels of tyrosine supplementation.



Not sure about over there but here in Australia Ritalin & Dexamphetamine are pretty much the only 2 treatments used for ADHD. Here they are fairly cheap (we pay $7 for 100 tabs from our wholsaler and charge about $20). The Strattera is a lot more expensive ($100+ a box).

The SSRI's are as a rule not used for ADHD as several studies have shown little/no benefit.

RareBeast

(your friendly neighbourhood pharmacist)
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#15396 May 10 2012 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/4045/57213
mmmm
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#15397 May 10 2012 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
Does that depend on dosage though? The first dosage I had of generic Ritalin (5mg 2x a day) was pretty cheap. I like it was something like $4 for a two week supply? The dosage we finally settled on is pretty high, 40mg 2x a day, but that's the first dosage where I noticed a difference. And I think he was wrong about Ritalin not having an issue with tolerance, because I've noticed that if I take it regularly for like a week or so, I start to lose the benefits. If I take a day or two off, then I can get the benefits again. A month supply of the meds cost me about $45, and my bupropion costs me about $15 a month.

One thing to keep in mind though is that their study was very small. Only 6 people IIRC. I fully recognize that it goes both ways though. With only six people in the study, it's just as likely that I won't get any benefit at all, will only have a limited time benefit, or have it actually work for me.
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#15399 May 10 2012 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Makes what so much easier? Smiley: dubious
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#15400 May 10 2012 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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Getting your credit card info?
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#15401 May 10 2012 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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Seems legit.
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