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#102 Apr 23 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Ran Naxx 25 (first raid on my Druid) last night and got a few nice drops:

T7.5 Shoulders

Rip Idol

and my favourite (stupid Loot Master was killing me waiting and waiting and waiting to give me it)......

The Undeath Carrier

Very productive run and I am a happy druid again :)


Edit: Oh dear I just put this thread onto its third page

Edited, Apr 23rd 2009 4:48am by KevMc
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#103 Apr 23 2009 at 3:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edit: Oh dear I just put this thread onto its third page


Other classes have an achievement thread. We have a talk story thread. It is ok.

On a side note, just hit 350 JC.

Easy mode from here I think. As I may actually have recipes people want.
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#104 Apr 23 2009 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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I started the new sticky.

Slow day at work.

Will do more tomorrow at work I think, possibly today as well.
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#105 Apr 23 2009 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Well have made some head way into the sticky.

The thing is big all ready and not even half way done.

Hopefully can crack out some more at work tomorrow and possible more on Saturday.
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#106 Apr 25 2009 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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395 JC LFW

WOOT

So happy.

Should be easier to level now as I can shill for work.

Have the def + SBV meta pattern need to get the rest. Then can really take off.

Gonna check see if get dailies. Then go bed.
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idiggory wrote:
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#107 Apr 27 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cat section is mostly done. Need haste and ArP info still. As I want the full effect of haste, I mean I know it isn't great but just some info would be nice. As for ArP I need to find the values of when to stack it based on which Idol you are using and whatnot.

Other wise cat section is mostly complete. Will start on the bear part next. That should go pretty fast.

Just leaving the Boomkin, Resto and PvP sections. Plus a smallish conclusion and assorted crap section plus a thank you to section.

Hoping to be done soonish. This thing is insanely long all ready. I am scared to see how big it gets.

Horsemouth.
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Cat durid is 4 fite
Bare durid is 4 tank
Moonkin 4 moon stuff
Tree durid is 4 heel!
#108 Apr 27 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
I SHOULD be able to get some time tomorrow to work on it.

I hope...
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#109 Apr 28 2009 at 4:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, I'm pretty sure my eyeballs are bleeding and my brain is hemorrhaging, but Armor Penetration has to be the most difficult stat to determine it's stat ranking.

Armor Penetration was buffed with the latest patch, which further complicates matters.

Armor Penetration gets stronger the more you stack whereas agility has to deal with diminishing returns for it's benefit to crit.

Here's were sh*t gets crazy.

Armor Penetration changeover where it rates higher than agility also is based on your overall stats, i.e. if you have high ArP, but low AP and Crit, then your ArP needed to make it more powerful than agility will be higher than someone who has higher AP and Crit.

Therefore the amount of ArP you need to stack to have it be valued higher than Agility is directly related to the overall AP and Crit you have meaning the better/closer you are to BiS, the more likely that ArP will surpass Agility as your main focus for gemming/gearing.

Basically from what I can tell, the lower your gear level is the less you will value ArP.

The higher your gear level gets, the lower the amount of ArP you will need for it to be of more value than Agility.

The hardest part will be factoring in the loss of AP/Crit from gemming for ArP in place of Agility and making sure that your gear has high enough AP/Crit for the changeover to have a positive affect on your dps vs a negative.

Also, at higher gear levels, with high amounts of ArP, the Shred idol overtakes the Rip idol from a pure DPS standpoint due to the high levels of AP/Crit and the amount of armor reduction possible on boss mobs.

Ok....so that's that. Hopefully that makes sense and we can somehow turn that into a coherent message to our droods.

(Source #1)

(Source #2)

EDIT: Keep in mind that there is still a lot of theorycraft involved so we will be modifying this as more info comes out obviously.

EDIT x2: OMG confusion will reign! Armor Penetration can put mobs below 0 armor and continue to increase damage past ability's base damage! O.o

Edited, Apr 28th 2009 9:58am by Galenmoon
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#110 Apr 28 2009 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
Buh...

Wasn't the entire point of ArP rating working in percentage values to prevent that very thing from happening? >_>
#111 Apr 28 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, haste rating.

25.21 Haste Rating provides 1% melee haste for Druids. (as of patch 3.1)

Our GCD is already 1 sec so it cannot lower it any further through haste

It does continue to lower our white attack speed below 1 second.

It does increase our OoC procs which is based off of a Proc per attack ratio rather than a Proc per minute ratio.

Haste stacks multiplicatively. This means that it is beneficial to stack multiple haste effects. (Such as heroism/bloodlust)

Haste rating stacks additively with itself (two sources of 100 haste rating give 200 haste rating stacked together) and then is converted into a percentage that stacks multiplicatively with other sources of haste.

Haste will never be a stat to stack as it has lower benefits agility. It will never be a stat to be avoided, but stacking it to the loss of other stats (Agility, strength, attack power, crit) will never be the way to go.

EDIT: I'm just putting this here so you can edit it Horse. I don't have time to do all the editing/formatting so I'll just keep throwing info here for you to move over as you get time. (just grabbing/writing bits as I get chunks of time at work)

Edited, Apr 28th 2009 10:25am by Galenmoon
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#112 Apr 29 2009 at 1:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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uh, about the "below 0 from ArP" thing galen:

GC stated that there is a cap on how much armor you'll lose from ArP, specifically stated as such in this thread:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=16473618356&pageNo=4&sid=1#77

Quote:
Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.

We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.

So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.

Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):

If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);

For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.

The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.

A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).

These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.

Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation.


in short, no amount of ArP can ever make a target "naked" in terms of how much armor they have. at least for a druid anyway.

Edited, Apr 29th 2009 3:17am by Quor
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The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#113 Apr 29 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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I'm drunk. That is all.
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#114 Apr 29 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had seen that post Quor, the reason I posted the other one with proof was because it was dated 6 days after GC had made the post saying that it was impossible to drop armor below 0 or to have more than 100% armor penetration, etc...

Now obviously you have to take the person's word for it on EJ, but they don't tend to mess around, which is why I figured it was worth posting up.

Whether this is something that is only a PvE thing and GC thinks it's fixed for PvP (which it's usually a bigger deal on) and so it theoretically is possible.

Either way, ArP is still by far the hardest stat IMO to put a stat weight to for druids.

EDIT: Also, I know that it is pretty much impossible for druids to hit the "0 armor target" range because we don't get a buff such as battle stance, but between FFF and Sunder Armor/Shattering throw debuffs we can still have the ability to have a target with almost no armor. Warriors are really the only class that (in the context of the EJ post) could hit the 0 or less armor goal.

Edited, Apr 29th 2009 8:13am by Galenmoon
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#115 Apr 30 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Starting the bear parts now.

Then it is research for lasers and trees.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/wiki/druid_sticky_test_page

If you know stuff and like help put info there.
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Cat durid is 4 fite
Bare durid is 4 tank
Moonkin 4 moon stuff
Tree durid is 4 heel!
#118 May 01 2009 at 12:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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i see what youre saying now galen. echoing what ive heard elsewhere i cant imagine this is something theyll leave as is; it makes ArP too much of a coveted stat. at the very least i'd think they'd remove the possibility for making things have negative armor.

but...until then.....weeee!
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#119 May 01 2009 at 1:00 AM Rating: Good
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Judging from much of what I have heard else where the ArP changes only affect warrior and druid to a large degree.

Hunters gain little benefit.

Ret is a large portion of magic damage.

Rouge is poison and bleed based to a degree. Well I don't get rogue, I could see a combat ArP spec coming soonish. But I am not really a good source of rogue info.

Shammy has a big melee damage component but to much is based on shocks and lash I think.

DK may have an ArP spec but again not my forte.

So if the changes really only affect 3 specs from 2 classes the changes may stay.

*crosses fingers*

I now have to make a new cat set though...
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idiggory wrote:
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#120 May 01 2009 at 6:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dropped skinning for Jewelcrafting yesterday after I grinded some skill points of herbalism and mining on my DK.

I got him from 0 to 400/450 by this morning. Spent ~700g so far, easy sailing now. Just have to make sure I keep up with the JC daily. Funny thing is I still don't even have enough money to train all the new cuts/items because I'm BROKE! :P
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Galenmoon - 80 Feral Drood
Gavinitis - 80 Ele Shammy
Weelilboom - 73 Frost Mage
Revengery - 64 A$$ Rogue

just to name a few...
#121 May 01 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Excellent
Just mine and mine and mine. Believe me you'll get more than enough mats and you'll make a sh*t load of money doing it.

All the eternal earth you get take that and all the green quality gems and make those rings and amulets. Then take those and DE them all and look at all the enchanting mats you've got!
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#122 May 01 2009 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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blood dks with lots of ArP might be a scary thing to see. blood already has the best scaling in terms of multipliers of the three trees; it just gets boned cause the majority of its damage is all physical.

ive heard ArP changes makes TG fury almost worthwhile again. ironic that.
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#123 May 01 2009 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
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Ya, I think the full ramifications of the ArP changes are just starting to be felt.

The math for Arms and Cat is mostly there but blood, rogue, fury and shammy are all kind of still playing with it to my knowledge. I could see a wonky haste/ArP rogue mace spec being good for PvP.
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idiggory wrote:
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#124 May 03 2009 at 4:06 AM Rating: Good
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Added the stuff Arex wrote about in the laserchicken section.

I go bed now.
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Cat durid is 4 fite
Bare durid is 4 tank
Moonkin 4 moon stuff
Tree durid is 4 heel!
#125 May 03 2009 at 4:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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hey cool im not the only one up past 5am.
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#126 May 04 2009 at 2:49 AM Rating: Excellent
Oh man what a weekend, especially after being on a long break...

- Finished noblegarden
- Finished childrens week, got Superior achievement from UP ymiron quest reward in the process
- Ran some heroics, discovered I had 25 badges, got Pendant of the Outcast Hero for kitty build
- STAFF OF TRICKERY WOOT. Still need to mongoose it.
- Tried to tank Emalon. Thought I was doing pretty well but we kept wiping due to random instagibs (novas maybe? still not sure exactly what went wrong) and then people had to leave/wg timer was up. :(
- Ran more heroics, got Shroud of Darkness...yay meta head finally
- Completed Higher Learning, 6 books in 1 day O.o
- Got to tank OS 10 pug for realz. My first real go at a serious raid MT. Was 0d so nothing particularly complicated, but hey I kept a good aggro lead (new gear certainly helped I'm sure) and nobody really died...I was noobing it up with the void zones and twilight torment though, lol :x Finally got it down by the 3rd drake, and sarth was np at all to move with the lava walls and stuff.

I'm pumped. Need to find out when guildies do naxx and try to get in on some of that hotness.
#127 May 04 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Tried to tank Emalon.


Emalon is waaay harder than Arch even after the nerfs. As they didn't nerf any of the tanks damage.

You need the health to eat a nova and a few hits to reliably tank Emalon.

Threat is not as serious of an issue after the 1st overcharge as you get some alone time to build a nice lead.

Also finally got new boots. Got sick of nothing ever dropping in Naxx25 and I want better gear so the healers can focus more on other tanks and DPS in Ulduar.

Plus I want a good base level of PvP gear so I can Arena for a weapon. As I don't think OfN will ever drop for me. :(
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idiggory wrote:
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#128 May 04 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
I wasn't the one dying, was always a healer or the OT. :P
#129 May 04 2009 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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You should have switched than its easier to tank Emalon hit doesn't hit as hard.
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idiggory wrote:
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#130 May 04 2009 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
Er, I was on Emalon; you mean I should have switched to adds?
#131 May 04 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Horse I'll be getting my furious stick in about 2 weeks lawl.

Ret/Resto is pro 2's team.
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#132 May 04 2009 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Emalon doesn't hit as hard as the enraged adds do.

If it was tank death than a swap might have been called for.

Also the OT not grabbing the new adds can kill a healer very fast.

If I tank Emalon I try and Swipe to grab the new add then just have the other tank Taunt it off


edit: Arex you're a bastard. gratz



Edited, May 4th 2009 4:42pm by Horsemouth
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#133 May 04 2009 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
I've been heavily focusing on PVP lately instead of PVE.

PVE has been shifted from boomkin to tree because apparently they want me healing again for Ulduar, being the best healer we had in BC probably helps though. But it has made me think... Hmmm, perhaps I should try resto again since I'm nigh invincible in pvp?

Well, the only thing I can say is this.

Profit.

I want MOAR FURIOUS GEARS!
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#134 May 05 2009 at 3:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I had a really good point, lots of solid math. People backing that math up.

Doctors and hot HAWT nurses.

Sexy women everywhere and people throwing money at me.

Wait.

I lied I may PvP feral.

LIKE A BOSS
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#135 May 05 2009 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
Home sick today and there's maintenance. Boo hiss :(
#136 May 05 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Overlord Norellicus wrote:
Home sick today and there's maintenance. Boo hiss :(


Well then you should obviously research resto and boomkin mechanics to help with the sticky. :)
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#137 May 05 2009 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
Horse I know the mechanics I'm just too f'n busy at work. It goes like this...

Work, where I do a majority of my posting > Girlfriend > Wow (Raiding/PvP) > Second Job.

I should find a speech to text program and just do that... I can see it now.

"And you'll want to pick up bracket link equals h t t p colon backslash backslash w o w period a l l a k h a z a m period c o m backslash d b backslash s p e l l period h t m l question mark w s p e l l equals sign 3 3 5 9 6 end bracket balance of power bracket backslash link end bracket for an extra four percent sign to your hit"



PS: Thats the actual link to balance of power :D
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#138 May 05 2009 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Work, where I do a majority of my posting > Girlfriend > Wow (Raiding/PvP) > Second Job.


I am the same, well with out the second job. Unless drinkin counts.

I have missed some truely hilarious threads that start on weekends. Then Monday I'm all having to read 3 pages of posts just so can knowing what is going enough to make some wiseass remark.

Plus like right now I should be working on the stickie. ;)
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#139 May 06 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I finally got it.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#140 May 06 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
^^ Liar ^^
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#141 May 06 2009 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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Armory me ;)

I think I left it on when I logged.

Now to get Mongoose.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#142 May 06 2009 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent
You hacked the armory site, you're still LYING!

LIAR!
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(V)(;,,;)(V) Why not Zoidberg?
#143 May 06 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Wow, I just checked out the sticky. Awesome job. I really need the help regarding cat and bear and the way this is presented and simplified is great for anyone jumping in. (by that I mean, my short attention span could handle this well, thank you x100)

Grats on the staff horse.

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Beulahmae Arboreal Druid Doomhammer
#144 May 06 2009 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
Why must everyone on here be a feral druid :(

There are like 5 boomkin posters...

QQ
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#145 May 06 2009 at 4:06 PM Rating: Good
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Arex wrote:
There are like 5 boomkin posters...


On the druid section or all of Alla?

Could be both.

Haven't seen a reliable resto in a bit, since Friar went feral again I think.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#146 May 06 2009 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
I've always been feral in spirit - right back to my golden days tanking in ZG pre-BC. It is just that hard times forced me to go to the dark side or my guild would be unable to raid. We had 2-3 druids and an enhance shammy that regularly had to respec heals to enable us to raid. We tried to rotate the healing duties, but more often than not it was all of us having to respec :(

The irony....last night we had enough for a 10man Ulduar except we had 5 mainspec healers on! Where were they in our hour of need!!

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RareTrevor - Feral/Resto
Other Rares - RareBertha (90 Mage), RareAgatha (90 Paladin), RareMildred (90 Warlock)
RareGretchen (85 Hunter), RareHelga (85 Shaman), RarePearl (74 Rogue), RareEileen (51 Warrior), RareDorothy (46 Priest)
Rarebeast-Feral Druid. and 9 other Level 80+ Rares [b]R.I.P.
#147 May 06 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Excellent
I'm a Resto druid, not something I see changing. But I'm also very casual Smiley: frown as far as this game goes. I however lack many aspects and skills of what it would take to make a write up. Including the fact that I lurk more than post, tend to ramble, and am challenged when it comes to focusing. (unless I'm healing har har) I'd also melt the brains of grammar-monitors in 5 seconds flat.

People tell me I'm a damn good healer, but from what I've seen here, that is always a relative thing (and friends say those things don't they?). I might be a "terrible" healer to others. So what I will say is that I love healing, I heal as well as I can at the moment, and I'm always striving to heal better :) but most of all I really just like having a good time.

That sounded like a personal ad, how udderly embarrassing. *cringe*

I swear I thought someone else here, that is more prolific than me, was a tree druid?
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Beulahmae Arboreal Druid Doomhammer
#148 May 06 2009 at 5:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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tree druid here. been resto since resto was the only thing a druid *could* be.

theres a few others around here, whos names escape me atm.

i miss kouren :(
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Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#149 May 07 2009 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
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7,396 posts
Ok, I have had a few.

I have noticed the stupid has been creepy into Alla.

I think the o-boards hopeless folks have been posting more on these boards.

So umm...

I need haste data for moonkin, how wraith and SF procs vary - well just Eclipse info in general. Haste clipping - is it a thing for a sticky or more advanced or something I am confused about? Or maybe just me not knowing the spec? Those are my main balance questions, I think I have the rest. Arex can tell me or fix it if I screw up any way.

Resto, I can kind of make it happen but Quor please proof me. Please. Like you said before no heavy lifting due to grad school. Just touch up is all I'm asking for.

Galen and other ferals please proof the feral section, I am just about done with it. Just the last of the bear parts to finish up.

I am going to add a generic feral section at the end with Friar's numbers from the EJ thread and other generic goodies. The main post will of course change to reflect this.

I love how we are a very solid community right now. I want it to stay that way.

With a new sticky we can refer people there than hope for better posts.

Granted even after we have a sticky we will still be nice and help.

But I want that resource to be there. Mainly so people can read and ask intelligent questions. I am hoping having a strong sticky will help.
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idiggory wrote:
Drinking at home. But I could probably stand to get laid.
#150 May 07 2009 at 4:40 AM Rating: Good
Got to tank naxx 10 spider wing the other night, woot. It's rookie league and I'm behind the curve, I know, but it's an accomplishment for me :P

Think I did pretty good overall though I noobed up the first go at Anub'rekhan...didn't realize you had to kite around the OUTSIDE of the moat, not just the border edge of the inner platform. We died on other bosses too but it wasn't my fault <.<

It's retarded how much higher my TPS is when I keep FFF on cooldown too. Jumped from like 2500 to over 4k >_>

Got some new pants off Maexx. Right after I got done gemming my last set not even a week before, /sigh. /toss 100g.

Edit: I just today noticed my gear has a retarded amount of expertise lol, beyond the dodge cap even...though I guess I can't complain about less parried hits. Really need to get some extra hit in there but heroics haven't been kind, think I wore out all my karma with that staff.

Edited, May 7th 2009 8:42am by Norellicus
#151 May 08 2009 at 2:11 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
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