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Criticizing the military is pretty severe in American culture. Practices, funding, etc. Frankly, even when people have legitimate lawsuits, they are often seen as "un-American" for filing them (for instance, in the DADT cases).

Hell, it's still largely political suicide to call for a decrease in the military budget by pruning only programs that aren't likely to work. We aren't even talking about core projects--we are talking about ones that have already received millions of dollars, have made no progress, and probably won't... But to say that publically will really lose you a ton of support (in both parties, but obviously more with the GOP).

And that's insane. Even people protesting our wars for the last decade have been seen as being anti-America, even though most of them wanted to protect American lives...

My issues with the military go way deeper than just boot camp practices, though. Well, to be fair, there are few aspects of our military I DON'T take issue with.

But here's a good example. The neighbor of some good family friends of ours went through Desert Storm. He's had some pretty severe health problems since then because of the experimental drug cocktails he was given. Well, PROBABLY because of them. The problem is that what he was given is classified (or at least was), so no doctors have been able to actually evaluate the effects it could have had on his body. And the military's response was basically "We're paying your medical bills, so stfu."

Well, yeah, can't you? Harassment and all that?

Speaking of harassment, that's another issue with the military that I have. Female officers and non-officers get raped, and when they try to report it, are basically laughed at or told that they're lying. I'm sure this doesn't happen in all cases, but it definitely seems to happen a lot.

That's just silly. What kind of mistakes are we talking here? Someone accidentally discharging a weapon? Someone being unable to complete a physical training course? Someone misunderstanding an order?

Don't get me wrong, soldiers need to follow orders. I'm just questioning if inducing a light mental trauma is the best way to go about it.

And yeah, that wouldn't work here. Forcing someone to do push-ups until they cry would constitute as not only punishment, but also harassment. Forcing someone to the point where they break down has no educational purpose, or rather, the purpose could be achieved in a less retarded way.

If its during training? They'd be yelled at and PT'd for it all. More Physical Training to complete that course, and probably some yelling for misunderstanding an order. If you discharge your weapon accidentally, you can kill someone. There is no gray area here. In the Army, not only is the soldier punished for accidental discharge, but so is his team leader and probably even Squad Leader and above. We don't tolerate acts that can get yourself and your friends killed.

Its slightly different when in the real Army. A misunderstood order will get discussed. No screaming, no PT, unless the kid just can't get it through his head. I had a soldier that just refused to tell me where he went off to. I have to know where my soldiers are at all times. He just refused to tell anyone and would wander off, usually to the gym. I took him aside, and started to PT him in private. Pushups, situps, etc. All the time I was calm, and kept explaining that if I don't know where he is, I don't know if he's alive or ready for a mission or anything. I didn't care if he went somewhere, just that someone knew where he was. Physical training, I've done PT along with soldiers to help them. I like to run. No, I love to run. If one of my soldiers can't pass their PT Test, I take them with me running. It isn't easy, but no screaming, no "abuse." But they are tired afterwards.

I get it, outside looking in it looks cruel. If yelling is going to cause light mental trauma, what the hell is having explosives and gunfire going on all around going to do to them? Its best to try to build up someone's tolerance for stress while in a training environment so (hopefully) when something really DOES happen they handle it better.

I don't care if it makes me look like a horrible human being, but I won't let my soldiers die because someone didn't follow orders and left a round in their weapon and it went off. I won't let my soldiers die because one of them didn't feel like following orders, or left us undermanned because he felt like going to a gym. I won't let them die because they didn't have the stamina to run from one alley to another when someone was firing at us. If I have to be an ***hole to assure everyone comes back alive, then I'll proudly be that ***hole.

US Army isn't a business.

So what would you do?

Because this isn't just announcing that they are ******** up, it's forcing everyone else to work harder while forcing the person responsible to stand up front, so that they are all free to hate him as much as they want.

They didn't just ***** up, they decided to throw a punch at a superior officer in front of everyone. What would you do in that situation?

You mean like turning the main body of the run back to pick up the one person that can't keep up? Its a subtle "never leave anyone behind" thing along with giving the people that can keep up more exercise. You won't get better if all you do is the bare minimum, so that helps them out. That's not really a shame/punishment kind of thing. After all, if you're not tired after exercising, then what was the point?

I think there's a disconnect that I'm missing, and I apologize for that. Its just I'm responsible for some kids' lives, and I take it really serious. One of the few things I do.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 11:56pm by lolgaxe

I fail at +1.

Saw Deep Impact on TV the other day. Tripped me out seeing Frodo so young.

Which is often what's being stressed with these kind of "group punishment" behaviors.