As in the topic, I'll stick to wondering. Feel free to leave if you've had enough after my stunlock thread.
I haven't leveled a druid high during my wow episodes and I'm just curious...
I know, everyone does, that Druids are but all-rounders to the bone.
They do everything - name any class and the druid will have a skill, spell or talent that would somehow imitate those of the mentioned class.
I was so like 'wtf?!' when I saw druids even have the hunterlike track humanoids skill.
I was having doubts about making a druid, thinking that whatever I do I won't do well enough. Other classes happen to have problems leveling, so why would I not have problems when I'm not as good in any of the trades? These doubts kept me away from druids.
Recently however I looked up the skills of druids and saw one thing that really made me think it was an error - Shred.
Comparison:
Rogue stuff
End game Backstab - 160% weapon damage (has to be a dagger so that isn't so high) + 255, or
End game Mutilate - both daggers attack plus 101 on each (+50% when poisoned, but hey, we got abolish poison lol ;d)
And Rogues are doing well.
A glance and the druids counterpart:
End game Shred - 225% weapon damage + 405.
Oh, and Mangle will push that up by 30% along with some talents as well.
This is where I scream 'w00t!'. Isn't Shred doing a bit too much? Come on, it's like rogue's ambush (the counterpart of which, ravage, does 350% dmg + 514 which seems to totally outclass ambush).
This leads me to a thought that Druids can really do quite well in the terms of DPS, or if not DPS, at least some burst cat form damage.
All you seem to need is a big 2H weapon that does huge dmg, then cat, Mangle and Boom, zomg oneshot Shred.
I can't believe druids would do better than rogues, so where did I go wrong? Are you getting much less AP from Agility? Or is there another thing that balances the damage?
The most important question
What can druids *really* do very well?
By this I mean: How close are druids to warriors when it comes to tanking? How close to mages when it comes to nuking? How close to priests when healing? How close to rogues when doing cat form damage?
All above assuming you have a correct spec (resto for being compared to priests, for instance).
All info appreciated.
Respect.
Edited, Apr 27th 2007 4:38pm by XanNerull
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Comparing rogue and druid abilities straight up is a little misleading. Rogue abilities all operate off of a normalized 1.8 attack speed, where druid abilities operate off of the cat's 1.0 attack speed. This means that the base hit damage that is used is significantly higher for a rogue then it is for a druid. Where a end game druid might be hitting for 200 white damage, a rogue's main hand would be hitting for 360 white damge.
So a rogue's backstab with a 1.8 speed dagger would do 360 x 160% + 255, or 831 damage non crit.
A druid with the same base dps using the 1.0 attack speed would be 200 x 225% + 405, or 855 damage non crit.
A difference of 34 damage, not nearly as big of a gap as one would initially believe. It's also worth noting that the rogue's backstab formula scales better then the druid formula as well, so with higher end gear rogues have the advantage. With a 50% increase in base damage over the last numbers, the rogue would be hitting for 1119 where the druid would be hitting for 1080~
Talents and ability modifiers skewer things past this however, so it's not an accurate way to show actual dps, but it does underline the base differences on how cat and rogue damage is calculated.
As for how we measure up to our parent classes, we have about 95% of the power and 30% of the utility of the parent class each form is based on, assuming using proper gear and spec. Moonkins can't polymorph, Bears can't sheild wall, Cats can't kick, and Trees can't res a group. Our forms bring nearly the full strength of the parent class in it's primary role, but none of the added utility. Instead we are reliant on our flexibility to offset the weakness of our lack of utility in a single form.
So a rogue's backstab with a 1.8 speed dagger would do 360 x 160% + 255, or 831 damage non crit.
A druid with the same base dps using the 1.0 attack speed would be 200 x 225% + 405, or 855 damage non crit.
A difference of 34 damage, not nearly as big of a gap as one would initially believe. It's also worth noting that the rogue's backstab formula scales better then the druid formula as well, so with higher end gear rogues have the advantage. With a 50% increase in base damage over the last numbers, the rogue would be hitting for 1119 where the druid would be hitting for 1080~
Talents and ability modifiers skewer things past this however, so it's not an accurate way to show actual dps, but it does underline the base differences on how cat and rogue damage is calculated.
As for how we measure up to our parent classes, we have about 95% of the power and 30% of the utility of the parent class each form is based on, assuming using proper gear and spec. Moonkins can't polymorph, Bears can't sheild wall, Cats can't kick, and Trees can't res a group. Our forms bring nearly the full strength of the parent class in it's primary role, but none of the added utility. Instead we are reliant on our flexibility to offset the weakness of our lack of utility in a single form.
It really all depends on how you spec your druid. What you were looking at was probably a feral spec, but then you have to look at other things. Such as a Rogue having less chance of getting spotted, Sap, Vanish, and other fun things. Yes, a druid CAN be better than the class it emulates, but most important is skill. Also, there's the fact that Shred costs 60 energy, as does Mangle (I think) and Feral also only has one way to stun in Cat Form (Pounce) but there's also Feral Charge and Bash in the Bear Form. And the extra AP from Agility is one AP for every AGI point.
And on the subject of Feral, a druid bear form can hold aggro as well (if not better) than a warrior if specced right, armored properly, ect.
As for Resto-Spec, mine is only level 46, and my Regrowth (heals for some, about half of Healing Touch (our big heal) then heals some over time) can crit (which currently has +30% crit) for a starting heal as high as a Priest's Greater Heal at the same level. They also get Nature's Swiftness, which lets you cast a spell instantly, which is nice when you can heal for about half of a warriors health instantly when they need it. There's also Omen of Clarity (though most any spec has a good enough reason to try and get it) which is the same as a Shaman's. We also have Swiftmend (takes all our Heal Over Time effects on a player and smacks them instantly for extra).
Then there's Balance Spec, which gets Doomkin form at level 40, which is pretty much a Bear form with slight changes for casters, and also have VERY high crits just from talents alone, which can give very fun effects (like a 1.5 (I think) stun).
So it just matters on the Spec for what you do best in.
And on the subject of Feral, a druid bear form can hold aggro as well (if not better) than a warrior if specced right, armored properly, ect.
As for Resto-Spec, mine is only level 46, and my Regrowth (heals for some, about half of Healing Touch (our big heal) then heals some over time) can crit (which currently has +30% crit) for a starting heal as high as a Priest's Greater Heal at the same level. They also get Nature's Swiftness, which lets you cast a spell instantly, which is nice when you can heal for about half of a warriors health instantly when they need it. There's also Omen of Clarity (though most any spec has a good enough reason to try and get it) which is the same as a Shaman's. We also have Swiftmend (takes all our Heal Over Time effects on a player and smacks them instantly for extra).
Then there's Balance Spec, which gets Doomkin form at level 40, which is pretty much a Bear form with slight changes for casters, and also have VERY high crits just from talents alone, which can give very fun effects (like a 1.5 (I think) stun).
So it just matters on the Spec for what you do best in.
Quote:
All you seem to need is a big 2H weapon that does huge dmg, then cat, Mangle and Boom, zomg oneshot Shred.
Except that the sort of weapon you mention is as good as a spoon for a druid. Weapon damage has no effect on your damage in forms. Only the stats on the weapon matter.
A grey item with 2 DPS & 1 Str on it is better than a 200dps weapon with no stats.
Oh lol... so I had a retarded understanding of the shapeshifting mechanics.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Thanks for pointing it out.
Basically our claws/paws have their own DPS. You are wearing your staff/mace etc on you, so the stats work, but you are not actually hitting with it. This means the DPS of the weapon is not used. Also, for this reason, chance on hit procs like the Crusader enchant & stun procs do not work because you are not hitting with that weapon so there is no trigger for the effect to proc.
The only time that the stats
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