Bleh...more survival questions...Follow

I'm looking at a survival build to work into as I'm levelling (99% PvE, as I'm on a softie server). The main things I wanted to get from survival/marks is:
1. HUGE crit chance, seeing as how I'm used to BM and I'll have GFtT.
2. Greatly improved traps, as I don't use em often enough so by getting the talents I'll guilt myself into learning them.
3. The ability to get out of melee quick if I accidently pull.

So what I'm wondering is how good, for PvE, are:
Slay Humanoids/Monsters
Entrapment
Imp Wing Clip
Thrill of the Hunt
EW
Deterrence/Counterattack/Deflection

And how good is my build? =P

EDIT: forgot to post my build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mZVxbRVZIhcMzfbuAzVo
or a similar
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mZVxbRVZIhhr0fbhAzVo

Which one is better, or along the similar lines which would you choose?
My marks side is pretty much set, and on surv I definitely am keeping Eagle Eye, Imp FD, the later 3 trap talents, killer instinct, wyvern sting, readiness, and LR, but the fillers I am undecided on.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2007 4:08pm by skribs

My thing is I tend to shy away from procs unless A) they are REALLY good, B) I already have them and the talent makes it better (i.e. crit/parry/etc, even then if it's crit I'd normally rather get +dmg which is why this build is wierd for me), or if C) they come in addition to stuff that's already better (like the shadow bolt on heartseeking xbow).

So entrapment would have to follow A, but since I'll probably be doing PvE and mainly using traps for group benefit or for easy CC, it'll be mainly freeze trap - so the talent wouldn't work. I can see in PvP, but not really PvE.

Sayis wrote:

Hmmm. I'm a BM hunter who spilled over into the MM tree, so I don't have experience with this talent. It sounds like a really great idea, especially since I use traps extensively during guild dungeon runs. I might have to go and give this thing a look.

Entrapment is nice, although I am unsure if it is worth the cost.
But still, I would rather have entrapment then 3% extra chance to parry for PvE.

Survivalist is fantastic. 10% more HP can easely end up at 700-800 extra health at 70.

Deterrence isnt that good in PvE if you ask me.

Imp. Feign Death is worthless, Feign Death isnt resisted anyway unless you are fighting mobs of way higher level.

Counterattack isnt good either, i would never use it... just like that mongoose thingy.

Expose Weakness is great after next patch (100% chance instead of 30).

Master tactician is awful... and readyness isnt worth losing 6 points for if you ask me.

I would go for this, with the last 3 points in either thrill of the hunt or effeciency.
Although i think thrill will be more mana effecient.

Though i am not an expert, i think this build makes you the most useful in a group, wether that is a five man or a raid.
(and solo, well.. your a hunter anyway solo wont be a problem)

edited for spellings and stuff.

Edited, Apr 24th 2007 10:05pm by Aethien

Then my question is, why do you want Imp. Feign death?
As I said, it is hardly ever resisted thus making the points spend better elsewhere in my opinion.
I also think Readyness is very nice, but not worth 6 points (master tactician is really crap... 6% is such a small chance for an effect that is cool, but not that fantastic, as you will get a high crit anyway.)

Furthermore, I changed more then just remove those 2 things.
I said why i wouldnt pick those things. maybe you can say why you would?

so please post something useful, instead of just saying that it is wrong.

Readiness is one of the reasons I'm going survival. To go into survival for readiness and not get readiness would be like buying a gaming computer with a Pentium 3. I want the ability to trap multiple mobs at once.

FD may not get resisted much, but I find that in the later levels I may be soloing 3 mobs that are orange to me, and if just one resists my FD I'm screwed. This will lower that chance. If you assume 5% chance to not resist, and 3 mobs, that's a 15% chance one of them will not resist it. +4% on each lowers it to a 3% chance. Or for kiting those much higher level mobs. Understand I'm building in here as I level.

The question becomes, if I drop deterrence and counterattack, where to put those, because I like the build I have displayed. One point has to go on tier 1-3, the other point can go anywhere.

With the new Entrapment nerf incoming, Entrapment will lose much of its prowess. It wouldn't be completely off to predict it becoming useless in PvP now.

In either case, PvE wise, improving traps is unfortunately not a great choice: The higher you go, the less effect you'll have.

On your builds: You seem to be under the misconception that health is not needed for raiding. This is a myth; you do not do damage if you're dead. Survivalist is a great talent, and definitely has more merit than those Slaying ones, which are too situational (Even someone that only has PvP on the menu will rarely take up Humanoid Slaying and never more than 2 points.) It's one of those talents that seem good on paper, but most of the time sit around doing nothing.

The same goes for Deterrance, which can save your butt against meleeing mobs, no matter what class (Raid or otherwise).

Also, what are you going to use Readiness for?

I think it's really hard to rate in terms of goodness, in order to do that - I at least - need to know more about your specific preferences, and what you're trying to do with the build.

One definite suggestion though: Pets are not very powerful if you're into the Survival tree, giving it some focus won't really increase your dps that much. I can't say I've tested it, but the stats speak for themselves. Your AP will be significantly lower, and critchance doesn't share onto your pet.

I did the math, made some assumptions, etc. Basically what I came up with was the bonus damage overall from MS (assuming crit chance * 0.3) vs the damage directly after a crit on EW (and with a very high crit chance EW should be up most of the time) the only real difference was in aimed shot. Otherwise the difference was of a few decimals.

I think I'll go for this build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mZVxbRcZIhhMofMhAzAo as it will help my party more
although http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=VZVxbRZIhhMofMhAuAo looks good for the survival crit bonuses
as does http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mZVxbRVZIhhMofMhAzqo for the huge aimed shot crits (meaning I'll cycle aimed shot in a lot more)
and to drop aimed shot and GFtT I could do http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=mxZVVZIhhMofMhAuAo which would give me insane durability as far as mana goes.

I'm leaning towards 1 or 4, although 3 looks good too.