http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0xcrdVIsx0VZZxvI00o
Just curious, currently I'm 66 balance spec and completely in minus nature's grasp. Just wondering how that build would work. Is that 5% crit chance really completely worth it? Nature's swiftness seems like it would provide enormous survivability. I'd like an opinion with what is thought and how much taking some of those talents away from balance would effect my overall dps and burst dps. Thanks.
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Balance spec, just curious what experienced peeps think. . .Follow
Balance sucks. Go Feral.
Either this person is joking, or a complete moron.
Ravida wrote:
Balance sucks. Go Feral.
How about you go be retarded somewhere else, hmm?
4 posts
Balance owns and the 5% is really worth it because it not only helps you but also everyone else in the group. Also you'll be critting 1 more time out of 20 and with the talents, thats HUGE damage. 5% = definitely worth it in my opinion.
I'm not a big fan of that build, to be honest. You're missing on some great talents.
It would be worth it to drop one point of anything to take Moonkin Form. Also, Dreamstate is a must unless you wanna live up to the old Oomkin reputation. (Balance without Dreamstate will make you craptastic, trust me)
Points put in Nature's Focus could be better spent unless you plan on PvP healing much. IMO the point used to take Moonkin will increase your spell DPS more significantly than the 5 points put in Moonfury. Basically that talent increases the BASE damage of your spells so +Spell Damage is unaffected. (This talent sucks, IMO, but if you'd want every last bit of damage possible you could take it. In your case you're not aiming for full damage so you could actually skip it if you have a decent amount of +Spell Damage)
So, toying with your base build a bit I'd rather suggest using this.
Resto
-4 points moved from Nature's Focus to Subtlety. In the next patch this will affect threat for all spells so it'll be worth taking to manage your aggro in instances and raids.
Balance
-Removed Moonfury. (Cause it suxx0rz!!1!eleven)
-Put 3/3 Dreamstate.
-Put 1/1 Moonkin. (Dooooomkin)
-Put that last point in Nature's Grasp cause it's just so much more useful than 1/5 Moonfury. Heck, just a single point in NG is, IMO, better than 5/5 Moonfury.
Feel free to toy around with it a bit if you want. You might wanna put that last point in something else than NG but I don't see what. Could max Brambles, but it's meh in comparison. Could take 1/2 Nature's Reach but it's still not as useful. Still, it's your build, not mine so do what you like and feel comfortable playing with. :P
Hope this helped a bit.
It would be worth it to drop one point of anything to take Moonkin Form. Also, Dreamstate is a must unless you wanna live up to the old Oomkin reputation. (Balance without Dreamstate will make you craptastic, trust me)
Points put in Nature's Focus could be better spent unless you plan on PvP healing much. IMO the point used to take Moonkin will increase your spell DPS more significantly than the 5 points put in Moonfury. Basically that talent increases the BASE damage of your spells so +Spell Damage is unaffected. (This talent sucks, IMO, but if you'd want every last bit of damage possible you could take it. In your case you're not aiming for full damage so you could actually skip it if you have a decent amount of +Spell Damage)
So, toying with your base build a bit I'd rather suggest using this.
Resto
-4 points moved from Nature's Focus to Subtlety. In the next patch this will affect threat for all spells so it'll be worth taking to manage your aggro in instances and raids.
Balance
-Removed Moonfury. (Cause it suxx0rz!!1!eleven)
-Put 3/3 Dreamstate.
-Put 1/1 Moonkin. (Dooooomkin)
-Put that last point in Nature's Grasp cause it's just so much more useful than 1/5 Moonfury. Heck, just a single point in NG is, IMO, better than 5/5 Moonfury.
Feel free to toy around with it a bit if you want. You might wanna put that last point in something else than NG but I don't see what. Could max Brambles, but it's meh in comparison. Could take 1/2 Nature's Reach but it's still not as useful. Still, it's your build, not mine so do what you like and feel comfortable playing with. :P
Hope this helped a bit.
Selverein, I'm curious why you think Moonfury suxx0rz!!1!eleven. I've vacillated on this one myself, largely because of misinformation: it applies after +dmg equipment; no, it applies before; no, after.
Two tiny modifications I might make to Selverein's suggested modification, pending his answer to the above: Move the 5th point from Naturalist to Subtlety, unless threat is really never a problem already. And maybe move the 4th Naturalist point to Omen of Clarity; as with Nature's Grasp, the raiding Moonkin might not use it that often, but for one point it's awfully useful when you do.
Two tiny modifications I might make to Selverein's suggested modification, pending his answer to the above: Move the 5th point from Naturalist to Subtlety, unless threat is really never a problem already. And maybe move the 4th Naturalist point to Omen of Clarity; as with Nature's Grasp, the raiding Moonkin might not use it that often, but for one point it's awfully useful when you do.
Quote:
Balance sucks. Go Feral
Thats why ferals get the **** nuked out of them.
Anyways on to matters that dont have to deal with moronic people like him.
Woah no offence, but if you plan on PvP-in at all you'd get creamed with that build. No Natures Reach, treants, dreamstae. And come on not even Moonkin? The hell?
Even if your raiding that would suck. Try this:http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0xcrdVIsx0VZZxvI00o
Seems like a decently raid/PvP build. Well at any rate better then the one you had before.
Quote:
-Removed Moonfury. (Cause it suxx0rz!!1!eleven)
Woah Moonfury doesnt suck. Maybe Moonglow, but not Moonfury.
Last I heard Moonfury applies BEFORE +Spell Damage (kinda why Wrath of Cenarius was added) and so it does not seem to be worth 5 points to me.
With the whole downranking nukes and relying on +Spell Damage, this talents becomes a waste.
I dunno what the typical downranking of nukes is, but let's say:
Starfire rank 8 with +800 Spell Damage.
Without Moonfury: 540-636 +800 = average of 1388
With Moonfury: 594-699.6 +800 = average of 1447 (Total increase of 4.25% damage)
Downranked Starfire... let's say rank 5? with +800 Spell Damage, again.
With the new rules for downranking, it becomes an effective +720 Spell Damage.
Without Moonfury: 362-428 +720 = average of 1115
With Moonfury: 398.2-470.8 +720 = average of 1155 (About 3.6% increase here)
I'm not an expert in Starfire downranking so I dunno what the most common rank used is, but this is a general idea of how sucky Moonfury is. Max out Wrath of Cenarius and then we'll be talking damage. ;)
EDIT: Please point out any mistake made in the calculations cause I'd really prefer this talent to give a nice boost to the Moonkin's DPS. It just doesn't seem to do the job, though. (Reminds me a LOT of Gift of Nature in the Resto tree before it becamse a prerequisite to higher tier talents)
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 8:11am by Selverein
With the whole downranking nukes and relying on +Spell Damage, this talents becomes a waste.
I dunno what the typical downranking of nukes is, but let's say:
Starfire rank 8 with +800 Spell Damage.
Without Moonfury: 540-636 +800 = average of 1388
With Moonfury: 594-699.6 +800 = average of 1447 (Total increase of 4.25% damage)
Downranked Starfire... let's say rank 5? with +800 Spell Damage, again.
With the new rules for downranking, it becomes an effective +720 Spell Damage.
Without Moonfury: 362-428 +720 = average of 1115
With Moonfury: 398.2-470.8 +720 = average of 1155 (About 3.6% increase here)
I'm not an expert in Starfire downranking so I dunno what the most common rank used is, but this is a general idea of how sucky Moonfury is. Max out Wrath of Cenarius and then we'll be talking damage. ;)
EDIT: Please point out any mistake made in the calculations cause I'd really prefer this talent to give a nice boost to the Moonkin's DPS. It just doesn't seem to do the job, though. (Reminds me a LOT of Gift of Nature in the Resto tree before it becamse a prerequisite to higher tier talents)
Edited, Apr 20th 2007 8:11am by Selverein
I guess we just need a definitive answer to the question of when +dmg applies. I recently read something (maybe citing wowwiki?) stating, as if the writer actually knew what he was talking about, that damage-boosting talents apply before +dmg from gear, while healing-boosting talents apply after +healing from gear. I have no idea why this would be, and I would like to see the source code, testimony from a developer, or solid experimental data before believing it.
I agree. It's very hard to find an entirely reliable source for this kind of info. I remember, however, that before 2.0 Gift of Nature was skipped by most Resto Druids because it was applied before gear bonuses and thus was complete crap due to the whole downranking heals process.
I've had no news of any change regarding that matter, but I'm definitely not the most up-to-date person trolling these forums so I'm sure someone could come up with the real answer.
I've had no news of any change regarding that matter, but I'm definitely not the most up-to-date person trolling these forums so I'm sure someone could come up with the real answer.
Scholar
30 posts
I appreciate all the feedback, delayed as the thanks are. Thank you.
Shouldn't take more than 5 minutes of testing outside Shatt to figure out which is it... figure your min and max possible hit when applied before damage, and min and max if applied after. I'd test it out myself but my druid's level 24 >.>
Mind Blast and Darkness was specifically changed in 2.0 to apply AFTER +dmg (unlisted change), I assumed pretty much all talents were changed to work the same way.
EDIT: Just to be safe, it'd have to be tested for all 3 spells. Darkness and Mind Blast was the only spell that worked like that, all other shadow priest spells had it applied AFTER from the beginning. One of those crazy Blizz things >.>
Edited, Apr 26th 2007 2:41pm by lsfreak
Mind Blast and Darkness was specifically changed in 2.0 to apply AFTER +dmg (unlisted change), I assumed pretty much all talents were changed to work the same way.
EDIT: Just to be safe, it'd have to be tested for all 3 spells. Darkness and Mind Blast was the only spell that worked like that, all other shadow priest spells had it applied AFTER from the beginning. One of those crazy Blizz things >.>
Edited, Apr 26th 2007 2:41pm by lsfreak
Right, and all this undocumented stuff drives me crazy. This is just one of many, many game mechanics that are not openly documented in any organized, easily accessible fashion.
Yeah, Blizz tends to keep most of their formulas secret and leave the number crushing to us freaks. Erm, I mean enthusiasts.
I suppose that most casual gamers wouldn't give a crap about it so that's why it's not openly document. I'm just surprised it's not on WoW Wiki cause it often means no one went ahead and tested it out to let us know. It might be on the O-boards but I dread that place.
I like it when people post links here of great posts on the O-boards but I wouldn't dare sort trough all the posts over there to find something interesting/useful.
I suppose that most casual gamers wouldn't give a crap about it so that's why it's not openly document. I'm just surprised it's not on WoW Wiki cause it often means no one went ahead and tested it out to let us know. It might be on the O-boards but I dread that place.
I like it when people post links here of great posts on the O-boards but I wouldn't dare sort trough all the posts over there to find something interesting/useful.
Well, if no one else will, someone give me your armory link (or talent spec and total +dmg to each spell) and I'll figure out the damage ranges. Then you go spend 5 minutes casting it and report back which range you were seeing :P
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