·Theme
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Subtley Rogue
Subtley RogueFollow
I play a shaman, but im thinking of making a rogue.I also plan to play some serious pvp. I was checking out the talents, and i thought that subtley was a great choice. The game plan for subtley seeems to be to have as many combo points on your target as fast as you possibly can, which as we all know equals some good damage. Seems most of you guys are going combat, secondary assassin, or vise versa. just to remind you guys, i dont play rogue yet. Is there something im missing? are the stealth skills and quik combo point skills not worth getting? Im just thinking of battle grounds where i can max my dmg output by adding energy efficient combo points. Could somone please tell me how good subltey works in pvp and/or why not to use it?
I'm going engineering aswell, if that means anything, so i thought i could sneak in with a stun bomb and then start the fights off, this should seriously max dmg output, but then again, i would like a first hand comment.
8 posts
I personally am a subtley rogue. I find it quite rewarding, but as of now, I am only level 22, so I'm probably not the best person to get advice from. What I do know is, all I have to do is stealth, ambush(180 - 299 damage (+1 combo point)), then gouge(15 - 50 damage? (+1 combo point)), wait a few seconds while the gouge lasts, sinister strike until my energy runs out(60-90 damage each (+1-3 combo points)), then I can hit them with a five combo point eviscerate. I think it works really well when I'm soloing. In a group I just wait for the thing to be pulled, I get behind, ambush, then backstab, then sinister strike and eviscerate. But like I said, I'm only level 22 right now, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
8 posts
Oh, and as for engineering, I was that at first and didn't really enjoy it. I found that I was spending a lot of money and there really wasn't a way to make money. Most of the raw items you need take a somewhat long time to acquire once you get past level 100 or so. When I hit around skill 140 I gave up on it and changed to skinning/leatherworking, which made me more money in a few days then I did in an entire week with engineering. Also, with leatherworking you can make some pretty nice items for yourself that you would have to buy otherwise.
1 post
I'm a sub/*** Rogue, I started with Subletry because I found it to be more rewarding earlier and throughout, assasination comming into play and blowing me away to cap it off.
With two main thoughts - CooldBlood(***) Preperation(Subletry){Wicked skills}
My idea of the perfect rogue pvp/pve template:
(I left you 7 points to do with whatever you want)
Class: Rogue
Level: 60
Unspent points: 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assassination Talents (21 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Murder - 1/2 point
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 3%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Improved Expose Armor - 2/3 points
Increases the armor reduced by your Expose Armor ability by 30%.
Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Combat Talents (2 points)
Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.
Subtlety Talents (21 points)
Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.
Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.
Ghostly Strike - 1/1 point
A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.
Initiative - 3/5 points
Gives you a 45% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.
Preparation - 1/1 point
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.
Unspent talent points: 7
********************************
So think about this now folks, you can cooldblood ambush(HUGE 800 crits) your foe(3cp), hit dodge then ghostly strike(1cp). All together now you have 75% chance to dodge for 7 seconds 50% for 20sec or whatever it is. eviscerate (restore 25 energy)[dodge runs out} vanish - Ambush (3cp) stun whatever, hit preperation
and do it all over again vanish/cooldblood is up so cooldblood/ambush is possible.. if played out properly well, you get the idea.
Keeping in mind, stun is almost your most important friend during pvp against any healers or casters. You dont wana let those heals get through, we have so much stun it's crazy.
Oh and, it sucks playing against people that are alot higher cause they spot your stealth & vanish when close to them right away. So these tricks are... useless.
Tips:
-Stay in the shadows till opportunities lies best!
-Pick your targets wisely. Vanish Often raiding!
-Sometimes the only option is swiftly smacking you in the face, Run and run fast.
With two main thoughts - CooldBlood(***) Preperation(Subletry){Wicked skills}
My idea of the perfect rogue pvp/pve template:
(I left you 7 points to do with whatever you want)
Class: Rogue
Level: 60
Unspent points: 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assassination Talents (21 points)
Improved Eviscerate - 3/3 points
Increases the damage done by your Eviscerate ability by 15%.
Malice - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance by 5%.
Ruthlessness - 3/3 points
Gives your finishing moves a 60% chance to add a combo point to your target.
Murder - 1/2 point
Increases your chance to hit while using your Sap, Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot abilities by 3%.
Relentless Strikes - 1/1 point
Your finishing moves have a 20% chance per combo point to restore 25 energy.
Lethality - 5/5 points
Increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Sinister Strike, Gouge, Backstab, Ambush, Ghostly Strike, or Hemorrhage ability by 30%.
Improved Expose Armor - 2/3 points
Increases the armor reduced by your Expose Armor ability by 30%.
Cold Blood - 1/1 point
When activated, increases the critical strike chance of your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, or Eviscerate by 100%.
Combat Talents (2 points)
Improved Sinister Strike - 2/2 points
Reduces the Energy cost of your Sinister Strike ability by 5 Energy.
Subtlety Talents (21 points)
Master of Deception - 5/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while in Stealth mode. More effective than Master of Deception (Rank 4)
Opportunity - 5/5 points
Increases the damage dealt when striking from behind with your Backstab, Garrote, or Ambush abilities by 20%.
Improved Ambush - 3/3 points
Increases the critical strike chance of your Ambush ability by 40%.
Ghostly Strike - 1/1 point
A strike that deals 125% weapon damage and increases your chance to dodge by 15% for 7 seconds. Awards 1 combo point.
Initiative - 3/5 points
Gives you a 45% chance to add an additional combo point to your target when using your Ambush, Garrote, or Cheap Shot ability.
Improved Sap - 3/3 points
Adds a 90% chance to return to stealth mode after using your Sap ability.
Preparation - 1/1 point
When activated, this ability immediately finishes the cooldown on your other Rogue abilities.
Unspent talent points: 7
********************************
So think about this now folks, you can cooldblood ambush(HUGE 800 crits) your foe(3cp), hit dodge then ghostly strike(1cp). All together now you have 75% chance to dodge for 7 seconds 50% for 20sec or whatever it is. eviscerate (restore 25 energy)[dodge runs out} vanish - Ambush (3cp) stun whatever, hit preperation
and do it all over again vanish/cooldblood is up so cooldblood/ambush is possible.. if played out properly well, you get the idea.
Keeping in mind, stun is almost your most important friend during pvp against any healers or casters. You dont wana let those heals get through, we have so much stun it's crazy.
Oh and, it sucks playing against people that are alot higher cause they spot your stealth & vanish when close to them right away. So these tricks are... useless.
Tips:
-Stay in the shadows till opportunities lies best!
-Pick your targets wisely. Vanish Often raiding!
-Sometimes the only option is swiftly smacking you in the face, Run and run fast.
cyress has a decent idea going, but his build is flawed in a couple ways. expose armor is absolutely worthless.. it does NOT stack with the warrior's sunder armor (which they use to gain hate on boss type mobs). and if you use expose armor instead of kidney shot, rupture, or eviscerate.. well let's just say it's not as effective.
secondly, ghostly strike isn't that great. it costs 50 energy (which if you know how energy ticks work, makes you wait 3 ticks just to use it) AND it doesn't even do as much dmg as SS.
once you ambush, if you don't gouge immediatly, your target is going to get away from you. (priest/warlock will fear or put up their shields, or put dots on you.. mage will frost nova and blink... and if they get away from melee range, you're pretty much done for)
------------------------------------
The better sequence to use (in my experience) is: ambush, gouge, backstab,(optional blind + another backstab), coldblood/eviscerate.
It's fairly easy to do, just ambush while you're running through them, hold right click on the mouse, whip it around, and gouge.. it only gives them a fraction of a second to react to the ambush)
using this build:
-----------Subtlety Mastery---------
Camouflage Rank 5
Opportunity Rank 5
Initiative Rank 5
Improved Ambush Rank 3
Improved Sap Rank 3
Preparation Rank 1
Subtlety Total: 22
-----------Combat Mastery-----------
Improved Gouge Rank 3
Improved Sinister Strike Rank 2
Improved Backstab Rank 3
Combat Total: 8
--------Assassination Mastery-------
Improved Eviscerate Rank 3
Remorseless Attacks Rank 5
Malice Rank 5
Murder Rank 2
Lethality Rank 5
Cold Blood Rank 1
Assassination Total: 21
(you can also sub in 5 remorseless for 3 ruthlessness,1 relentless strikes, and one in poison... but I like this build with remorseless attacks because it also has imp sap, which lets you sap one target, kill the other, and have a free crit ambush on the one you sapped)
With this setup, you can easily do 4000 dmg each to two seperate targets in a matter of seconds:
sap one (still in stealth because of imp sap)
ambush, instantly gouge(they're stunned for 5.5sec while you regen to 75 energy), backstab, blind(regen to full energy), backstab, coldblood evis.
(with a good dagger at lvl 60, this can do from 3000-4500+ dmg depending on how many ambush/backstab crits you get [but remember, you have 60%+ chance to crit them])
Then, you can vanish, hit preperation, and do the same exact thing to the guy you sapped earlier.
This is MASSIVE burst dmg, and they have only a fraction of a second in between attacks/stuns to have any chance whatsoever of getting away.
ALSO, since this build includes imp sap, you can actually help with the crowd control in most instances.. ask any non-rogue, and they'll tell you they'd take a rogue with imp sap over a rogue without it any day (for instances with humanoids).. some people even seem to think it's a "must have" skill for rogue, and get upset if you don't have it.
One warning though, this build develop's extremely slowly.. you have to get into the upper 40's to low 50's before you even begin to get most of the "defining talents" of this build. But the finished build at 60 is amazing.
(the only build that compares to it in my eyes is the typical 30ass/8comb/13subt build. the only real difference between them is that my build opts for imp sap, initiative, and preperation instead of seal fate)
So that's my two cents. I hope you enjoyed reading.
Have fun.
Edited, Wed Jan 19 05:03:31 2005 by phor
secondly, ghostly strike isn't that great. it costs 50 energy (which if you know how energy ticks work, makes you wait 3 ticks just to use it) AND it doesn't even do as much dmg as SS.
Quote:
So think about this now folks, you can cooldblood ambush(HUGE 800 crits) your foe(3cp), hit dodge then ghostly strike(1cp). All together now you have 75% chance to dodge for 7 seconds 50% for 20sec or whatever it is. eviscerate (restore 25 energy)[dodge runs out} vanish - Ambush (3cp) stun whatever, hit preperation
and do it all over again vanish/cooldblood is up so cooldblood/ambush is possible.. if played out properly well, you get the idea.
and do it all over again vanish/cooldblood is up so cooldblood/ambush is possible.. if played out properly well, you get the idea.
once you ambush, if you don't gouge immediatly, your target is going to get away from you. (priest/warlock will fear or put up their shields, or put dots on you.. mage will frost nova and blink... and if they get away from melee range, you're pretty much done for)
------------------------------------
The better sequence to use (in my experience) is: ambush, gouge, backstab,(optional blind + another backstab), coldblood/eviscerate.
It's fairly easy to do, just ambush while you're running through them, hold right click on the mouse, whip it around, and gouge.. it only gives them a fraction of a second to react to the ambush)
using this build:
-----------Subtlety Mastery---------
Camouflage Rank 5
Opportunity Rank 5
Initiative Rank 5
Improved Ambush Rank 3
Improved Sap Rank 3
Preparation Rank 1
Subtlety Total: 22
-----------Combat Mastery-----------
Improved Gouge Rank 3
Improved Sinister Strike Rank 2
Improved Backstab Rank 3
Combat Total: 8
--------Assassination Mastery-------
Improved Eviscerate Rank 3
Remorseless Attacks Rank 5
Malice Rank 5
Murder Rank 2
Lethality Rank 5
Cold Blood Rank 1
Assassination Total: 21
(you can also sub in 5 remorseless for 3 ruthlessness,1 relentless strikes, and one in poison... but I like this build with remorseless attacks because it also has imp sap, which lets you sap one target, kill the other, and have a free crit ambush on the one you sapped)
With this setup, you can easily do 4000 dmg each to two seperate targets in a matter of seconds:
sap one (still in stealth because of imp sap)
ambush, instantly gouge(they're stunned for 5.5sec while you regen to 75 energy), backstab, blind(regen to full energy), backstab, coldblood evis.
(with a good dagger at lvl 60, this can do from 3000-4500+ dmg depending on how many ambush/backstab crits you get [but remember, you have 60%+ chance to crit them])
Then, you can vanish, hit preperation, and do the same exact thing to the guy you sapped earlier.
This is MASSIVE burst dmg, and they have only a fraction of a second in between attacks/stuns to have any chance whatsoever of getting away.
ALSO, since this build includes imp sap, you can actually help with the crowd control in most instances.. ask any non-rogue, and they'll tell you they'd take a rogue with imp sap over a rogue without it any day (for instances with humanoids).. some people even seem to think it's a "must have" skill for rogue, and get upset if you don't have it.
One warning though, this build develop's extremely slowly.. you have to get into the upper 40's to low 50's before you even begin to get most of the "defining talents" of this build. But the finished build at 60 is amazing.
(the only build that compares to it in my eyes is the typical 30ass/8comb/13subt build. the only real difference between them is that my build opts for imp sap, initiative, and preperation instead of seal fate)
So that's my two cents. I hope you enjoyed reading.
Have fun.
Edited, Wed Jan 19 05:03:31 2005 by phor
Scholar
44 posts
Or...you pick a better build for under 40 or under 50, and switch it when u get high lvl. 1g for your first time ain't bad...i am thinking about switching to this when i get a few more lvls :D
Recent Visitors: 395
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (395)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Subtley Rogue
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC