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Hunters and one on one PvPFollow

#1 Dec 05 2004 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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204 posts
I've learned how to use my hunter in PvE pretty well. And recently I think I got a good feel for how they are supposed to function in large PvP groups (use of scouting/tracking skills).

I'm stumped as to how we're supposed to function (if at all) in a one on one PvP situation. Obviously our pets will not keep someone distracted at range for us to bring firepower to bear, so we have to be prepared for a close in fight, and all in all, we don't seem well equipped to handle that.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to try to help improve our chances in a one on one PvP?
#2 Dec 07 2004 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
What i do in pvp is simple. If it is another hunter like myself i slow it with my slow shot. then i try to get enough shots off untill i can finish him off. in this time i send my pet at him and when he sends his pet at me, i fear it off. Rapid fire also works WONDERS in pvp. really only classes you have to worry about in pvp are Pally *shudder* and Rouges (they have massive DPS). all other classes are not to bad. but for the most part just try to keep distance between you and attacker. use slow shot and up close you can melee(although i dont recomend it) or use that 10 second slow and run off to create distace so you can range.
#3 Dec 07 2004 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
double post byaccident sorry.

Edited, Tue Dec 7 11:15:10 2004 by scambono
#4 Dec 07 2004 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
There are generally a lot more options in PvP than most people think. I beat a NE hunter last night that was 2 levels above me and it really wasn't that hard you just have to try and be one step ahead of your opponent. The first thing you should always do is drop a mark of the hunter on them and be aware of what aspect is active at the start of the fight. Use your concussion shot a lot, everytime it becomes active because with talents it has a chance to stun, this can give you a big leap over them in DPS. Keep your dot arrow up and fear the pet if it's another hunter, if it's a rogue then use wing clip and DON'T keep cheetah up unless they're snared, you'll get dazed and dropped in 5 seconds flat. It's worth it to put a few talent points into giving wing clip a boost if you plan on doing a lot of PvP, I have already maxed out my pet health boost too. Keep moving, if you stop you're pretty much dead. It's also not a bad idea to have something in your off-hand to boost spirit and intelligence (you'll be avoiding melee as much as possible anyways and the extra mana/regen will really help).

A general recap on Hunters in PvP:

-Always use Mark of the hunter, this will keep them from invising.
-Be aware of what aspect you're using and switch as needed.
-use fear on other hunter's pets.
-Use pet taunt on Warlock pets.
-Always keep your pet well fed and happy. This might sound like it came out of nowhere but a 25% damage bonus isn't beans.
-Keep your sting up and active on your target at all times.
-Use Wing Clip to get out of sticky situations.
-Use pet taunt on Warlock pets.

I haven't found a decent use for traps in PvP yet, I play on a blue server (Elune) so every PvP situation I've come into has been rather sudden. Any tips on PvP uses of traps would be appreciated (besides the obvious).

#5 Dec 07 2004 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
On neat idea that I haven't tried yet is if you know there is a ruoge (>< sorry I cant spell lol) around set a trap and than stand in front if it so when he comes in to backstab you he gets hit.
#6 Dec 07 2004 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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204 posts
That sounds like some great advice guys. I'll have to rethink how I'm going to use some of my talent points. I can really see the use of wing clip now. Thankfully I have a rogue in my guild, perhaps I can talk him into a few duels to get the hang of things.
#7 Dec 07 2004 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
Traps in duel's are actually quite useful to start fights out, Explosion Trap against pet owners, Frost Trap against most anything else. I always start the round by marking my target real fast and dropping a frost trap. If I keep them around it till they fall for it, I ready Aimed Shot into them and then instantly use Concussion to keep them slowed down while my pet mauls them. The other skill to remember in PVP that is VITAL is Scorpid Sting. Dropping STR/AGI debilitates most classes nicely that are melee, and wrecks Rogue damage rates. (Cause they use both stats for damage)
#8 Dec 08 2004 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
This is a great thread with some good info for fledgling hunters, myself included. I have a few more questions of my own regarding pets in PvP.

-I haven't messed with pet abilities at all. Between leatherworking and questing almost constantly, I don't have time to coral my cat and run around looking for beasts with new abilities, only to have them become obsolete and have to find a higher lvl beast to learn the next rank. I don't see the point in this, I'm sorry. Do the pet abilties (besides growl) really make that much of a difference in PvP and otherwise?

-Are the talent points for boosting traps worth it? I use them all the time but I have a hard time swallowing the usefulness of them versus something like extra chances to hit with my bow or extra damage/hps for my pet.

-As a troll I get an innate bonus to throwing weps. I haven't even tried them yet, is it worth it? Do I get an extra attack with them ranged, or does it replace my bow?

-What's the point of first aid skills? I can regen my health just as fast with food, bandaging isn't practical in combat anyways. Or is it?

-What's the deal with guns? I know where and how to train in them but I don't see the point unless bows become obsolete at some point in my progression and guns are the better path to take as far as DPS and stats go. My bow works great, I would only switch if my DPS hit the wall with bows and could only continue through the use of guns.

Don't take any of these questions the wrong way. I'm loving life as a hunter I just have some logic gaps here and there, someone with a bit more experience could probably fill them in nicely for me.

Thanks!
#9 Dec 09 2004 at 6:17 AM Rating: Decent
Let me add my 2 coppers.

I play on Azgalor, pvp server. 24 Night Elf Hunter.

If you play on a pvp server the best thing for you to do talent-wise is not to put any points into any ranged talents, period. Anyone that isn't a hunter, worth thier salt, is going to run up to you and melee. 0(>.<)0 My response. So what? Hunters _CAN_ melee very very very well. I repeat, hunters can melee very well. As a level 22 hunter, I out dps a 25 rogue, easy. Killing the same mobs, I can take down almost 3 before he took down 1. *pauses dramatically* Melee talents, melee talents, melee talents. Thats to say, Survival talents. If you want to bypass some things like trap talents, nice, pump them into the beast talents then. Pump that pet up cuz he'll be attacking what you are, should be attackin at any rate.

1 vs 1 PvP: Scenario: 27 Troll Shaman, Me = 22 Hunter with a mottled*sp* raptor (Claw 3, Growl 3, Bite 3, Cower 1) I was sitting by the gryphons when I saw him trying to sneak outta Darkshire, a contested zone (on my server, its rare to see Horde there unless they are raiding) I immediately jumped up, had pet attack, and ran after him. He had something like Aspect of the Cheetah on as did I. Great thing about hunters, you can cast on the fly, you can SHOOT specials (ie, snare, dot) on the fly. Snared him, dot'd him, stopped to fire normal till snare wore off. Rinse and repeat. He didn't stop, didn't turn to fight. I'm smackin him with 100's and very very nice crits into 150 - 200's. He kept running and I kept shooting (very nice gun btw) I chased him quite far actually and killed him. Sprinted back to Darkshire, satisfied.

Hunters are very very versitile. In pvp, get used to melee cuz thats what you'll do mostly anyways. You can set traps on the fly as well, don't have to sit there till yer done crouching and if yer running and set a trap, its set :)

My line-up is: Mark, send pet in, snare, dot, fire shots till melee range. Use yer power attack (will be fast cooldown with survival talents), cripple em, and make sure to use your dodge abilities after every dodge. If yer survival talents are buffed, you'll crit a helluva lot, dodge alot, etc and be able to use the skills to the fullest extent.

There is a few skills in the ranged area that affect the power of both ranged AND melee weapons, might want to get those as well, but blah on the rest.

My 2 coppers.
#10 Dec 09 2004 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
Pet abilites make a helluva difference. Get claw and bite. Claw from some bears, and I think I got bite from tallstriders, not certain though. Cower is also good because it helps yer pet keep aggro with Growl. Big difference.

Boosting talent traps. More damage, etc is always good. I kill things higher level because of traps. I usually duo with a rogue friend of mine. I set a trap, have a macro saying the trap is set, she pulls and runs to the trap. We pull camps of 3 and 4, mobs of up to 7 or 8 levels higher and do fine. Xp is awesome, money drops are awesome. I do this solo as well.

Don't know about trolls. I'm alliance on a pvp server so I hate the Horde =/

First aid. Nummies. Don't have to sit down to use it and can use it on others, even in combat.

Guns: In my experience, more dps and just as good fire rate. Haven't used a bow since I could use a gun.

Anything else?
#11 Dec 09 2004 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
Great answers, thanks for the info!
Currently I'm using this bow

I bought it at the auction house, I'm not really high enough to do the ashenvale hunt and there aren't any other quests I know of for my lvl that provide a good ranged upgrade better than this one. I compared some guns to my bow and they're about the same, although I did see a nice gun with a lower lvl requirement than the next bow upgrade. Anyways we'll see on that one.
I don't play on a PvP server, in some ways I wish I did but as soon as I read the PvP boards on worldofwarcraft.com, it made me glad I decided against it. 30 pages of people whining about gankers will do that to you hehe.
I do love to kill PCs though, I've only been in 4 fights so far, one of which I lost horribly because he was 5 lvls above me but I should have seen it coming.
As far as melee weps go, I went with a dagger in my main hand and an axe in my off hand, the dagger is fast with low damage and the axe is the opposite. Before I got dual wield I was using a nice 2hander, am I better off to go with 2 high dps weps with low delay, what I have, or a 2hander? Any input?
Also, can anyone answer my question about throwing weps?

Thanks again guys!

-Edited to add this-
I ususally hit for 50-70 with this bow and crit for 100-130, but I don't have anything to compare that to, any feedback?



Edited, Thu Dec 9 08:48:04 2004 by scambono
#12 Dec 11 2004 at 3:45 AM Rating: Decent
Currently I am using 2 daggers. Was using 2 1h swords, but found some daggers with better damage and lower delay =/ As for my gun, next level (27) I found a bow with alot better damage and 1.0 lower delay. Haven't seen any higher end guns, as of yet, but since I'm a Night Elf and no bonus with guns like dorfs, if I find a bow/xbow thats better damage, I'm going with that. I don't like 2handers, they are too slow for my tastes.

As far as pvp, Azgalor I love. And since you can't talk to the opposing faction, I don't hear much about gankers, just some idiots at times. Someone might say there are Horde in such and such and some idiot will say something to the affect "You can solo em, you don't need our help". That's not what the pvp servers are about, IMHO. /ignore is a good thing :)

I've done some remarkable things with my hunter, love em. I can solo mobs that are almost 10 levels higher, provided there aren't add's. Very nice xp.

Update on my talents. Most of them in survival, as you know, I pumped a few into my fire traps for more damage. Awesome. Increased parry and that stuff, I see a difference in my melee, coupled with out Aspect of the Monkey (8% increase in dodge) is fantastic. Currently going to look for a pet thats easier to feed than with just straight meat.
#13 Dec 13 2004 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
I'm 24 now and I got an even better bow from the auction house. I still haven't found any good hunter quests for my level (I've seen a couple but they are low-mid 30s). I haven't spent a single talent point in Survival so far, but I'm going to start putting them in as soon as I get Aimed Shot. I switched my axe and dagger out for a nasty 2hander, I've been getting crits for 200-220, this works great for me. I've trained my cat in Bite (Rank 2) and Claw (Rank 1) and it seems to be working nicely but he's using focus up a little too fast sometimes. As far as PvP goes I've only been in one fight since my last post, a dwarf pally, it went well until I ran out of mana and he killed my pet so I clipped him and ran like hell.
I think as far as talents go, I'm only going to use survival to get my melee crit and hit chances up. Being on a blue server, I think I'll probably just end up boosting my marksmanship and pet so I can solo more effectively (the older I get the more I'm starting to notice my pet's health going faster and faster). I was talking to a friend of mine who also plays a hunter (orc) and she has almost all of her talent points in Marksmanship, she's 42 and getting crits for ludicrous amounts, I think I'd much rather specialize in ranged combat like that than try to bolster my weak melee or find a middle ground. Most of the time I play with my roomate (orc warrior, same level as me) so I don't do much meleeing unless things get really hairy.

Thanks for your input everyone, I'll keep plugging away and post any other questions I have.
Still no answer on throwing weps? Guess I'll just mess around with it myself then, and post my results.
#14 Dec 17 2004 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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204 posts
I wanted to share a few things I've learned in the past week or so that have helped me tremendously - and also thank my guildmate Kamoko (who I now refer to as Master as per Kung-Fu movies) for helping me nail down what my biggest issues were. I'm sharing this in hopes that some others that were in my position of simple ignorance of how different a PvP and PvE character might find some help.

Lesson #1: Skills/Talents

Generally what instills panic best in a potential victim is not being able to move, or at the very least not being able to move fast enough to get away from you. The skills that should recieve the most attention are ones that fall into this, such as WingClip and Concussive Shot. These two should be high priority in your talents and skills. Scattershot is a must have once it becomes available.

Outside of those skills there seems to be more freedom with what to do. Dodging is good, so are improved critical hits. The one thing to keep in mind, is while your pet is fantastic as a PvE weapon, 9/10 PvP opponents will simply ignore it and head straight for you. Because of that be careful which stats you choose on building up.

Another thing to keep in mind, is a PvP opponent will not stay at range for you unless they're a mage. Always be prepared with some melee skills, and don't heistate to throw some points into that talent section.

Be cautious with trap boosts since unless you are a good ambusher, expect not to have time to get it set up before the battle starts.

Lesson #2: Tactics

Keep moving! Above all else that's the number one rule. The only problem is as hunters we can't shoot on the run except for skills (Concussive, Arcane, Stings). Make a lot of use of your strafe keys (q and e in default layout) and backpedal as little as possible. In some cases it's actually better to run through an opponent and deliver a quick wingclip and then strafe into a good firing position. This slows them down (or if your lucky stops them completely) and forces them to turn around.

I was a bit surprised, but for any of you who did PvP in the mechwarrior games, it's very similar. Lot's of circling.

Another important thing is be on the offensive. If you get jumped your chances for a sucessful battle can drop dramatically. A good way to do this is instead of using your tracking abilities for whatever your hunting, keep it on humanoid all the time. If you see a name approaching that isn't familiar (or is familar and brings back some bad memories) then you can decide to run or fight before they're on top of you. This has saved me a couple times, and also given would be ambushers more than they bargained for. If you don't know either way about the name type "/who personsname" and if the stats come up, they're a friendly, if you get "0 players" or something similar, then be on your guard, or get ready to attack, whichever makes you happy.

Also make use of cover and rough ground. It can be a little hard to track down where regular shots are coming from when you can't see who's doing the firing.

Lesson #3: Equipment (my biggest mistake)

+Stamina is your friend. High additional stamina armor should be a priorty since you can nearly double your hp, giving people more to chew through and you more time to dole out damage. After stamina I suggest looking for +Agility and +Strength. Agility will help dodge a little bit, and critical hits. Strength helps out with attack. +Intelligence can also be good if you rely on a lot of shots and stings during the battle, since it's never any fun being out of Mana.

Lessons #4 and #5: Practice makes perfect, and not everyday is a good one.

Practice is probably the most important part of this. The skills and tactics will need to become almost second nature for you consistently do well in PvP. Try not to back out of fights unless you are completely outgunned. There's no shame in losing if you fight well. And through personal experience most (definately not all) people will usually not camp your corpse. Though they may stick around the area and be happy to hunt you down again if they happen to see you.

Also know that not everyday is going to be a good one, sometimes you will run into a level 45 Tauren/Night Elf who feels he has nothing better to do than stomp your level 30 butt into the ground. You can't win that battle unless the person doesn't know what they're doing, so don't get hung up on it. You might also run into multiple opponents at the same time, and again, don't expect to win unless they're completely inept.

As I said before, this post wasn't for the people who know this stuff, but for those who, like me, thought that generally stratagies would be the same across PvE and PvP. Any comments from our more accomplished PvP champions would be appreciated.

Edited, Fri Dec 17 09:43:20 2004 by Jigensan
#15 Dec 18 2004 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
This might sounds crazy but the one thing I DON'T have trouble beating anymore is a rogue. (well, that and mages).
How to Kick Rogue Butt:
Step One: Place ice trap right behind you.
Step Two: Put your pet on passive mode.
Step Three: Challenge the Rogue and let him backstab.
Step Four: When he hits the trap back away and use Scorpid Sting
(or Serpent Sting if your lower level).
Send your pet on him AFTER using Scorpid Sting.
Step Five: Send your pet in. If he start wacking your pet than
he's a newb and you can arrow away.
Step Five 1/2: If he comes to YOU than get those melee weaps out.
Step Six: Use Wing Clip (if you don't have it than skip step6)
Back up and start arrowing again, refresh your sting
if you need to, and get in Aimed or Arcane Shot.
Step Seven: IF he is still alive than he is a really good dude.
Use Raptor Strike like no tomarrow.
Step Eight: Enjoy his shame of losing to a Hunter as you laugh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trainer: The best victories are those in you earned with hard
work and patience and honesty.
Hunter: Tell that to the Rogue that backstabbed me.
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