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#1 Nov 15 2004 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Hello! Well we might as well get this started. Where are you going to put your talents? What have you already done?

EDIT: This post was started during beta. It is a discussion, and I have learned a lot since. I don't like to mislead poeple, so i have edited it drastically. Feel free to do the same.


Oh yea, and please read the priest talents before posting.

Since this is beta, I've been kinda arbitrarily placing them. I was so sick of getting owned i put all 5 points i had in Silent resolve. Which reduces aggro (on damage spells only) by 20%. (level 14 atm) I duo with a rouge, so that really hasn't helped me much.

EDIT: Completely wortless talent. It only reduces aggro on damage spells. I found that if grouped, If i was concerned about getting aggro, i usually wasn't casting any damage spells because my attention was on healing. As such i wiped these points. Of course since it is aggro related, it is worthless solo.

Improved Power Word: Shield looks great, -15 seconds for 3 talent points. Mental agility and mental strength look great too! Could always use more mana. (btw +int gear is a big help) But I find myself needing more damage so far.

EDIT: I no longer have any shadow talents. I wish I had experimented with them more. I went disc/holy. Build is below.

So, i might wipe all my points and put them somewhere else. I'm looking into building around the shadow spells. Mind flay, shadow weaving and shadow reach look nice. Any experienced priest able to comment on damage dealing later in your careers?

So far my rouge friend can solo about ~3-4 times faster than me, so i think i should focus on my weakness rather than making my party abilities stronger. Priests are so useful in parties as it is. I get people 5-6 levels above me asking me to help. Get good xp too. Sucks when you get a pop though.


What are your thoughts? Open beta and closed beta please reply! d(^.^)b




EDIT: Here is my build. I will edit it as my level changes. Currently a level 40 priest.


Discipline Talents (3 points)

Unbreakable Will - 5/5 points
Improved Power Word: Shield - 3/3 points (finally)

Holy Talents (23 points)

Improved Renew - 5/5 points
Spiritual Healing - 5/5 points
Subtlety - 5/5 points
Improved Flash Heal - 2/2 points
Improved Healing - 5/5 points
Spirit of Redemption - 1/1 point (probably remove this later, fun for now)


Currently building Disc. Order of future placement:

Improved Power Word: Fortitude - 2/2 points
Mental Agility - 5/5 points
Mental Strength - 5/5 points
Improved Inner Fire - 3/3 points
Inner Focus - 1/1 point
Meditation - 4/5 points







Edited, Wed Jan 5 15:37:07 2005 by slgray
#2 Nov 15 2004 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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Also, here is a shadow build I liked a lot:

EDIT: I'm not considering a shadow build anymore, but here you go!

Posted by Demibot
Quote:
12. Re: Priest Builds? | 11/15/2004 9:05:03 AM PST


If I play a priest in retail, I'll probably spec a pretty good balance of shadow/holy with emphasis on shadow. I like to be able to solo when I can't find a decent group, and I don't feel viable doing so without heavy points in shadow. Shadowform seems pretty useless, I’d rather be able to cast renew and shield on myself to mitigate the extra 15% damage.


Discipline Talents (0 points)

# None


Holy Talents (21 points)

# Improved Renew - 5/5 points
# Spiritual Healing - 5/5 points
# Subtlety - 5/5 points
# Improved Healing - 5/5 points
# Spirit of Redemption - 1/1 point

Shadow Talents (30 points)

# Spirit Tap - 5/5 points
# Blackout - 5/5 points
# Improved Shadow Word: Pain - 2/2 points
# Mind Flay - 1/1 point
# Improved Psychic Scream - 2/2 points
# Shadow Reach - 3/3 points
# Improved Fade - 2/2 points
# Silence - 1/1 point
# Shadow Weaving - 5/5 points
# Darkness - 4/5 points


Highlights: High Shadow damage output for solo'ing. Improved SW:P is a given, its 33% more damage on your most mana effective dmg spell, replace blackout with affinity if you choose, I find the 10% on blackout seems to help more than the 10% on affinity. Flay is great for solo'ing and grouping, its very mana efficient and doesn't draw too much agro in groups since it's effectively a dot. Imp Psychic Scream is slightly useless, but silence is golden against mobs that cast self heals. Gotta have that shadow reach for flay rang..

The Holy tree build out is definitely going to help grouping, less threat generated, bigger more effective heals, and spirit of redemption seems really sweet as a last ditch effort to keep your group alive. You should always be the last person to die in an instance, but if you have an orb/second rezzer, this can be golden for your group not wiping.

As far as order, spec shadow exclusively at least to flay, you're going to need it from 20-30 solo'ing. After that just start balancing the two trees out, you really don’t need to be spec'd too deep in holy till lvl 40, but subtlety is crucial once you start casting greater heal, around lvl 44 or so.




Here is the original discussion.

I'm planning on using a shadow build until I find myself doing more group healing. Time can only tell. I'm just so happy i can wipe out my points and rebuild them.





Edited, Thu Nov 18 19:04:12 2004 by slgray
#3 Nov 18 2004 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
Hi Serenity, I have a few questions for you. I have been playing the open beta, so I am new to the game, but not to healing classes. I am glad to see a healer who is able to hold his/her own in a fight, it's high time someone gave us a little offensive ability.

1) You said you would hit the mobs with a high end spell and then place yourself in a bubble. Bubble? I must not have reached a high enough level to understand what this is, and I can't find a spell that looks like that on the list. What is it?

2) Do we ever get an ability to cure poison, disease, silence, etc.? I group with a pally who has that at an early level. It amazes me that he has that and I don't, but at least someone in my group does.

3) You took a point in something that helps your fade. I assume that this only helps if you are a Night Elf? If you play a human preist, what would you take in it's place?

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it a lot

Dharlanna/ Chandra
#4 Nov 18 2004 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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Here's the build I plan on using. This will be for a PVE server.

Quote:
Discipline
20 Points Total

3/5 - Unbreakable Will
2/5 - Silent Resolve
3/3 - Improved Power Word: Shield
2/2 - Improved Power Word: Fortitude
5/5 - Mental Agility
5/5 - Mental Strength

Holy
20 Points Total

5/5 - Improved Renew
5/5 - Spiritual Healing
5/5 - Subtlety
5/5 - Improved Healing

Shadow
11 Points Total

5/5 - Spirit Tap
5/5 - Shadow Focus
1/1 - Mind Flay


Basically, Shadow has enough points just to get Mind Flay (the bread and butter damage spell, from what I've heard.) Spirit Tap also of course highly desired for the limited soloing I'll be doing. (Mostly item farming, I hope).

The Discipline and Holy talents were chosen primarily to improve healing and mana efficiency.

In the limited amount I played in Beta (up to level 23, and as Warrior), it seems that instances and crowded instance-like areas (Hillsbrad Farm) provide the greatest challenge, so that's what this build is geared toward.


Thoughts? Opinions?



Edited, Thu Nov 18 11:46:46 2004 by trickybeck
#5 Nov 18 2004 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I'd have to say that from level 14 -> 18 my play style and attitude has changed drastically. I had almost considered wiping out this post and writing a new one, but I see replies! Thanks for your input you two.

I am not considering a shadow build anymore. I find that even early on better Holy/Discipline spells are very helpful. Even while soloing. I am not sure where, what or when a shadow priest would fit into a party.

Dharlanna:
Well, I wouldn't exactly call us a tank, but we can deal some good damage and heal ourselves, both at the cost of a good chunk of mana. Means we can solo but it's slow. We are still quite fragile. More times than I'd like to admit i'm watching my party's health bars and all of a sudden i am dead. (Not looking at my own) Tougher mobs kill us in 5-7 hits.

1) The "bubble" is just a nickname for Power word: Shield. From the levels 6-12 it seems completely overpowering. I was relying on it way too much. It's use for me has changed for when i need to buy myself a few extra seconds so i can get a bigger heal off. I also like to use it before someone pulls. Comes in handy on yourself if you get aggro. Getting hit makes your casting time for a spell ~2-3 times longer.

2) Poison: I don't see one
Disease: Yes it's a level 14 spell.
Silence: We get dispel magic at level 18.
EDIT: Silence is a shadow talent spell.

Paladins have some of the best buffs in the game. I dabbled a bit with one. Personally i didn't like the role, it seemed less paladin like to be a buff/debuff/-na player. Very, very useful in parties though.

3. Erm, I actually haven't put any points in improved fade. This isn't my talent list, just a proposed path. Keep in mind I am (was, /cry) level 18, and this is not really a guide but a discussion.

Fade is a level 8 Shadowspell. It is not to be confused with shadowmeld. Shadowmeld is relatively useless unless you are one of the classes that can move with it active. Fade is actually a great tool once you understand what it does. It is not an invisible spell! It is a tool for reducing aggro. One of the most useful spells in my opinion. However, if i wanted it "improved" i'd want the strength imporved, not the duration.




Hello trickybeck! Always a pleasure to read your posts.

I am leaning towards a similar build now. I love almost all of talents you listed. As I am not a level 60, i can not give much info on the higher level skills.

I will say that Silent Resolve was a complete waste for me. It reduces aggro generated by damage spells. Personally, i have yet to be in a situation where I would be casting damage spells when I wouldn't survive tanking the fight. (Damage spells on weaker mobs, heals only on tough mobs) The only thing i could imagine is if you were in a party with multiple healers, then you could fight hard stuff and still toss out damage spells. Hardly worth a talent point, in my opinion.

Look at the alternative, Unbreakable will. First off i thought it was pretty useless. Now i get stunned all the time. It's nuts, stunning interrupts your spells. Around level 16 a lot of the things i fought had stunning attacks. And trust me, that is no fun to get a heal interrupted.

Good list otherwise! I really like it.





I will leave with another thought. Since we are all low levels (1) and we will most likely put our points in 1 by 1, what are you going to use first?

My opinion, Renew!

Renew is powerful enough to be a Priest's primary source of healing. (so far anyways) I'd say that warrants my first 5 skill points. Probably the best choice for a grouped priest.

The other option? Spirit tap!

In the beta this was not functioning correctly. It didn't go off all the time. Some even reported about 20% spirit tap rate, while the skill says 100% of every kill. I didn't get enough time to test it very much, but it did not work very often for me.

It will most likely be fixed in retail. It is quite a useful ability, as a kill usually leads to full mana for next fight. Pretty much vital for solo.

EDIT: Spirit tap and the 5 second rule. In case you didn't know, you do not regen mana for 5 seconds after you cast a spell. Essentially, that pretty much makes it useful only for soloing. In a party you are not likely to kill, much less with your staff or wand. If i have to solo, I can just use drinks. I removed it entirely. If i was going back into shadow, i would chose blackout over spirit tap.

Fun Thread! I'm really loving this class.











Edited, Wed Dec 22 22:51:52 2004 by slgray

Edited, Wed Dec 22 22:54:44 2004 by slgray
#6 Nov 18 2004 at 6:58 PM Rating: Good
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I found that calulator you used, here is the link.


My proposed build:

Discipline Talents (20 points)
Unbreakable Will - 5/5 points
Improved Power Word: Shield - 3/3 points
Improved Power Word: Fortitude - 2/2 points
Mental Agility - 5/5 points
Mental Strength - 5/5 points

Holy Talents (20 points)
Improved Renew - 5/5 points
Spiritual Healing - 5/5 points
Subtlety - 5/5 points
Improved Healing - 5/5 points

Shadow Talents (11 points)
Spirit Tap - 5/5 points
Improved Shadow Word: Pain - 2/2 points
Shadow Focus - 3/5 points
Mind Flay - 1/1 point



Edited, Thu Nov 18 18:59:12 2004 by slgray
#7 Nov 18 2004 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
I can't remember how the trees looked (in other words which talents required what number of points in which lower level talents before you could have them. Confused? I am...)

=) Anyway, the question is, are you certain that you can get the talents you want by spending the points as you have set them up? Personally I hate to spend 11 points in Shadow just to get Mind Flay. The only soloing I will most likely be doing on this character is for farming purposes. (Gotta get those tailoring items...)

I like the idea of less chance to get stunned. I was having trouble with it at 13. I can only imagine later levels how hard it will be.

Do you really feel that the points in renew help that much? I like the HOT and used it a lot, but with characters that had a lot of HP I most times had to back it up with an n extra heal.

What does it mean when the Power Word: Shield talent says that it reduces the Weakened Soul effect? I used mine, but never noticed any such effect. Of course, the group I play with moves fast and hard and it's all I can do to keep them healed usually.

What about combat resurrection? That would be good in my group, especially if there is no sickness or experience loss. I don't know if the casting time is as long as a normal rez, if so then it might be a futile attempt anyway.

Thoughts?

Thanks again for your most welcome advice.

Dharlanna/Chandra


#8 Nov 19 2004 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What does it mean when the Power Word: Shield talent says that it reduces the Weakened Soul effect? I used mine, but never noticed any such effect. Of course, the group I play with moves fast and hard and it's all I can do to keep them healed usually.

Power Word: Shield, in addition to putting up the damage shield, also gives the target a "weakened soul" effect that lasts for 30 seconds. It doesn't actually weaken them, it just prevents you from re-casting Shield on them during that time.

This prevents people from casting Shield over and over again, and thus never taking damage.

Reducing the time of the weakened soul lets you cast Shield on people more frequently. A very nice ability in my opinion.

#9 Nov 20 2004 at 10:12 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks guys, this really helps a lot. I can't wait to play the game in retail. Hope to see you there!
#10 Nov 21 2004 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
I was wondering... do u think that a preist will be able to hold a group 2gether goin all dmg and using vampiric embrace?
#11 Nov 22 2004 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
AcidLeak - That would depend on whether or not 20% of your output with shadow spells could heal your groupmates. Under perfect conditions you could do 20% of your the mobs hp in healing, however, the reality is that you will have groupmates doing the majority of the damage. For that reason, I'd say that no, vampiric brace alone is probably not enough to sustain your group in demanding situations.

In regards to priest builds, this is what I am currently going with. My first 10 points would be invested in the improved power words to help compensate for my lack of healing improvements (heres hoping it works!). After the first 10, i'd max out the shadow line, and then return to discipline for focused casting - finishing things off with improved mind blast.

I am building this priest with PvP in mind. I wholly intend to play the healbot role almost always when I group for PvE, but I am hoping to play more as a high dps caster in pvp situations. It will be interesting to see how I fare without any healing talents outside of embrace and shield.

Feel free to offer some critiques.

Shadow Mastery
Blackout Rank 5
Improved Shadow Word: Pain Rank 2
Shadow Focus Rank 5
Improved Psychic Scream Rank 2
Improved Mind Blast Rank 5
Mind Flay Rank 1
Improved Fade Rank 2
Shadow Reach Rank 3
Silence Rank 1
Shadow Weaving Rank 5
Vampiric Embrace Rank 1
Darkness Rank 5
Shadowform Rank 1
Shadow Total: 38
Discipline Mastery
Unbreakable Will Rank 5
Martyrdom Rank 2
Improved Power Word: Shield Rank 3
Improved Power Word: Fortitiude Rank 2
Focused Casting Rank 1
Discipline Total: 13

Edited, Tue Nov 23 00:02:06 2004 by Nascaris

Edited, Tue Nov 23 00:08:21 2004 by Nascaris

Edited, Tue Nov 23 01:30:38 2004 by Nascaris
#12 Nov 24 2004 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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Acidleak - like Nascaris said, I don't think it's enough. Vampric embrace sounds like a nice secondary spell. Looks like a backup healer would get the most use out of it. Soloing or Duoing comes to mind also.

Nascaris - That looks fun! Hope it works out. I'm not brave enough to try it, but i'd sure like to hear how it does.


Also, sorry for the lack of replies. The Class forums recently made the list of URLs that are "inappropriate" for business.


Hopefully some CB priests will chime in here soon enough anyways.
#13 Nov 27 2004 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Here is what I'm planning for focusing on being a healer. I will admitedly be party reliant for exp, but I will also make parties alot better because of that. For PVP I'll be gimpy though since I'll be the first one to be killed on my side most likely ; ;
Note that I was not in a beta and I'm only lvl 8 atm (just started on the 26th ^^), so this is just what I plan from reading the abilities.

Shadow Mastery
Spirit Tap: Rank 5

Discipline Mastery
Unbreakable Will: Rank 5
Improved Power Word: Fortitiude Rank 2

Holy Mastery
Improved Renew: Rank 5
Spiritual Healing: Rank 5
Subtlety: Rank 5
Improved Ressurection: Rank 2
Improved Healing: Rank 5
Improved Prayer of Healing: Rank 2
Combat Resurrection: Rank 1

Thats 37 points, so alot of points left (14). As you can see my interest is in healing effectiveness and mana conservation mainly to cut down downtime. Subtlety keeps hate off me and combat ressurection lets me reduce downtime some more.
In order, I'd grab Spirit Tap first, then the Holy line up to rank 5 Improved Ressurection, grab the Fortitude buff, finish off Holy and finally Unbreakable Will (possibly get that sooner if I think it will help me, I don't know how often it will come in handy).

With the left over points I'd probably first go:
Spirit of Redemption: Rank 1
Holy Specialization: Rank 2
Master Healer: Rank 5
Holy Nova: Rank 1
All about that final AoE ^_^ great for farming, really thats all, by the time I'd get this I could probably handle mass farming a few things for crafting items. Still leaves you with another 5 points left so...
Holy Specilization: Rank 3-5
Improved Power Word: Shield Rank 2
For some slightly better healing power and slightly better buffs. After the first section though the rest isn't all that important to me.

PS: Nascaris, I'd skip Improved Fade and get Mental Agility 2 or Improved Renew 2 to make that a PVP build. Neither of those is really a great ability, but in PVP the negative hate from Fade is worthless.

Edited, Sat Nov 27 05:27:14 2004 by Dju
#14 Nov 27 2004 at 6:31 AM Rating: Decent
Well first off, fade is so crucial to my playstyle that you couldnt even begin to understand how much I use it unless you saw me play.

That being said, from my experience improved pw: shield is a must have. However, seeing as how you are focusing your talents to improve your ability to optimize healing, leaving it out may be acceptable, although it definately helps to have it.

Other talents I might reconsider: Spirit tap I have my reservations about, but i'd love to hear how its working out for you. I had it for alittle while before I respecced in open beta - I felt that it commanded too mnuch attention, and that I could manage better without it.

Other than that your talents look good. Keep me posted about how you think they help you, as I will not be taking any holy talents (i'll have no experiential basis for commenting on them).

Cheers,
Roach - Bloodhoof Priest.

Edited, Sat Nov 27 06:32:50 2004 by Nascaris
#15 Nov 27 2004 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
20 posts
I could see Fade being useful, was just saying its wouldn't be for a PVP build. Priesty guy X builds hate against Warrior, Warrior bashes Preisty guy X, Preisty guy X gets rid of all hate, Warrior still bashes Priesty guy X T.T
#16 Nov 27 2004 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
Ah yes of course. Fade has no value in pvp, but the point I was trying to communicate was that despite my PvP build, improved fade is still a must have for me.
#17 Nov 28 2004 at 2:18 PM Rating: Default
Hi guys. I am new to this but wanted to think about my build from early on. Please post your comments.

I plan to play a healing priest in PVE, I don't care about PVP, and I want to be good for group and raid healing. I'd still like to be able to solo although I don't care too much if it is slow.

From what I can tell at level 11, the key to being a healer is: staying alive (i.e. reducing threat), and having enough mana.

From that came the following goals:
- Get Spiritual Healing for 10% lower mana cost on heals
- Get Subtlety to help stay alive
- Get Improved Fade to help stay alive
- Get Improved Power Word: Shield
- Get Mental Strength for more mana
- And maybe: get Mind Flay since people have posted that it is useful.

Actually that works out to 52 points, so either have to lose Mind Flay or lose one rank of either Subtlety or Mental Strength.

Here are the details:

HOLY
- Improved Renew 5/5
- Spiritual Healing 5/5
- Subtlety 5/5
(15 points)

SHADOW
- Spirit Tap 5/5
- Improved Shadow Word: Pain 2/2
- Shadow Affinity 5/5
- Shadow Focus 2/5
- Mind Flay 1/1
- Improved Fade 2/2
(17 points)

DISCIPLINE
- Unbreakable Will 5/5
- Improved Power Word: Shield 3/3
- Improved Power Word: Fortitude 2/2
- Mental Agility 5/5
- Mental Strength 4/5 (grrr)
(19 points)

Comment on shadow allocation: To get Improved Fade you need 9 points in Shadow (in addition to 5 points in Spirit Tap and 1 in Mind Flay). These can be split across a bunch of talents: Blackout, Shadow Affinity, Shadow Focus, Improved Power Word: Pain, Improved Psychic Scream, Improved Mind Blast. Not sure if my choices are best.

Comment on discipline allocation: The 2 points in Improved Power Word: Fortitude could instead be allocated to: Silent Resolve, Wand Specialization, or Martyrdom. Otherwise there is no flexibility.

All feedback welcome.

Sophisse <Noctis> on Whisperwind.

Edited, Sun Nov 28 14:19:41 2004 by Glencannon
#18 Nov 30 2004 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm doing:

Shadow Mastery
====================
Spirit Tap Rank 5
Improved Shadow Word: Pain Rank 2
Shadow Focus Rank 5
Improved Mind Blast Rank 2
Mind Flay Rank 1
Improved Fade Rank 2
====================
Shadow Total: 17

Discipline Mastery
====================
Unbreakable Will Rank 5
Improved Power Word: Shield Rank 3
Improved Power Word: Fortitiude Rank 2
Mental Agility Rank 5
Mental Strength Rank 5
Inner Focus Rank 1
====================
Discipline Total: 21

Holy Mastery
====================
Improved Renew Rank 5
Spiritual Healing Rank 5
Subtlety Rank 3
====================
Holy Total: 13

Some shadow for soloing, fade for grouping; some holy for grouping; discipline for grouping and soloing.

For Glencannon, I recommend you get Inner Focus in Discipline. A free spell every 5 minutes with a +25% chance to crit is worth the 2 points from Subtlety.
#19 Nov 30 2004 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
See below.

Edited, Tue Dec 14 09:27:47 2004 by Spooktacular
#20 Dec 01 2004 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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This is based on PvE.

Basic mixed build:

Discipline: (20)
5 Unbreakable Will
3 Improved Shield
2 Improved Fort
2 Martyrdom
1 Focused Casting
2 Mental Agility
5 Mental Strength

Holy: (20)
5 Improved Renew
5 Spiritual Healing
5 Subtlety
5 Improved Healing

Shadow: (11)
5 Spirit Tap
3 Blackout
2 Improved Pain
1 Mind Flay


VARIANTS...

1. balanced, solo focus (20-10-21)
Drop: Subtlety, Improved Healing
Add: rest of Blackout, Improved Scream, Improved Fade, Shadow Reach, Silence

2. strong solo focus (20-0-31)
Drop: all holy
Add: all shadow except affinity, focus, improved MB, VE and shadowform

3. strong healing focus (20-31-0)
Drop: all shadow
Add: Improved Flash, Improved Prayer, Spirit of Redemption, Master Healer, Holy Nova

4. strong support (32-19-0)
Drop: all shadow, 1 improved healing
Add: rest of Mental Agility, Improved Burn, Meditation, Inner Focus, Divine Spirit



There are other, more drastic, variants too. Total favor of any one tree is possible (not recommended for discipline.) It's also quite feasible to tweak any of these by a point here or there to get some desired effect. I don't particularly advocate Vampiric Embrace, but maybe you want it. Maybe you'd prefer Inner Focus instead of Holy Nova.

The initially listed build is what I find to be a respectable balance in the long run. Anyone that levels with shadow talents will find it very weird to play without Mind Flay. The other 40 points are a good balance of the two trees. I don't think you get THAT much more out of either by investing more points, although some people swear by meditation, focused casting, holy nova, master healer, etc.
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#21 Dec 01 2004 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You can almost chain cast shield on yourself. The way I solo is with SW:Pain and melee.


Depending on your tactics, I don't highly recommend "chain-casting" shield. It's more mana efficient to use any real heal spell. Renew is also insta-cast and the talent for that is at tier 1 of holy. Shield is for "oh ****", for channeling spells, and for shadowform.
This is not to say I'm second-guessing the shield talent, only the use of shield.

Quote:
I was killing monsters who yielded ~95 exp a kill in almost 8 seconds flat with no dowtime at all.


8 seconds? with melee? Bull.

Quote:
I usually end a fight with a higher level monster (although it takes a bit of time so it's not really worth it unless for loot/quest purposes) at full hp and near full mana or I can solo 3 monsters 1 or 2 under me with similar results just less mana


Finishing full mana on a higher level monster would take a LOT of time, assuming you even had the regen to keep up with its damage. I call bull again. Either that or you're wasting more time than its worth.

Quote:
I intend to spend til I get to holy nova. For those who haven't read about this ability it is an INSTANT CAST AE AGGRO REDUCER + DAMAGE. And it's not like you have to "waste" talents to get there (as some may argue you do for something like flay myself included)


1) Holy Nova isn't *that* great. It's like a second fade, only far less effective, and only against creatures that are in melee range. You can cast fade before a creature aggros to prevent that.
2) The damage on Holy Nova isn't an incredible amount, and after the effect wears off, that damage = aggro. You gonna cast it some more and make the problem worse?
3) It's not a waste of points to get Spirit Tap and Improved Pain. That's 7 of your 10 prereq points to Mind Flay. It is, however, imho a waste to put 31 points into holy.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who was about healing, only healing, and nothing but healing when I played Everquest. I used that mentality in WoW for a while, but it doesn't work for me any more here. (Maybe that's why I hate instance runs.)

Quote:
If you get either of the two starting holy abilities (don't discount the holy crit, this effects your heals aside from just smite


That ability is predominantly for heals. Most priests don't even use smite that often. Considering it's a 5% chance to double the value of a heal though, that's an overall increase of 2.5% healing, though, and that increase is often largely wasted if your target gets capped by the heal.

Quote:
and then augment it even further with an aggro reducer aside from fade (which doesn't seem all too powerful unless one in your group is borderline with you for aggro

(and more comments later about how awful fade is)

You need to use Fade more often and learn how it works. I would sooner have Improved Fade (potentially faded 2/3 of the time) than Holy Nova, but in an argument with a strongly pro-healing priest, its moot to suggest a talent that far into shadow.

Fade not only reduces your aggro for 10 seconds, but it reduces the aggro you generate during that time. Because it only returns to you the aggro you lost at the onset, when it wears off, you don't regain the lost aggro from the spells cast during. Additionally, I rarely have huge issues with heal aggro in a respectable group. Typically just a loose add that I can fade back to the puller.


I will grant you, some people absolutely love Holy Nova. I'm just not one of them.
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#22 Dec 02 2004 at 4:33 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Fade not only reduces your aggro for 10 seconds, but it reduces the aggro you generate during that time. Because it only returns to you the aggro you lost at the onset, when it wears off, you don't regain the lost aggro from the spells cast during. Additionally, I rarely have huge issues with heal aggro in a respectable group. Typically just a loose add that I can fade back to the puller.

I didn't know this.

So if you're going to whip out a big-*** spell, it's good to hit fade first? Then after fade wears off, you no longer have the threat of that big-*** spell?

#23 Dec 02 2004 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
I've cast fade without on border line aggro (the mob was running between me and a taunting pet) then cast heal on the pet and have it aggro me hard. As far as losing all threat generated during fade when it wears off wouldn't you rather your fade to be shorter then? If you aggro during fade I'm not sure you'd have that long to wait for it to wear off. I've never heard of that or witnessed it because I've never had aggro at end of fade. Also you claim I don't know how to use fade but you say "Typically just a loose add that I can fade back to the puller." If you're using it that way I guess you don't either because I said that's how I use it and if your fights are lasting long enough to cast fade twice then your group needs more DPS. That fade talent is pretty worthless. BTW in case you hadn't noticed while you were bashing Holy Nova on top of the aggro reducing factor it's the only AE priests have available to them. AEs are invaluable in PVP. Maybe you play on a blue server but on PvP an AE is almost mandatory for PVP. AEs are also useful in certain PvE situations, some dungeons swarm you with low hp or even single hit mobs than can do high dps or just cause a nuissance and AEs help to deal with those. Granted you'll probably have a mage w/ blizzard or maybe a warlock w/ RoF but it doesn't hurt to have your own. Plus it's only one talent point at the end of a very good tree if you're a healing priest. I don't understand why people pick priest to go shadow and get maximum DPS, if you wanted DPS you should've been a rogue or a mage.


In regards to my soloing being bull at the time of the post it was slightly eggagerated unintentionally. I was killing things that gave me 90 exp with one shield and still having 6-9 seconds remaining on my weakened soul and that's with -15 timer but after thinking about it I cast shield 2-3 seconds before a fight so it averages to about 10 seconds. Occasionally I'd get one that took longer, shortly after the weakened soul wore off so 17-18 seconds. And I never said I only meleed, I said I meleed + DoT. Sometimes on rare occasion I'd pull with a smite which would knock maybe a second off of the fight if it critted but with the casting time it's only slightly better DPS than melee.

As for the time it takes to kill the higher level mobs at full mana it wasn't when I was lower twenties, it is now. The only I reason I do it, if I do it, is for loot purposesbut I manly stick to soloing things about equal to my level.

When you say it's more mana efficient to heal yourself it isn't. How can you be more mana efficient than having full/near full mana at the end of the fight and still full HP? You can make it through a fight and a half with two shields, with proper spirit you regenerate that mana back before you have to recast it. Shield and renew are very close in mana, if not identical (I don't know the exact mana costs off hand I just know both seem to repop at the same time when I am oom) The difference is with renew if you cast it too soon you're wasting it when you cap out and too late it doesn't heal you fast enough. If I had the 5 points in renew it would roughly heal to about 1-2 hits per tic but most mobs get 2-3 hits in between tics. I don't know if you just have some ungodly amount of armor but that has me losing hp in the fight. With shield disc I can atleast get it up and cast an uninteruppted flash heal in a pinch if I get adds while soloing. If you don't have the disc that extra 15 seconds is a long time. That doesn't really matter to mana efficiency though I'll admit, but again when you solo using renew w/o shield chances are you either have missing HP at the end of the fight, have wasted renew tics at full hp, or have had to cast some other form of heal or a shield on yourself at some point during the fight to avoid dying. The latter two mean you're probably less efficient than shielding and the first one means you have atleast some potential downtime (or an additional renew) to heal for next fight. I've tried both ways and shield seems a lot easier and faster to solo with. Shield also is very effective in group. You can almost think of it as an instant cast heal for however many HPs are absorbed. It's even better than just a heal though because if the target is caster their spells become uniterrupted as well. Shielding often gives you enough time to cast your big heal on a target, and if not that long atleast a flash heal or two.
#25 Dec 03 2004 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
I am sure this will somehow get me flamed or what you will but I think most of you have missed the point to playing the MAIN healer class...to...well...heal?! Can you believe it ;p

I can understand what you guys want and that is fine but if you are wanting to solo than why play a class thats entire reason for being built was to heal...team mates. If you wish to have healing/buffing or even a rez ability and tank or solo, make a paladin. If you want to go heavy on the magical dmg side than why not make a mage?

Maybe I am the one confused, I do not mean to insult anyone but it seems they gave the priest a dmg line of magic simply for keeping your **** safe in a bad situation. I am going to make a priest so I can be there for my friends why they need me and do my job, heal.

For solo I am making a hunter

For PvP a Paladin

For Damage a Rogue or a Mage
#26 Dec 03 2004 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
Tracer Bullet
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12,636 posts
Quote:
I am sure this will somehow get me flamed or what you will but I think most of you have missed the point to playing the MAIN healer class...to...well...heal?! Can you believe it ;p

Who says Priest's only job is to heal? You?

Clearly Blizzard sees it different. I believe they purposely gave each class a wide range of abilities so they don't get pigeonholed into single-function jobs.

Warrior in WoW isn't merely a low-damage tank that just spams taunt all day.

Similarly, Priest doesn't just target the Warrior and press "Heal" over and over and over again.

The wider the range of available spells, abilities, and talents, the more interesting and complex the game becomes.

Smiley: twocents

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