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Best Class for Mage?Follow

#1 Oct 07 2004 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
Friend of mine won in the stress test to get to closed beta and he is an undead mage. I was thinking of doing the same but after looking at the stats of the chars so far I see that Gnome Beats out UNdead in INT, Mana, Aromr, and STA. While the Undead takes in PWR, STR, AGL, Spirit and Health.

So based on these stats and how the mage class plays (what attributes are are most desired for Mage) What would be the best choice race wise?
#2 Oct 09 2004 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
I've heard many say gnomes are probably the best, largely for pvp purposes. Even their size helps, making them harder to click(so I hear).

However, it is my belief that the stats aren't going to make a huge difference in the long run.

Also, I think spirit is used for regenerating mana(rate of regeneration).

Personally, I'm going human because they are my favorite race in all games, even if they aren't very good :P(and yeah,I'm going mage).

Another thing, apparantly there are race abilities that give the undead a big advantage, such as breathing underwater. And if your friend won as undead, I would totally say choose undead if you want, because they seem to be great mages.

But again, let me stress, I don't think the stats will be what determines who wins and who loses. The only thing I think would help would be a faster casting speed in pvp, which would be influenced by agility IF it does in fact change between races. If that be the case, then undead and trolls would be slightly better at pvp in this aspect.

And more about the gnome...I noticed it has 15 strength, by far the lowest, though I'm not sure what this would change for a mage.

And just to be clear, these are all, for the most part, theories. I haven't played this game before, I'm just using logic. I hope this helps :)

peace
#3REDACTED, Posted: Oct 20 2004 at 5:02 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, to be honest, there are certain things in this game that don't do anything.
#4 Oct 27 2004 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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1,073 posts
Let's get one thing straight: The differences between the race's starting stats are virtually ZERO. Sure, they matter at level one, but by level ten they're almost gone, and by level 20 you won't notice at all. After a few levels, the majority of your stats come just from you leveling up and the values on your equipment. So don't even worry about the starting stats; they mean nothing whatsoever once you hit level ten. Which took me four hours in stress test.

Second: stats.
Strength: adds to Attack Power, increases amount of damage blocked when using shields.
Agility: adds to armor, increases chance to dodge, increases chance to critical hit with weapons.
Stamina: increases hit points.
Intellect: increases mana pool, increases chance to get a critical effect with spells.
Spirit: increases mana/health regeneration.

As you can see, a mage would benefit the most from Intellect and Spirit.
#5 Oct 28 2004 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
Well, to be honest, there are certain things in this game that don't do anything.

Take for instance, stats. They don't do anything at all. High stats are no better than low stats.

Another example of something that doesn't do anything in this game would be Level. A LV15 Mage OWNS A LV60 Mage. This is for two reasons. One, as I have mentioned, stats don't do anything. Two, as I will explain to you now, spells don't do anything.

Spells are just a waste. A rank 1 spell is JUST as powerful as a rank 5 spell.

As you can see, I post on forums of which I know nothing about, and my ideas don't make sense. nicelife Romulux.



You had no reason to bash me. The only thing you said that was even related to my post was about stats, and they ARE pretty much worthless. Ok, maybe worthless wasn't the right word, but I'm saying that an even level character won't win simply due to the fact that they have slightly higher strength or intelligence, that luck and skill will be more important. Maybe the problem was that you didn't know what I was talking about when I said "stats" (strength, agitility, stamina, intelligence, and spirit). Also, this was the first day I had gotten a forum name here. I had just learned about WoW. ALSO, I said they were theories, not "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong." I SAID that I was guessing. My theories were logical, and based off many other MMORPG experiences. I was trying to give help, my opinion, and admitted it could have been wrong. No matter how inaccurate my theories may have been, there was no content in my post that could warrant such an offensive flame. I see that this is one of those places where the newcomers are treated like garbage. Point taken. I'll go somewhere else.
#6 Nov 01 2004 at 9:27 PM Rating: Default
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1,073 posts
Romulux, the reason he was so angry is because all (or almost all) of the information is available elsewhere. I have to agree with him about one thing: you posted an answer to a question without possessing any real knowledge, not even knowledge that can be gleaned from the WoW basics site. I don't understand why you did that. I mean, sure, you said you were guessing, but if you had no idea why did you guess? I don't condone his behavior, but your behavior was bizarre, also.
#7 Nov 01 2004 at 10:10 PM Rating: Default
I guessed because it was logical. And you know what? I was right. Race is not the deciding factor on who wins a fight, for the most part. What's the difference between races? Stats. Clearly stats won't win the fight for you. The only thing I can think of is maybe racial attributes, like undead breathing underwater.

And the information is available elsewhere? What are the Mage forums for then? Hmmm, guess they should be removed. I'll think twice before going to the Mage forums for talking about Mages.

Now tell me, what about my post was bizarre? I need to know...for future posts...

PS: chahdresh, observe
Quote:
Let's get one thing straight: The differences between the race's starting stats are virtually ZERO.

so you, essentially, agreed with me, then decided to tell me that I posted without any knowledge. Apyllos wanted to hear the best race for a mage. I pointed out that there is rarely a "best" race.
#8 Nov 02 2004 at 2:05 AM Rating: Default
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1,073 posts
We're talking past one another. You are right that the statistical difference between races doesn't matter a heck of a lot, definitely not enough to win a fight for you. (They do matter across levels, but never mind.) Racial attributes will matter to a certain extent, but until the next patch comes out we won't know how much. You are right about that; I offer no opposition.

However, what I found bizzarre was the way you spoke of the stats. You thought that agility affected casting speed and wasn't sure if mages needed strength or not. The information on stats and what stats do is available on the official World of Warcraft site, worldofwarcraft.com, in the basics section. The site is down right now or I'd link you directly, but it wasn't when this conversation started. That's all.

That's the sort of information I was talking about, the sort of thing you shouldn't just guess about. It's there for all to see.

As I said, I don't condone the other poster's behavior. It puzzled me that you would guess about what statistics do when the information is available. No need to get riled up. I am a civil man, and your conclusion is correct. Your methodology needs a little work, nothing more.
#9 Nov 03 2004 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
what he said...


=]
#10 Nov 10 2004 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
I think what ChahDresh meant is that you talked of the game as if you knew much about it, when in fact you hadn't even played it.
#11 Nov 12 2004 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
Alright so Romulux was right about stat differences (starting stats are different but later become unnoticeable.. like most games). So why exsactly are there 8 different post after Romulux?
I do realize that this is the 9th post after it, but still I had to say something and it's directed toward that Mattjew kid: Summoners suck... around 60+ they become useful if you have Fenrir (and that's a hard Avatar to get for you non-FFXIers)

Also... if Romulux didn't state he never played the game then there would be no discussion.. as there shouldn't be.
In fact I didn't post this.. crap

Jesus christ... I mean Romulux answered the question by reading other sections... which is helpful "SHAME ON YOU ROMULUX!"

I'd also like to mock ChahDresh "Jesus christ I play Open Beta I r leet"

So any way.. I'd like to meet both Matt and ChahDresh if either of them would spring for the plane ticket... I'll get the cab we can meet for some "RL PvP"

Edited, Fri Nov 12 06:40:00 2004 by Scribes
#12 Nov 21 2004 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
Previously, undead mages were a favorite because they could not be polymorphed, and though they were vulnerable to paladins/priests , so were all mages.
With the new undead change, gnomes are probably the favorite for mages, with their INT boost. The root breaking ability is useless because blink does that too, but INT is everything for a mage in this release. SPIRIT does very little now, because you can only regen if you haven't cast a spell in 5-10 seconds, and a mage who hasn't cast a spell in 5-10 seconds and is still fighting something is usually a dead mage, or a mage who's addicted to polymorph.

Honestly, i'm going to play human because their starting area i find to be the easiest. Perception is also nice against rogues.

Overall, however, race does not matter. It's just another way to "get into" your character, and choosing a race because it's the "most powerful" is going to do you so little good that it's more likely you'd win a pvp battle because a speck of dust jammed the opponents keys than that it actually matters.

That being said, i've heard from a couple level 60/57 mages that the mage class has been nerfed to unplayability in the last patch.
#13 Nov 22 2004 at 3:58 PM Rating: Default
Ok I have played open beta now. I played a human mage, and I don't regret anything I said before playing it, because it still stands.

I picked human because they look cooler than gnomes in my opinion (and there are already too many gnome mages). Also, since rogues are one of the few classes I fear, perception may turn out to be useful.

The only differences between races that you will notice will be the racial attributes and appearance.
#14 Nov 22 2004 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
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79 posts
I have played two characters in the open beta to lvl 15+, so i dont know everything, but I do have an idea of what is going on. Basically what was stated previously has some truth, the beginning stats for each character, become less important then gear every level past the first one. Basically to spell it out, the overall bonuses from equipment begins to exceed the 3-5 pt difference in starting stats after about level 10-12. So by the higher levels equipment is going to be the main determinate in how much mana/hp your character has.

The only thing that I will say is that the races in WOW do have special characteristics that make them different in more ways then just attributes. For example gnomes get a 5% bonus to there intellegence score which directly affects their mana pool. Undead have a self cast spell that makes them immune to fear for period of time. You can find exactly what each race has on the wow site. In this sense, the races will have some impact on how successful a character will be.

I will say that most of the racial abilities seem to have the most use in pvp situations, but you will have to look at which ones have the most overall benefit based on your playstyle.

Overall, I say play the race that you enjoy the most.
#15 Nov 26 2004 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
WoW isn't a game you should be playing for stats. I wanted a troll mage, so I made a troll mage, lowest possible key stats of all the races for mage be damned.

Something that should be noted is that this game is not FFXI. Some races can be some classes, where others can't. In FFXI, even though you can be a galka black mage, or a tarutaru paladin, you're going to be vastly inferior to a race with better stats for the class.

In WoW, and EQ for that matter, race doesn't matter as much. There's no point in allowing a race to become a certain class if they're not going to do well in it.

Undead can be mages, therefor, they will be good as mages.
#16 Nov 26 2004 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
Play whatever race you want to play as a mage. You shouldn't worry whats the best stat for this, or for PVP, you should take what you like, and -make- it good. Do your best, but bottom line you've got to enjoy the character to get it a long way anyway.
#17 Nov 29 2004 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
But see you say play whatever you want to have fun.... well I get the most fun from a game by being effective and choosing wisely.

Yes granted items make up for stats in the game (played till lvl 25 in beta now and now also a lvl 24 mage... still undead in both)

So my question is an extremely valid question and also has some merit as well, please do not dismiss this as a question that makes not sense.
#18 Nov 29 2004 at 5:59 PM Rating: Default
I think you need serious help.
Go back to FFXI land.
#19 Nov 30 2004 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
Well, if you absolutely have to min/max, then it depends on what faction your friends are going. Keep in mind that Horde and Alliance players cannot send eachother tells, group, or, at the time of this post, even learn eachother's languages to communicate (this is supposedly going to be added). That being said, look at the int, spirit, and beginning mana for the four races who can become a mage:

ALLIANCE:
Gnome:
int: 26,
spirit: 22
mana: 210

Human:
int: 23,
spirit: 22
mana: 165


HORDE:
Undead:
int: 21
spirit: 27
mana: 135

Troll:
int: 19
spirit: 23
mana: 119


You also need to factor in race-specific abilities. Gnomes have the ability to avoid being immobilized, as well as +5% int and +10 arcane resistance. Undead can become immune to fear, sleep, and charm. Trolls regenerate fast from physical damage, as well as go berserk and cast faster when below 20% health.

Stat-wise, it seems like gnome is the best choice, so I'd go them if your friends are all alliance. However, if they're horde, Undead slightly edge out trolls.
#20 Dec 01 2004 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
After playing my new Mage for 3 days, it appears to me that WoW is similar to EverQuest in terms of starting stats and race choices: they don't really matter in the long run.

As one levels, one allocates various specialisation points, acquires gear with bonus stats, is buffed by other party or raid members... etc., etc. By the time we reach lvl 20, none of those starting stats are particularly significant when added to the far more appreciable gains one will recieve from all of the above.

As in most good RPG games, your choice of race is essentially a roleplaying choice. Pick whatever race most appeals to you, and the various stats and such will take care of themselves. And if your race has a particular advantage that others don't (say, the ability to train in swords), that won't really be all that significant either by the time we all hit the end-game. Starting abilities may, however, make it a little easier for one race to level up at the beginning as compared to another, but that would seem to be the only real advantage overall. And of course, for every advantage a particular race might have, I'm sure there's also a disadvantage somewhere thrown into the mix as well.

Build and play your character well, and you'll do splendidly I'm sure.

~ Kjellan
~ over 4 billion nukes served





Edited, Wed Dec 1 01:27:43 2004 by Rasterburn
#21 Dec 02 2004 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
Rasterburn wrote:
After playing my new Mage for 3 days, it appears to me that WoW is similar to EverQuest in terms of starting stats and race choices: they don't really matter in the long run.

As one levels, one allocates various specialisation points, acquires gear with bonus stats, is buffed by other party or raid members... etc., etc. By the time we reach lvl 20, none of those starting stats are particularly significant when added to the far more appreciable gains one will recieve from all of the above.

As in most good RPG games, your choice of race is essentially a roleplaying choice. Pick whatever race most appeals to you, and the various stats and such will take care of themselves. And if your race has a particular advantage that others don't (say, the ability to train in swords), that won't really be all that significant either by the time we all hit the end-game. Starting abilities may, however, make it a little easier for one race to level up at the beginning as compared to another, but that would seem to be the only real advantage overall. And of course, for every advantage a particular race might have, I'm sure there's also a disadvantage somewhere thrown into the mix as well.

Build and play your character well, and you'll do splendidly I'm sure.

~ Kjellan
~ over 4 billion nukes served

Well said and I am in agreement. The only MMORPG I know of where starting stats make a large difference in the game is FFXI. In Wow there are numerous methods to increase your characters stats and their spell/skill effectiveness: talents, buffs, equipment, enchantments on the equipment, etc. There is no ULTIMATE race for any particular class (though I still find Gnomish Warriors pretty funny).
#22 Dec 03 2004 at 12:43 AM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Stats may not matter much, but special abilities do. The mana from +5% Intelligence is nice for a mage at higher levels as well, so is ignoring fear at other times. These are abilities that equipment will not make up for as easily, and why I'd think most Alliance mages are gnomes and most Horde mages are undead.

As for best mage race, I'd pick undead. 20 seconds of fear, sleep, charm immunity may not seem like much, but if you're up against a warlock, a well-timed Will of the Forsaken can mean life or death in an even PVP encounter. If I were to remake my mage as a Horde member, they'd be my race of choice without doubt.
#23 Dec 04 2004 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
I am an Undead Mage. And I don't think the stats really matter at all, more in the beginning few levels, but after 8+, who cares. You can tank out your stats throughtout the game. Mages are quite fun though.
#24 Dec 04 2004 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
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217 posts
Best "race" you mean. I chose gnome cause their so small. They start off with great intelligence, and mana but I also liked the way they looked. :P
#25 Dec 09 2004 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
I have to disagree with much that has been said already.

In this game, stats really do matter. The starting differences may be minor, but every bit helps a LOT. Unlike EQ, or other mmorpgs, you do not need multiple stat bonuses to gain a noticable effect on your character. In WoW, at lvl 34, one point of int equals around 20-35 extra points of mana (I cant remember atm) so the 6 point difference between a gnome mage and a troll mage is pretty major, especially since my most mana costly nuke is 300 mana. In fact, all stats matter in this same sense since 1sta = 15 hp 1agi = 12 armor, etc. In fact the only stat that doesn't have a direct drastic effect is Spi, which was nerfed in the Open Beta (if I am recalling correctly) so that it no longer effects an regeneration rates until five seconds after you have finished casting, making it absolutely useless in combat. In fact, the basic thoughts on Spi at the moment is that it only really impacts the Talent called Evocation.

All of these reasons, plus aesthetic appeal, is why I chose to make a gnome mage, the inherent +5% int bonus that scales with your int score is just incredible...

I know that everyone can get gear to increase their int stat, but just saying that gnomes do actually have an advantage since toward the end game the only stat that really matters seems to be raw int to produce the largest mana pool possible.

Edited, Thu Dec 9 03:16:22 2004 by Trixierix
#26 Jan 13 2005 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
30 posts
Trix's comment exactly mimics the ffxi basis of play as well. Encouraged to try all jobs, however you will max out with the exact race that maxes for that job type. ie: gnome for mages. the mana boost is very noticeable.

p.s. both games are awesome and are not all that different even though fans will tell you otherwise hehe.

C ya,

Ariah
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