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Any reasons for the recipe levels that you know?Follow

#1 Nov 04 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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I have been trying to study different crafting recipes and trying to figure out what is the best way to steadily level crafting for any DoH class, and I notice an universal trend about recipe levels that always makes me scratch my head and said, "wth were they thinking when they decided the level for each recipes?"

Maybe somebody can shed light on my head.

My question is: Why would you need something in higher levels to synthesize something in lower levels? For example, you can make a lot of things with Hempen cloth 9 levels before you can make Hempen Cloth; same thing goes for cotton and canvas.

I have been trying to figure out a reason to why this is even arranged this way? Is it because SE doesn't want any crafters to have a logical progression? Or they are trying to give higher crafters a little advantage by having the chance to sell higher level items that all lower level crafters need?

I am sure this is laid out the way it is for a reason, because it is everywhere in all DoH recipes. I am just not getting "WHY"

Can somebody tell me why?
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#2 Nov 05 2010 at 6:50 AM Rating: Decent
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This seems very annoying at first, but actually makes great sense in many ways and now I love it. First to compare it to the real world it is a lot harder to spin thread or make cloth then to put the pieces together. Which is admittedly a lame answer but the better thought was this:

When you level up you are forced to skill on the thread > cloth. This gives you the mats to make the finished product (5-10 level's below you) and now your not blowing up robes/gloves/hats etc. But rather thread or cloth. When I dinged lvl 30 yesterday for weaving I was making dye'd canvas all from 28-30. Now I have a good supply of the mats needed to make some gil back and synth up some gear to sell. I don't have to worry about breaking a 250k synth. Not all the pieces are like this but at least the body items are much easier then the parts to make them.

Side note: SE did say they were going to adjust some recipe level synths where appropriate.
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#3 Nov 05 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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I understand the concepts of leveling on yarns before the cloth is somewhat logical, but for example:

hempen yarn is level 1 synth, while using hempen yarn to make hempen cloth is level 9.

There are literally hundreds of recipes from level 1 to level 9 requiring hempen cloth; now, for crafters lower than level 7, where are they going to get their hempen cloth to level or make products they need?

Same thing goes for cotton yarn (11) ---> cotton cloth (19), 8 levels in between, and pretty much everything before cotton cloth requires cotton cloth.

Isn't it odd? yes, crafter may just need to suck it up and buy cotton cltoh somewhere, do leve to level, or find some really odd synth to level, but the resulting products are useless. I have made hundreds of hempen halftops, and crow fly only because I think those are pretty much the most economical things to level on. (discounting the time to manage going to retainer, set up bazzar in right place, sell only 10, and prey that anybody buys this stuff)

that's why it makes me wonder, how come hempen yarn --> hempen cloth is NOT only 3 levels different; how come cotton yarn --> cotton cloth is NOT only 3 levels different. Having them spread so far while everything in between requires the farthest item to make is rather odd.

I guess crafters just need to suck it up for now....



Edited, Nov 5th 2010 12:33pm by triangold
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#4 Nov 05 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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triangold wrote:
I understand the concepts of leveling on yarns before the cloth is somewhat logical, but for example:

hempen yarn is level 1 synth, while using hempen yarn to make hempen cloth is level 9.

There are literally hundreds of recipes from level 1 to level 9 requiring hempen cloth; now, for crafters lower than level 7, where are they going to get their hempen cloth to level or make products they need?

Same thing goes for cotton yarn (11) ---> cotton cloth (19), 8 levels in between, and pretty much everything before cotton cloth requires cotton cloth.

Isn't it odd? yes, crafter may just need to suck it up and buy cotton cltoh somewhere, do leve to level, or find some really odd synth to level, but the resulting products are useless. I have made hundreds of hempen halftops, and crow fly only because I think those are pretty much the most economical things to level on. (discounting the time to manage going to retainer, set up bazzar in right place, sell only 10, and prey that anybody buys this stuff)

that's why it makes me wonder, how come hempen yarn --> hempen cloth is NOT only 3 levels different; how come cotton yarn --> cotton cloth is NOT only 3 levels different. Having them spread so far while everything in between requires the farthest item to make is rather odd.

I guess crafters just need to suck it up for now....

Edited, Nov 5th 2010 12:33pm by triangold

Different people are going to have different methods. I've skilled up on Cotton Cloth at 13. Was I successful 100% of the time? Of course not. But there was something I wanted to make with them so I went in expecting to fail quite a bit and succeeded on more than I was expecting.
#5 Nov 05 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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I admire your courage to take on cotton cloth at rank 13, Ravashack.

I tried to delay cotton cloth as much as possible, because cotton yarn requires a lightning crystal, which I had only 17 when I started making cotton yarn at weaver 15, granted, I could only make it 17 times.

But I can not afford to botch, because not only Lightning crystals are hard to drop, it's hard to buy as well. A botched synthesis may mean 6-9k loss in material, and average 15 minutes loss of time (time to find crystal for sale)

It's still possible to level of course, I heard there are rank 50 weavers already.

I am just curious why the recipe levels are arranged the way it is now. It sure doesn't make sense to me, and I think maybe somebody can make some sense out of it to satisfy curiousity. :P
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#6 Nov 06 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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I think that SE may have gotten many things the wrong way. Just as an example:

Buffalo Leather Spetch is Leatherworking R21 but you can buy it for 1600 Gil, it requires Buffalo Leather (Leatherworking R29) which can be bought for 8000 Gil. Buffalo Leather requires Buffalo Hide and that can be bought for 24000 Gil... see the problem. A base ingredient costs way more than the finished product. And it seems most the ingredients fall that way. The Rank 1 tool belt that SE gave me when I start out, is very difficult to repair, because can't find the material to do it and don't have a high enough Leatherworking to craft the parts. Granted this is much a like real life... the line worker in an auto assembly plant can't build the electronics that most cars use, but honestly who wants game to mimic real life?
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#7 Nov 07 2010 at 7:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Buffalo Leather Spetch is Leatherworking R21 but you can buy it for 1600 Gil, it requires Buffalo Leather (Leatherworking R29) which can be bought for 8000 Gil. Buffalo Leather requires Buffalo Hide and that can be bought for 24000 Gil... see the problem. A base ingredient costs way more than the finished product. And it seems most the ingredients fall that way. The Rank 1 tool belt that SE gave me when I start out, is very difficult to repair, because can't find the material to do it and don't have a high enough Leatherworking to craft the parts. Granted this is much a like real life... the line worker in an auto assembly plant can't build the electronics that most cars use, but honestly who wants game to mimic real life?


Regarding the price:

1 Buffalo Hide > 4 Buffalo Leather > 24 Leather Spetch

Ingredient isn't really more expensive den the finished product

Regarding the OP question, i couldn't give a good answer to it but; if the equipment was at a higher lvl den the cloth, and ppl start "Skill Up" on making equips, we will have a markert flooded with unused equipments.
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#8 Nov 14 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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aj7418 wrote:
This seems very annoying at first, but actually makes great sense in many ways and now I love it. First to compare it to the real world it is a lot harder to spin thread or make cloth then to put the pieces together. Which is admittedly a lame answer but the better thought was this:

When you level up you are forced to skill on the thread > cloth. This gives you the mats to make the finished product (5-10 level's below you) and now your not blowing up robes/gloves/hats etc. But rather thread or cloth. When I dinged lvl 30 yesterday for weaving I was making dye'd canvas all from 28-30. Now I have a good supply of the mats needed to make some gil back and synth up some gear to sell. I don't have to worry about breaking a 250k synth. Not all the pieces are like this but at least the body items are much easier then the parts to make them.

Side note: SE did say they were going to adjust some recipe level synths where appropriate.


Ummm which definition of harder are you referring to exactly?

If you are referring to PHYSICAL LABOR harder, then yes. It is. If you are referring to the fact it takes more SKILL to make cloth than it does clothes, I would argue with you.

First of all, cloth is bought my most tailors in developed countries simply because it is much more cost effective for them to buy it rather than buy the textiles, hire the people to run the machines to separate, clean and weave the textiles into thread then run them through the loom to make cloth. Most of the hard work these days is done by machine in modern countries. In the old days when there weren't any machines, looms and cloth were spun by women and children. In India and many other not-so-well-off countries of the world, it still is woven by children.

Now, the sewing aspect of the tailoring process is done mostly by machine these days too, but take into account the entire process of tailoring-- making measurements, adjustments, choosing the fabric to use, the colors to put together, designing the outfit. Those are things a machine can't do and requires creativity and a more deeper knowledge of the trade to produce rather than run the shuttle through, pull the harness down, rinse and repeat.
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