The case for Cure 1 in XP parties.Follow

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm here to propose a pact.

Always, always, always use Cure I (and not Cure II) in xp grinding parties. Here is why:

In all likelihood there are 2-3 people curing. You are all going to be chomping at the bit to get those cures in first for the sp for them.

Regardless of which rank you cast, your max SP gain is going to be either roughly or exactly the same. You do not have a higher possible SP gain by using Cure II.

Furthermore, your SP gain from healing is based on how much of the spell's potential is used up. So for example, say your party configuration sets your max healing SP at around 100 (5-7 people in appropriate level range). AoE weaponskill hits everyone in the party for 225 damage. You cast Cure I, you heal everyone for 225 HP. For each person for whom you get a SP proc, you get 100 / 100 points.

If instead you use Cure II, you heal everyone for 225 HP and you get 60 / 100 possible points.

Say the AoE hits everyone in the party for 600 damage. By each of three healers casting Cure I, you each heal for roughly 200, each getting 90/100 possible points per proc. Or you could cast Cure II, possibly get 100 / 100 possible points per proc, while making sure that the other healers get 50 / 100 and 0 / 100 per proc.

Using Cure II in that situation is obviously inferior all around, because approximately 1/3rd of the time you will get 0, 1/3rd of the time you will get 50, and 1/3rd of the time you will get 100, for an average of 50 / 100 SP.

If you all use Cure I, you will get 90 / 100, 100% of the time (under the assumed 600 damage aoe example).

Obviously, keep people alive. If the damage is very heavy and you're going to struggle to keep up between 3 of you spamming Cure I, then Cure II is appropriate (e.g., 2 or more monsters attacking simultaneously).

Be kind to your co-healers. Use Cure I. Cure II gains you nothing and screws your neighbor, which also screws you.

Edited, Oct 26th 2010 1:35pm by JayRams

What's the source of this information? I've never heard that before, I've never personally experienced anything like that, and haven't seen any data to suggest that those are the SP mechanics in place.

Please don't take that as an attack; it's very interesting information and if it's verified, than sign me up for the Cure 1 onry party.

Now does Cure 1 trigger an SP gain as often as Cure 2 does? That's the one factor that's absent from your analysis. If a Cure 2 cast triggers a lessor SP gain more often (as compared to Cure 1), doesn't that offset the analysis?

Also, don't bigger Cure bombs = topped off health bars = more chance to spam SD on the target mob and less time heal spamming? Don't get me wrong, I get good SP from buffing and curing in a party setting, but I find that I maximize my SP gains by spamming SD on the mob as much as possible.

Edit: now in a party with multiple healers, I see how the Cure I spam makes sense and helps everyone maximize SP, but in those parties I usually end up designating a single person as healer / buffer and other casters focus on DPS. As CON/THM I have multiple buffs / debuffs / heals to keep me busy and keep everyone alive. I can get plenty of SP without ever hitting the mob if necessary.

Edited, Oct 26th 2010 3:21pm by DonFlamenco

I mostly follow this as well, but in a slightly modified way - I removed Cure1 from my bar when I got Sacrifice. Sacrifice heals for roughly the same amount as Cure1 and returns roughly the same sp, but I believe it also has the added benefit of being considered a buff (like Protect, Stoneskin, etc) as well. This means when I AE cast it on whoever has taken damage, it does the same thing as Cure1, and anyone it hits that hasn't taken damage can still give 20-30 sp instead of 0.

Nobody's raging here, pal-o-mine. I do just fine in SP parties, but I'm trying to clue people in on how to be more efficient.



There is no internal claim that the math is advanced.



I'm a level 33 Conjurer, I have plenty of situational observations to back up my claims, but didn't feel the need to bloat the post with them at this point.

You'll notice that not a single person has come forward to say "I get more SP for using Cure II." Ergo there is no reason to use Cure II for SP purposes unless it's necessary to keep people alive, and it's rarely necessary to keep people alive since there are usually plenty of healers to spam Rank 1 to keep folks up.



No offense, just like before, right?



This is incorrect. Each person your heal restores HP to (aside from yourself) is a chance to proc XP, and the % of the total heal value actually restored governs how much that particular SP proc is worth.



You're the first person to suggest that my post is a complaint rather than constructive and informational suggestions for party SP optimization.



Having spent 8 levels duo'ing for SP, and another 8 grouping for SP, I can tell you unequivocally that you are incorrect in your statement that duo'ing is superior SP. It is not.

I'll posit that if you think it is, it's because you haven't had the opportunity to chain together 10-14k SP per hour in a group of 9-12 people.

Furthermore, the developers of the game have come out and plainly said that there is a SP bonus to be earned by being in large parties within certain intra-party level range limits. To suggest that duo-ing is superior to this bonus necessarily implies that you think that either the Developers are lying to you, or that you wholly misunderstand the mechanics of how SP is awarded for healing.

Your entire post begs the question: have you even healed in a large party?

::edits:: Grammar.

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 6:08pm by JayRams

OP,

Your observations are spot on from what I can tell. I find that when partying, there is a soft cap on SP gain for curing. This cap, is likely determined by:

- whether you're getting bonus SP due to being in a party?
- then, if in a party, how MANY people are in the party? The more I add, it seems to go up. Example, when partying with 4 people, the cures were granting for 86 SP consistently WHEN it proc'd. Adding another took me to 100SP, adding a 6th brought it up to 110ish. I don't know if there is a hard cap at some point (assume so)
- Your level in relation to the mob. Two CON in the party, at different levels, may see a different soft cap
- There seems to be no difference in proc rate between cure I and cure II

It really annoys me to have a second mage in the party spamming Cure II or Sac II. Fortunately, I make my own parties, so either they can go along with it or, make their own party, should they not like the one they are in (with me).

Good find!

Edited, Nov 1st 2010 10:49pm by KnocturnalOne

I realize that, but I am talking about the soft cap, per action, per battle.

Oh, my mistake for misreading.

There are no softcaps for SP gain per action (besides the obvious 500). You can get 400+ by blocking a very very high rank monster as a gladiator, capping your gladiatorial friend instantly.

And one thing better than Cure 1 is Sacrifice. It has 2/3 the heal potency (due to cross class), cures yourself for less so other conjurers/thaumaturges can heal you (and get SP, in the process), and you get a buff (with all benefits of buffing in battle). I've gotten ~400SP from one really really really good sacrifice at efts. Personally, I rotate between Sacrifice and Cure 1, with exception to when sh*t happens, where I switch to Cure II/III.

It's a circular AoE if you're a conjurer, and conal AoE if you're a thaumaturge. And directional single target if you're any other class.

I hate people that use Cure 2 to steal my precious precious SP ^^

Edited, Nov 2nd 2010 3:13pm by Meowshi