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Elemental Points DiscussionFollow

#1 Sep 12 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent

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So, while i'm not completely sure if what I'm going to do is the 'best' way. here's what I have planned.

Every 3 levels I will spend my Elemental points in such a way:

Level 2: 3 points in Lightning
Level 3: 3 points in Lightning
Level 4: 3 Points in Fire

Repeating this onwards. From what I have read, Fire, Ice, Water are Astral (Light) and Lightning, Wind and Earth are Umbral (Dark).

So now... The real question is, as a THM does it matter what element you put your points in, if they are grouped up as such? For a Conj it would, because they have actual element specific spells, while ours are light/dark only. I figure, to not be gimped in case something is immune to Umbral magic, I would boost up my Astral a bit for Banish and such.

Any comments?

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#2 Sep 12 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good

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I believe those are just resistances, like they were in FFXI. I did some very minor testing, but after throwing 20 points into the Ice element my Blizzard did exactly the same damage as it was before. I see many many players saying they're going to "spec an element", I think a lot of misinformation is being passed around.

#3 Sep 12 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent

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hmmmmm

That could be. Misinformation? I think not. No Information absolutely. There is no manual :) If the elements are there for resistances... then, well it should have something like that somewhere in a tool-tip in-game. :/

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#4 Sep 13 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Excellent

EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober

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There is also evidence to suggest that some things are still broken and have not been fully tested or fixed yet. Heres a part of a test I did looking at Tier II spells vs Tier I from the last Beta. I havent got far enough this Beta because I have been doing other things but you can clearly see there is something not quite right.

 
TESTING: 
 
Did some further testing to see the differences (or not) between Tier I and Tier II THM spells.  Here is my rational and results: 
I wanted to test as accurately as possible so I went to Cassiopeia Hollow and tested on the jellyfish there so I could get MP quick. I set Dark Seal and Blood Rite and used Scourge in this test (although the results are the same with Banish). I would start the fight with both buffs on and then cast Scourge I & II alternatively. After the fight I would rest timers and get mp back. Then I would switch the two spells over. The justification for this was that Scourge lowers the Umbral defence of mobs so if I always opened with the same Tier, whatever I cast second would be stronger. I wanted to have as much control as possible on this. 
Results: 
	Spell	DMG	Spell	DMG	Spell	DMG	Spell	DMG 
 
Test 1: 	SCI	276	SC2	251	SC1	251	SC2	187 
Test 2:	SC2	247	SCI	239	SC2	293(c)	SC1	166 
Test 3:	SCI	262	SC2	277	SC1	297(c)	 
Test 4:	SC2	259	SCI	260	SC2	300(c) 
Test 5:	SCI	233	SC2	135(r)	SC1	176	SC2	196 
Test 6:	SC2	280	SCI	267	SC2	274 
Test 7:	SCI	231	SC2	244	SC1	119(r)	SC2	241 
Test 8:	SC2	236	SCI	238	SC2	251	SC1	148 
Test 9:	SCI	236	SC2	242	SC1	276(c)	 
As you can see from the results so far the difference between the two is nominal. Scourge 1 is sometimes more powerful than II and visa versa.  
Not what you would expect from a Tier II that cost way more MP!

Edited, Sep 13th 2010 12:20pm by EdyNOTB

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#5 Oct 02 2010 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent

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Well I'm just about to go make my THM.

We'll see how things work out now in retail I guess :)

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#6 Oct 03 2010 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good

EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober

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Kardall wrote:

Well I'm just about to go make my THM.

We'll see how things work out now in retail I guess :)

Well if you enjoy it half as much as I do you'll be doubling your fun in FFXIV!

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#7 Oct 03 2010 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent

EmotionBlues

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I have 150 Elemental Points I've never assigned. >.> I've got no idea what to do with them!

#8 Oct 03 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good

EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober

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EmotionBlues wrote:

I have 150 Elemental Points I've never assigned. >.> I've got no idea what to do with them!

Are you serious?

If not then I lol'd at this one :)

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#9 Oct 04 2010 at 3:34 AM Rating: Good

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I just piled them on to the ones my weapon uses
its like
40%
30%
30%

#10 Oct 04 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent

EmotionBlues

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Quote:

Are you serious?

If not then I lol'd at this one :)

It was both serious but meant to be funny.

I really do have 150 Elemental points to spend. I'm Rank 12THM now - just finished CON to 6 for Stoneskin to help when I'm healing.

The biggest reason I didn't assign any was because it was unknown if they had any bearing on Synthesis. Alchemy is my main focus - and the purpose of elemental affinity for synthesis is up for debate. The only proven function in that regards seems to be Crystal drops.

All of THM damage is Umbral or Astral though, right? Is there a direct benefeit to our damage dealing capabilities or a theory on the correlation of Debuffs and particular element? I haven't noticed myself being resisted a ton - I even joined some Rank20 Leves as a healer/debuffer at Rank 11 and I was landing Slow somewhat reliably. Dia barely got resisted at 12 fighting Rank 20 leve mobs.

I'd love to devise a spending scheme based on the benefeit of THM spells rather then let my crafting or shard needs decide it.

#11 Oct 04 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good

EdyNOTB, pet mage of Jabober

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EmotionBlues wrote:

Quote:

Are you serious?

If not then I lol'd at this one :)

It was both serious but meant to be funny.

I really do have 150 Elemental points to spend. I'm Rank 12THM now - just finished CON to 6 for Stoneskin to help when I'm healing.

The biggest reason I didn't assign any was because it was unknown if they had any bearing on Synthesis. Alchemy is my main focus - and the purpose of elemental affinity for synthesis is up for debate. The only proven function in that regards seems to be Crystal drops.

All of THM damage is Umbral or Astral though, right? Is there a direct benefeit to our damage dealing capabilities or a theory on the correlation of Debuffs and particular element? I haven't noticed myself being resisted a ton - I even joined some Rank20 Leves as a healer/debuffer at Rank 11 and I was landing Slow somewhat reliably. Dia barely got resisted at 12 fighting Rank 20 leve mobs.

I'd love to devise a spending scheme based on the benefeit of THM spells rather then let my crafting or shard needs decide it.

Ahha makes more sense now you have explained it further. Regarding attribute points rather than elemental resistances, its obvious you should be putting your points into INT, PIE and MND + a smaller % into VIT. This is what I am currently doing and have played around with this since alpha. DEX is still up for debate but some small testing I did with STR and Phantom Dart meant that increasing STR doesn not affect the DMG of the move.

Regarding elemental resistance I have been just putting in equal amounts - actually spending your points makes sense if you are fighting mobs as any special moves they might have 'may' be linked to elemental strength, so a well rounded set of points would be more benificial. Of course the fact that you can reassign points means that if there are advantages to having larger strength in certain elements (you mentioned for crystal drops for example) means that if in the future it is proven that certain combinations are better for THM (or ALC in both our cases as thats my main craft too!) we can just move points about and eventually get the right combination.

Edited, Oct 4th 2010 3:48pm by EdyNOTB

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#12 Oct 04 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent

kenshynOnShiva

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since your conjurer is 6 you have access to all the conjurer elemental nukes I like setting mobs on fire after a good banish lol.

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#13 Oct 05 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent

NinjaRensha

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THM's get some elemental attacks. One is a freezing attack. And elemental attributes DO affect attack and defense of elements, it's in the help manual at the aetheryte. They also affect shard/crystal drops when gathering(from a newer dev Q&A), so that's something to think about.

I personally keep lightning, fire, and wind high, and some points in the others. Lightning is awesome because it should boost Shock Spikes too.

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#14 Oct 28 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent

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I've just been spending them all equally for now, if it's found out later on that I need to change them, that's wait reassign is for lol.

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#15 Nov 03 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

And elemental attributes DO affect attack and defense of elements, it's in the help manual at the aetheryte. They also affect shard/crystal drops when gathering(from a newer dev Q&A), so that's something to think about.

Thank you NinjaRensha for pointing that out, as I was thinking it needed to be done before I got to your post in the thread. The in-game manual "Call to Adventure" does in fact indicate that elemental attributes affect both elemental defense and elemental spell potency. The "Ask the Devs" topics on the Lodestone are also a very good source of information to get in the habit of checking regularly.

I also wanted to share some elemental polarity (astral or umbral) theories I've come across. There was a really good debate going on over at Eorzeapedia that I thought was interesting: http://www.eorzeapedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=7316

It seems that most players believe each element to potentially have an Astral polarity, an Umbral polarity, or both. Some players believe that the 3 Conquest Elements (Earth, Lightning, and Water) have an Astral polarity, while the 3 Submission Elements (Fire, Ice, and Wind) have an Umbral polarity. Others believe that each element has both an Astral and Umbral side to them due to the order of the Eorzean calendar. Another theory is that the 3 elements on the upper half of the elemental wheel (Wind, Lightning, and Fire) are Astral, with the 3 elements on the lower half (Water, Ice, and Earth) are Umbral.

As for me, I am allocating my points according to the spells I use for Conjurer. I don't see any point in hanging on to them until all these theories are tested in full, plus you can always reassign them later.

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