Wtf happened to fishingFollow

I've been gone for about a year. Just before i left, they did the whole fishing system change. Which is entirely fine. I happen to like it more. What i dont like is how skillups are rediculously slower than before. I mean...2 days of constant fishing and I went from 13 to 18....not botting of course. Not to mention I just caught about 100 fish and had 3 .1 skillups. It was way faster before i left. Was even fishing on a 100% full moon during it's entire duration. Was there some kinda bs change that went through to make fishing skillups painfully slower than they were before?

 
Char Info: 
Kirra 
Pandemonium 
Mithra 
 Thief          50 
 Warrior        41 
 Ninja          38 
 Monk           20 
-------- 
Crafts 
 Woodworking    72 
 Alchemy        60 
 Smithing       60 
 Clothcraft     60 
 Cooking        20 
 Leathercraft   17 
 Fishing        13 
 Bonecraft      08 

Considering the system change happened well over 4 years ago, you've been gone a hell of a lot longer than a year if that's the case.

And skillups have always been this way. Maybe it seemed better when you were fishing up moat carps and throwing them up on the AH, but it's normally very slow...though it can be very streaky; I got 1.1 levels in 20 minutes a few months ago in the 80's.

If you enjoy fishing, go for profit (there's plenty of guides) and take the occasional skillup as a bonus; if you're in it for skillups, prepare to get very frustrated.

Edited, Nov 18th 2009 11:59pm by Clyne

Get a pelican ring. It doubles your skillup rate.

The "whole fishing system change" I thought was back in 2005. (It's the first item listed under System Related, it doesn't go into much detail in the notes but I do remember them adding that new NPC by the guild that explains it)

So yeah, that was quite a while more than a year. I don't know what else he could be referring to >_>

The Lu Shang is the only real important rod to aim for as a fisher and is the only rod that will make a significant difference in your fishing ability.

The Ebisu is just a convenience rod (woohoo, you don't have to carry a stack of light crystals anymore, if and only if you go after fish that are capable of breaking the Lu) that does not expand your fishing capabilities AT ALL. Not to mention that not every high level fisher would even make an attempt at this anyway (the Ebisu quest is one of the most convoluted and essentially most expensive quests in the game), and if you have no interest in it, Serpent Rumors and Mooching are useless to you.

Edited, Nov 20th 2009 5:40pm by Fynlar

So what's the point of fishing at all then? If you're gonna be a whiny little bitch about it, and chasten others for the desire to increase skills, then maybe you need to find something else to do in the game.

Raising fishing skill is a valid desire for a number of reasons. Not to mention this is a RPG based game, and many people like to make a goal for themselves and follow that goal to completion, but raising fishing skill allows for further quests to become available to them such as Inside The Belly. And yes, an Ebisu is an upgrade to the Lu Shang, regardless of your lame attempt at disparaging its usefulness. It's not just about not having to carry around crystals any longer. It's about not having to deal with annoying breaks, losing the bait/rig, and losing the fish you are aiming for. It's about being able to sell that 3+ million Lu Shang that you spent so much time working towards getting. It's about knowing you caught your own Liks and Gugrus to complete the quest, and didn't buy them from people who were SMART and leveled their fishing up so they could catch them without fail.

If you don't like the way the fishing system is in this game then move along. Find another craft/HELM to pick up and GTFO, or just quit the game entirely. It's incredibly annoying when someone has a valid question, and then @#%^tards such as yourself respond with a pointless and stupid response.

Fynlar, i completely agree with your post, and thats why i'm not interested at all in getting my Ebisu.

However i have a feeling that PangArt's problem with your post was more to do with the fact that he view this more as an RPG, than an MMO.

Thus, the achievement of completing one of the hardest quests in the game is the reward rather than the money it brings in.

I don't. I see fishing at a means to get gil for better equipment. I would like to see (Fishing 100). The other reason I'm not going for it, is because i have cooking 100, and i don't have a WW mule.

I'm sorry. I'll make sure to remember from now on: giving valid advice without even being insulting in a topic that specifically asks for feedback on an issue is still being a douchebag in Pangy's world.




Yeah, unfortunately, the Ebisu doesn't make it important, for the reason I stated above.




lolitsreallyquiteaccurate. I think what you meant to say was that you just have no retort, which is understandable, because I'm right.




It must be a great life that you have, deluding yourself into believing your "logic" is always right, when anyone who actually has an Ebisu (a group which I highly doubt you're even a member of) knows better.




O snap, I think Imma cry D:

No, actually, I meant "I don't know" as in "You'd have to be really stupid special to want to expend effort to lose time/money", but hey, there's probably people out there who get off to gay robot porn, so who am I to judge?




WHY you want to do it isn't any of my goddamn business, nor do I care. It still doesn't mean that I'm going to advise people to do it when the numbers and averages support the fact that it's not a worthwhile time/monetary investment.




Hoo boy, you are thick.

Let's try this again. If you have an Ebisu, breaks are meaningless, because having one likely means that you already have the ability to fix a Lu.

Was that clear enough for you, or do I have to step down to toddler speak?

And if you're actually fixing your Lu with lumber, well... it's not really my problem that people like to piss away even more of their money for even more inconvenience.




The Ebisu doesn't let you fish anything you can't with a Lu, therefore I don't consider it an upgrade. I'll say this as many times as it takes to sink in.

I don't consider not needing to carry light crystals to be an advantage worth noting. The fish that are even capable of breaking Lu are few and far between, and for most people will only be fish encountered in the Ebisu quest itself.

The Ebisu allows slightly less time to catch a fish than Lu does. This is a disadvantage that, again, isn't worth noting.

All this is why the Ebisu is meh. It simply does not stand out from a Lu. The Lu drastically changes the scope of what you are able to fish and how much net worth you are able to reel in from numerous locations around the world, primarily by enabling you to target both small fish and big fish at the same time. The Ebisu does absolutely nothing to change any of that.




Yeah, maybe it would sound stupid to you. You haven't exactly convinced me of your shining intelligence yet. Let me lay it out again just for you:

If you don't go for an Ebisu, you have very little reason to frequently go after the small handful of fish that can actually break a Lu. I personally never did.

Still too complicated for you? Probably. Here it is in another form:

You want an Ebisu so that you aren't screwed when you break your Lu.
In order to get the Ebisu, you must deal with Lu breaks.
By the time you level your WW to get around the Lu breaks, guess what? You don't need the Ebisu anymore! You have a Lu you can fix! You've just invalidated your entire reason for getting an Ebisu!

If I had only the Lu today I'd still be just as successful with fishing as I am now and I'd also be about 4 million gil richer from having sold all those fish. I doubt I'd have leveled my woodworking to 80, but there's nothing saying I couldn't have done that anyway without going for Ebisu.




Good for you? It's still impractical from a time/money standpoint (numbers don't lie and aren't swayed by personal "feelings" about a given item) and therefore something I can't recommend. Because believe it or not, most people fish to make money, not lose it.




No it doesn't, because the Ebisu rod itself doesn't mean sh*t.

I'm sorry that you seem convinced that the rod is doing more for you than it really is (assuming you even have it, because if you don't, it just makes your stance even more groundless). If this game has taught me anything, it's that people love their placebos. Let me guess, do you still run toward goblins to make them drop their bombs, too?




No kidding. If anything, this should have been giving you an idea of just how much fishing skill DOESN'T matter.

I was catching Black Sole easily 100% of the time when I got my Lu in the 50s (I made loads of money off these back when sole sushi was a hot commodity and before RMT moved in on it), so any inability to do the same on your part is your fault and your problem.

Now for the interesting part -- since reaching 100, the rod shifted on Black Sole just as much as it did before (and still does with Ebisu, as a matter of fact). The game hasn't made them any easier to reflect my higher skill, nor will this be the case with any other fish in the game because that's not something that fishing skill does (can you see why I'm saying fishing skill doesn't mean sh*t, yet?). They are only easier to me now because I am very well experienced with how those fish behave. Based on the fact they haven't changed at all since outleveling them, I'm certain I could catch Black Sole just fine at an even lower level.

Now for some edumacation, because I'm really very generous and not a douchebag like you're somehow convinced I am. There are two things that affect rate of rod shifting on a particular species of fish:
1) Whether or not you're using the right kind of rod (big fish will shake the rod more with a "small fish" rod, and it will also give you significantly less time to try to land the catch, not to mention higher rate of lost catches and/or breaks)
2) Whether or not you're using a Penguin Ring

Anything else you think is contributing to it can really just be attributed to one thing -- sheer dumb luck. It sure as hell isn't fishing skill.




Everything I said in my first post was good, accurate, relevant advice, and you haven't disproven any of it.

Again, I'm sorry you've been misled to think the Ebisu does more than it really does, but I'm not going to stand by and let you try to convince anyone else as such without an argument. I busted my ass for this rod but it doesn't mean I'm going to lie and pimp it out as more awesome than it really is.



And irony? Do you even know what the word means?
Considering I just used it (correctly), I would say so.



Even if one person provided a greater positive contribution in two lines than another did in two posts, where is the irony in that?
It's ironic because you're so convinced you're right and I'm wrong when it's the total opposite.

It's ironic because you're so convinced that you're the great savior of this thread when in reality you've dragged it into a sh*thole that it didn't need to be in, while simultaneously providing absolutely nothing relevant (or correct, for that matter) to the thread.

Need I go on?



That makes no sense.

FFXI is a MMORPG, breaking the acronym into two separate parts doesn't create the contradiction that you are implying. There is no secret here, "massively multiplayer online" means a sh*t load of people are playing via the internet; and "role-playing game" just describes the type of game it is.

So what's your point?
You really aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

His point is that you suck at determining the actual practicality and value of an item because you are too blinded by personal feelings about said item, and possess (or are ignoring) the ability to understand the greater picture. Thus, you ought not to be talking about it in public, where people care about how useful something actually is, not whatever other sort of basis you are stacking it up against.

Edited, Nov 24th 2009 12:56am by Fynlar

Do you actually want the Cave Cherax? You don't have to reel them in. Most Kuftal fishers avoid reeling these in (it's very easy to tell them apart from mobs, and when the manta window is open you usually don't want to waste time fighting these). If you wanted something to do to make money and kill time inbetween manta pops, I would instead bring some pops for Phantom Worm, myself. I still occasionally see RMTs (if they're not RMTs they have very RMT-like names) there soloing the thing, so it can't be that hard.

If you have to go to Rabao to fix the rod though, you are going to find the Ebisu quest even worse, unless you buy all your fish.



That's theorycrafting which I've never really seen to be true (Black Sole bite rate has never really changed for me, there are still good days and bad days, and it still also depends on how many people are fishing them at the same time), and it wouldn't affect you in your case anyway because you can't go over the cap for Cave Cherax.

Edited, Nov 24th 2009 8:46pm by Fynlar

I've personally taken a mule out to V. Inlet when trumpet shells were introduced and were nice gil. I even borrowed a Lu Rod for him. And with his 8 fishing skill it was impossible to reel in trumpet shells.

As you know, trumpet shells are not difficult. They are a bit slow to drain, but easy to fight. I don't think I have ever had the time warning come up while fishing them on my main. On that mule with level 8 fishing skill I couldn't get a single one below 40%. This was well before the nerf to pre level 20 fishing.

Is there a difference in bite rate? I dunno. I hit 100 on the old system so I never got a chance to test. Is there a difference in 100 skill and 96 skill? Maybe not, if so it is seemingly imperceptible. But to say skill means nothing when one of my characters can easily reel in a fish that the other cannot dent is misleading. It means something.......unless, of course, the lu shang testimonial is giving my main super powers.

I hate to mention this but the OP is right about one thing.

Fishing skillups came far more frequently under the old fishing system than the "new" one, which IS significantly more than a year old.

And no mater how you count, skillups / time or /fish they came faster.

The advantage of the new system is far more catches / time, meaning more GIl / fishing session.

OP, there is a catch limit of 200 fish a day for characters L 20 & up.

I have to agree with fishing skill bearing little importance beyond two things: 1) The ability to get your fishing guild items (for use, collection, or just completionism).
2) Getting better bite rates on higher levelled fish.

Number 1 is a bit obvious, you need the fishing skill to unlock the various items the fishing guild has available. Number 2 I will explain though. The example was made that higher fishing skill did not see a better bite rate of Black Sole. Let's take this as a given for now and I'll explain my own theory as to why later. However, I'd like to put in another example.

I used to fish on the ferry for a few years for Nebimonites and Noble Ladies before I had a Lushang. This was a few years ago when the fishing change was made that you had to fight the fish to catch it. Now, when my level was in the teens which is when I started doing this (I had gotten it to the teens prior to this change fishing for moats) I would get more bite rates from Nebimonites than Noble Ladies. I would notice the amount of Nebimonites I had was far more than the Noble Ladies were. As I continued fishing for my Lushang in Altepa and slowly skilling on Sandfish at the same time, I'd go to the ferry once in a while to gain some gil fishing up the Nebis and Noble Ladies. What I noticed was that as my levels increased that the ratio from Noble Ladies to Nebimonites started shrinking. I still caught far more Nebis than Noble Ladies, but I was starting to catch far more Noble Ladies than I was before. This in turn reduced the amount of Nebis I caught as they were replaced by the Noble Ladies.

Alright, so what does this mean? My theory is that the higher your fishing skill, the higher the chance you'll catch a higher level fish instead of a lower level fish. Now let's go back to the Black Sole example. I also didn't notice a change in Black Sole from when I started with my Lushangs in the 50s to the 90s (I fished during the inflation period where Black Sole stacks went for 70k which was good enough incentive for long fishing outings). My hypothesis is that Black Sole would not have a noticeable increased bite rate because a) the fish level is very high that any change would not be noticeable and b) Black Sole has no other small fish to compete with (in Qufim anyways, I don't fish in Jeuno). So Fishing Skill really won't help out with Black Sole too much if my theory is correct. However, it would help slightly if you're fishing a high level fish with other low level fish in the area.

My problem wasnt really the number of fish i was catching. I was catching TONS of fish. The issue was I was getting like 1 skillup of .1 every...50-75 fish. which is rediculous for the level i was at fishing. But since then ive put fishing off >_> gonna just level and say screw it till later.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2009 9:42am by Gokage

 
Char Info: 
Kirra 
Pandemonium 
Mithra 
 Thief          50 
 Warrior        41 
 Ninja          38 
 Monk           20 
-------- 
Crafts 
 Woodworking    72 
 Alchemy        60 
 Smithing       60 
 Clothcraft     60 
 Cooking        20 
 Leathercraft   17 
 Fishing        13 
 Bonecraft      08