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So you wanna be a Fisherman eh?Follow

#27 Feb 04 2004 at 6:08 AM Rating: Default
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For all those flavour of the month idiots who think fishing is the way to get rich quick it isnt.

Fishing is 20 times slower to level up if not more than other crafts.

Moat carp is the main money winner for a long time and with more people fishing the prices will drop.

If you just want to make gil then lvl a thief to 15 or higher.

If you want to spend hundreds of hours clicking alt+1 and enter as well as getting woodworking to a very high level and cooking to a moderate lvl then become a fisherman.
#28 Feb 04 2004 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
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I have to once again disagree with your thesis -_-; The number or nibbles has very little (and I might be as bold to say none whatsoever) influence on your current skill level. Nibbles are a lot more dependant on the time if day, the lunar cycle, current day and weather effect.

Best times to fish are during Dusk and Dawn. Night is okay. Day sucks. Better time = more nibbles.

Full Moon and New Moon causes more nibbles.

(The people of the fishing guild even tell you to pay attention to these)

Waterday increases nibbles, as does rainfall. Fireday decreases nibbles and causes more Rusty catches.

Rainfall causes a surge in the number of nibbles. Unfortunately it cannot rain everywhere. I assume Heat causes less nibbles as well, but since I'm not aiming to get less catches I haven't tried fishing in these areas. (Valkurm and areas in Elshimo get Heat).

You can gain skill from fish that are high above your skill level. I've gained rapid skill from 13 to 16 by catching fish that were 28 levels above me ~ and higher (@lev13 catching Gugru Tuna and Bluetails on the ferry -- ill advised to do so, your precious Mithran or Composite can break). If you -really- are not capable of gaining skill from a fish it will say "You have lost your catch due to your lack of skill".

If your hypothesis on rodbreaking is correct it would mean that wasting Clothespoles or Carbons with Troutballs for those Catfish would be a viable skillgain option. I can't however confirm or deny if actual rodbreaking does increase the chance to skillgain as with my guides I've focussed on Rod Safe Fishing. If it is however true, there might even be an increased chance of skillgain if there is a -possibility- of breaking your rod and that actually breaking it adds another bonus. (This would explain the fast skillgain I myself and other Ferry fishers have gotten).

I used to think that one-use bait was better than reusable lures, but I'm not sure anymore. Bait usually attracts more -different- kinds of fish, which means more chance due to more options. In general you want to avoid catching the trivial fish however (except Moats), which means picking a different bait/lure more suited to catching the fish of skill you're aiming for instead. My current experiences are that there's actually little difference between the two. The only exception to this rule is the Rogue Rig, which seems to have a big catching penalty.
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#29 Feb 04 2004 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm prepared to sink a lot of time into this.

I decided that things weren't working out in the Bastok Sewers, so I hawked my bamboo rods and little worms and hopped a chocobo to Windurst. I got there at midnight on a full moon, joined the guild, got image support, and donned my full fishing gear. Within an hour, I'd caught about 13 Bastore Sardines, 9 Quus, and got my skill up to 2.8.

Woo! Things are looking up!

I also figured out the JP player deal. Seems there was a GM in the area, and he was telling people to come see. I also dared my roommate to slap a GM. That would make you such a legend! Think about it. If anyone sees a GM, they run around telling their friends anyway. Imagine if someone ran up and SLAPPED a GM!

Edited, Wed Feb 4 10:50:58 2004 by scriptkeeper
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#30 Feb 04 2004 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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"I have to once again disagree with your thesis -_-; The number or nibbles has very little (and I might be as bold to say none whatsoever) influence on your current skill level. Nibbles are a lot more dependant on the time if day, the lunar cycle, current day and weather effect."



You are intitled to your opiinion. My hypothosis about skill gains has nothing to do on WHY or when fish bite though.

There is a numbers game behind gaining skill at fishing, nothing in the computer world is truly random. And although fishing is about "luck" one way or another, if you fish long enough you will get gains no matter how "bad" your luck it.

You make your "rolls" when you fish it is very possible to get a full point in 10 mins or it can take 2 hours.

People ask how you get skill gains in fishign break it down for them in a simple easy to understand statement. You get too complicated people get bored half way down the page and throw in the towel.

My theory explains why I believe it is best to fish with the appropriate rods vs your LVL and what you are fishing. For instance....

If someome takes a composite pole and goes fishing for a moat carp...(with a skill under 11)

If he/she gets a bite but lets say they lose the catch because the fish was too small. If they are .2 from the next full point of fishing they roughly have a 1% chance to gain skill at fishing. If they have less than .8 to the next full point they have roughly a 5% chance to gain skill in fishing. So they get a bite and the game makes it "rolls" in the mathmatical equation used to determine rather or not the person recieves a skill gain.

Now you can increase your luck by fishing with the appropriate rod. Lets say another fisherman uses a Carbon rod to fish for moat carps. Lets say he gets a bite from a carp. He has the same base chance to recieve a skill gain as the fellow with the composite. But instead of losing the carp becuase the fish was to small lets say he lands it successfully. He/she will get roguhly a +5% chance to gain skill in fishing. (1-5% base + 5% for catching the fish)

Overtime a person taking chances and using appropriate equipment will in theory gain skill faster than a person "playing it safe"

So use the small rods for small fish folks, don't be scared, it's a natural part of the LVLin process. Your skill gains will be faster because of it. Not to mention the fish you catch as oppossed to those you lose for "too small" messages will more than pay for your lost rods.
#31 Feb 04 2004 at 2:33 PM Rating: Default
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The equipment theory makes sense, the "correct" rod probably can effect the rate of skill gain. However, the %'s offered in the guide for skill gain appear to be completely arbitrary.

Oh and in Sarutabaruta the fish is called Bastore Bream, not Brine.
#32 Feb 04 2004 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you so much Wolf,
I have been fishing since i started the game but was content on fishing for moat carp and yellowglobes(alchemy lvling right now)only, i decided yesterday while fishing for 8 hours (skill went up to 12 in the 8hr span, from 11) that i was going to start concentrating on the places to fish and actually skillup from now on.. i get on the forum for the first time in a week or so and BAM a awesome guide that was just what i wanted.
Well in 2 weeks i should have hit 40+ or higher (hopefully) ^_^

You rock wolf again, thanks for all the awesome guides.

If i had the money to powerlvl alchemy or woodworking i would write a definitive guide along the lines of yours.


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#33 Feb 04 2004 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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so sry T_T

dblPOST

Edited, Wed Feb 4 21:25:38 2004 by smOkt
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#34 Feb 05 2004 at 1:52 AM Rating: Default
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You're right on the Giant Catfish... i've caught 40 of them so far, and i haven't gotten even a single skill point up. Not even 0.1. I don't know what's going on, but im' heading to Jugner tomorrow like you suggested.
#35 Feb 05 2004 at 2:00 AM Rating: Default
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I just read your 'event hypothesis' and i have to ask, where the **** are you getting these numbers from?! Are you having so many rods and line breaking that you're able to record them and find whether there are any statistical significances? I'm assuming you would need literally a record of thousands to be able to differentiate between a standard deviation and statistic significance of 5% that you claim.

Just because you're sharing how you've leveled in a skill doesn't give you any validity in making these outrageous claims.

#36 Feb 05 2004 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Where can I catch Pipira? What Rod / Bait works best?
#37 Feb 05 2004 at 3:53 AM Rating: Good
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I love words like outrageous claims and arbitrary. Prehaps you guys should pick up a dictionary sometime and read the definition of a Hypothesis.

For the past 3 weeks I have used what I consider appropriate equipment for skill gaining. In that time I have broken my fair share of rods and lines. When writing a guide I keep a complete record of events that happen when I find something suspisous about it.

For instance I fish for 2 hours to gain the final .1 to next fishing LVL, I snap a rod and instantly gain a .2 and my skill. So I started tracking it.

My estimates are conservative if anything. The worst run I have had to date is 10 line breaks to a skill gain. So I simply take the 100% fiqure and divide it by 10 and well simply get 10%. Instead of bashing it or claiming it to be "outrageous" perhaps you should do your part and seek to disprove or backup such statements. While you are LVLing at the lake keep track of line breaks and rod breaks and note how many times you gain skill during such an event. To do so you will hafta lay down your Composite Rod if you are doing like just about everyone else and use Carbon as I suggest.

Fishing gear has an optimum LVL for usage. Items such as the Rouge's Rig requires a LVL 51 to use and at this LVL will catch Moat carps in 3's. But hay, it's ultimately your choice if you wanna use a composite rod and fish with a skill LVL of 11 for moat carps one at a time knock yourself out. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to accept my guide as the end-all be-all of fishing guides.

Do yourself a favor, don't be a troll and simply come here and claim my fiqures are "outrageous" or "arbitrary" just because your Primus Guide or guide you bought off ebay doesn't mention anything about it. Test it and add to the pool of knowledge, it's what all the great scientists do. Hypothesis >>> Theory >>> Law

Edited, Thu Feb 5 04:17:25 2004 by Wolfsfable
#38 Feb 05 2004 at 4:15 AM Rating: Good
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Ganthrinor sorry m8 havent fished much for pirana. I hear they love to break poles. But I have also heard they like minnows and meatballs and they like to hang out in Windurst Woods or Walls. GL man!
#39 Feb 05 2004 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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What macros do you use for fishing?
#40 Feb 05 2004 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Wolfsable: That's great man... I finally got my fishing to 6, but I don't think I spend near the time you do at it. Honestly, I've levelled everything off of moat carp so far ^^

But sardines.... hmmmmm...

Any idea how often a glass fiber rod and sabiki rig would lose me the rig or rod trying them for Sardines at skill level 6?

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#41 Feb 05 2004 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Just my $0.02 worth, but here goes.

If this is going to be your tradeskill, your first major purchase should be a composite rod. It runs about 8-9k at my AH, but it's worth it. Get a carbon rod too if you can afford it, but you can get by just fine on a composite.

Target fish that are 10 to 15 points above your skill level. Moat carp are fine to start with, but they skill out at 11. Once you hit 8 or so buy a Fly Lure and head to East Ron for Cheval Salmon and Shining Trout.

Once you hit Fishing 15, head to West Ron or Port San with a Sinking Minnow Lure and go for Giant Catfish. These catfish will take you into your mid 20s, and sell to any vendor for about 200g each. If you're in Port San, there's a vendor who will buy them in the Rusty Anchor Inn right there in the port.

At this point, you should start weaning off the moat carp as your source of income. They are small-time, you can do better.

Once you're in your mid 20's, take your composite rod and sinking minnow and head over to windhurst. If you take the ferry out of selbina, go ahead and grab a few extra sinking minnow lures from the shop on the boat. Head out to the cliffs in West Sara. You'll be after Orge Eels and if you get lucky a few Gold Lobsters. This should drag you up into your early 30s, which is where I am now.

Here, I've been switching out between the cliffs in W Sara and the lake in E Sara. I get more skill raises at the cliffs, but if I need fast cash I pull monkie-onkies out of the lake. Btw, if you use W Sara, you can zone right into Port Windhurst where the fishers guild is located. If you use E Sara, you got to run all the way across windy woods and most of the way across windy port to get to th fisher guildshop.

By this point your Moat Carp days should be a distant memory, they're a waste of time from here on out.
Moat Carp=3-4k/stack, or 250-333/fish. Lobster=400+/fish, Monkie-onkies=800+/fish. Oh, and in Windhurst, Giant catfish sell for 300/fish instead of the 200/fish I got in Sandoria.

I'm not sure what I'll do after this. I'll probably skill-up on the cliff until the I get above 35, then Monkies until 45. I'll let you know though.

Here's a couple tools that'll make life easier:

BlackenedForge has an excellent guide listing fish by location and lure. http://www.blackenedforge.com/fishing/

The Osakana Database. Lists fish, bait, location, and if your rod will break. http://www.fishermanrods.net/database_e.cfm

The fishing database at ffvault.ign.com (which for some reason is down this morning). Gives you a list of fish, their skill level, and approx sale price to the Fisher guildshops.

Good luck.
#42 Feb 05 2004 at 10:09 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
While you are LVLing at the lake keep track of line breaks and rod breaks and note how many times you gain skill during such an event. To do so you will hafta lay down your Composite Rod if you are doing like just about everyone else and use Carbon as I suggest.


First, I do believe there is such a thing as appropriate gear for a fishing level, and that gear can affect catch rate and skill gain. However, I do not believe your numbers. I have 55.4 fishing, and do not have anywhere near the same results as you have. 1% and .5% are very high numbers. I have recorded my results in batches of 500 and my numbers are closer to .01%.

I think you are placing way too much emphasis on "skill gain by line breaking" or whatever it is you're advocating instead of "skill gain by whats on the other end of the line".

I am not trolling, I am simply disagreeing with you. A great scientist can accept that the results from one single series of tests may be abnormal.

Quote:
Items such as the Rouge's Rig requires a LVL 51 to use and at this LVL will catch Moat carps in 3's. But hay, it's ultimately your choice if you wanna use a composite rod and fish with a skill LVL of 11 for moat carps one at a time knock yourself out. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to accept my guide as the end-all be-all of fishing guides.


Have you tested this? Where did this come from? I have tested this and my results are in another thread. This statement about the Rogue Rig is not true.

Fishing is complicated. There are probably a dozen variables and numbers that we can only guess at. I applaud any attempt at trying to figure out the numbers, but I will view them skeptically.

Edited, Thu Feb 5 10:41:56 2004 by HappyGrifter
#43 Feb 05 2004 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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Test it and add to the pool of knowledge, it's what all the great scientists do. Hypothesis >>> Theory >>> Law


Great scientists do not go from step 1 to steps 2 or 3 without having the claim verified by multiple sources. Only when it is consistently replicable by other people is it accepted.

It is up to the scientist presenting the hypothesis to make sure these verifications are carried out. Why? Because anyone can come out and present a hypothesis as fact. I can come out and say I got 60 fishing skill on bamboo rods and lugworms in Bastok. Does that mean I can demand my hypothesis be accepted as true until someone fishes for a few hundred hours with a bamboo pole and lugworms to disprove me? I doubt such a system would work very well.

If you want to be truly scientific about it, you would have had to post hard numbers. How many total casts? How many of each result? How many skill gains on each of those results?

The problem is, going by trends a person observes without numerical data presents the problem of 1) when you're looking for a trend, you tend to see things that may just be statistical anomolies and not realize it and 2) when a person develops a hypothesis, the same person performing the experiment is usually more concerned with proving his hypothesis than looking at the data objectively (bias).

These mistakes happen in the the actual scientific community, so don't claim it couldn't happen in a far less controlled environment.

If you truly want to further fishing knowledge out there, provide solid raw data and ask other people to assist in verifying claims on an objective level.

#44 Feb 05 2004 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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I will not ask people to crunch my data to prove my Hypothesis and AGAIN I state that it is what I have oberserved. On more than serveral occassions I have gained skill using the methods I have posted. It's not a whim or a fulk I can assure you. Try it instead of bashing.

It's not sepecific, I will not sit here and post every single piece of data I have collected over the past weeks of fishing. I will post what I believe to be true. These numbers are already compiled, you can accept them and use them during your fishing gains or you can move along.

Reading Comprehension is severly lacking in some peoples posts and the numbers they toss out are just plain STUPID.

Lets take Happy's number for instance...

He states his figure more along the lines of .01% Thanks Happy I have not laughed that hard in a long time. I sure am glad you are not in charge at SE. You number of .01% suggests that you have a 1/10,000 chance to gain skill if you get a bite message. If this figure was even REMOTELY possible we would all have Lu Shangs before we even reach LVL 1 in fishing. Nice one dumbass.

I will not bore the class with worthless information. The numbers have have come up with have been compiled. So when you are skilling up take note how many bites it takes to get .1-.2 in fishing. My numbers suggest 5/100 and 1/100 chance depending on where your skill lies. Those number hold water thus far 33 Fishing Skill. Or you can be a dumbass like the rest of the folks that don't seem to know what a Hypothesis is. The word MEANS for you to test it. I want you too PLEASE TEST IT. And on the same token take your *** elsewhere if you wanna troll or come here and try to tell me I am full of **** without presenting facts or numbers to back it up.

Move along trolls nothing to see here.


Edited, Thu Feb 5 15:25:59 2004 by Wolfsfable
#45 Feb 05 2004 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfsfable, take a deep breath, you seem to be getting worked up... if I am wrong, sorry.

Like the excellent job you did on the cooking guide, you did a good job here... are their holes in the guide? Sure, but overall it's a great guide. My example (tied to the cooking guide) has to do with the steps... Carrot Broth to Sliced Sardines did not work as well for me as it did for you... I used Hard Boiled Eggs to bridge the gap from 3 to 6 or 7 (I was in Bostok, no Advanced aid from the guild), but your guide got me from skill 0.0 to 10.5 (so far) because I had some direction to help me plan with.

In other words folks, there are many ways to get from point A to point B here, Wolfsfable has furnished us with a guide that helps, for some (My self included) this guide has helped, but it in no way means this is the only way. Wolfsfable has shown us what worked for him, he lets us know, so we can plan for ourselves.

In my case, I do not care if I get 1 imp in 100 casts or 1 in 20, but that I am at least in the ball park... as an example, I can fish for Sardines, Moat Carp or Crayfish with my fishing skill (2) and not have to wonder why even if I have the great setup I need to catch an "Emperor Fish" that I do not have a snowballs chance in **** of catching one because I know more then I did before I read this guide... I also know that if I plan accordingly, I will someday be reeling in those Emperor Fish... not today and more then likely not tomorrow, but someday.

In accordance with a Statistics Class I took in Collage a few years back, to make numbers more accurate because of the failure to get a complete statistical sample with all required factors, please adjust the samples taken to reflect the unknown variables that are not reported in that sample... (Yes, add error to make the sample say what you want it to thus being more accurate).
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#46 Feb 05 2004 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Hamfast, wot in teh heck is that in your sig?? ahhhh!!


Anyway, back to topic, how did this thread get to be so mathematical? :( My uncle has/had his own fishing show on TV and I don't think he'd be where he is by calculating the % of times he catches fish to the .000 decimal place. Take it easy! While I'd love to be soaring up in fishing skill I still take it as a relaxing game pasttime. I went to Jugner this morning with only 12.8 fishing and came out with 14.2 after only an hour! And I didn't use the recommended rod either. My point is, take a cool down and enjoy yourself more. Wolf's guide is a GUIDE, not a manual.
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#47 Feb 05 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Default
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Its probably best that you wait until you are an experienced fisherman before writing a guide and making hypotheses.

Because lets face it you are off the mark on a lot of things.

BTW from what i have heard the rogue rig is only good for rusty items but I havent used it yet so I cant confirm anything, just like most people here cant talk about how they will start catching 3 moat carp a cast when they hit lvl51.
#48 Feb 05 2004 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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What are some important fishing marco's? I plan to start up fishing soon. thx.
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#49 Feb 05 2004 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Man, 30-32 was painful in W Saruta.... But once I hit 32 I landed 4 or 5 fishin a row :) Lvl 40 here I come!
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#50 Feb 05 2004 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Not even gonna start with you Germs, I'll fix your wagon soon enough.

As for macros I have 2 I use for fishing the first one is a simple one:

/fish

The second one will change as you gain promotions in fishing. For each promotion you gain in fishing your recast time is reduced by 1 second. For now this might not seem like a lot but over time, man it really starts to add up.

This macro will be as follows:

/wait 14
/fish

As you get your promotions at the 8's...8,18,28,38,48,58,68,78,88 reduce the wait by one second. Right now mine is currently at a:

/wait 11
/fish

To start fishing face the water in the area you wish to fish in and use the /fish macro. Once you reel in your rod wait for your compass to re-appear and use the /wait macro as soon as it does. It will wait the appropriate time and recast your rod. If you run out of bait or hafta fight a mob you can use the /fish macro to re-start the cycle over again.

GL m8

Edited, Thu Feb 5 23:24:31 2004 by Wolfsfable
#51 Feb 06 2004 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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My fishing macro is pretty similar...

/clock on (gives the time and moon phase information)
/wait 14 (I never bothered going back and changing the delay)
/echo ............
/fish

If I'm using bait instead of a lure, I add this line to the beginning...

/equip ammo "NameOfBait"

This way I don't have to keep track of how long it'll be before I can fish again. I pop the macro to start fishing and as soon as I stop, I can pop the macro again.

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