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#1 Nov 16 2010 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
Action Bar Set Up

Light Thrust|Life Surge|Skewer II|Tranquility|Second Wind|Stoneskin|
Feint|Invigorate|Leg Sweep|Bloodbath|Cure|Shock Spikes
Peirce|Speed Surge|Moonrise|

I set it up on multiple bars to minimize the amount of moving around the bar I have to do. I tweak it here and there, I toss in Comrade in Arms for some parties. Typically I work out with the other lancer (if there is one) with one of us using Life Surge the other Speed Surge and Comrade in Arms. The set up is largely for solo/small group play which is the majority of what I do in the game.

Gear

Iron Lance- Currently set up for a feint build, which the lance is awesome for but will likely switch to the R29 Harpoon when Accuracy gets tweaked.
Skull Eye (Patch Black) +1- Sure it's higher rank but at my current level I still get all the STR which is really what I wear it for.
Bronze Haubergeon
Dodoskin Mitts (Black)
Dodoskin Skirt
Bronze Sollerets
4 Silver Rings- I adjust the number equipped so that I get as many feints as possible whilst still gaining TP on average.

I find that a feint build helps when fighting harder stuff atleast with accuracy as it is currently. Again after they tweak accuracy in then ext few updates I will see whether I want to switch to an Accuracy build with a harpoon. Any suggestions or questions are welcome and really the reason I am posting this. It has worked fairly well so far but I am hoping that someone might have some improvements or take something from it to improve their build.

Stats

STR-80
DEX-80
VIT-80
INT-26
MND-40
PIE-26

At my current rank I was starting to see diminishing returns for Vit so I figured dumping points to get STR, DEX and VIT much higher would be pointless at the moment.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 10:45am by Manosuke
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#2 Nov 16 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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Good info Manosuke. I'll share my basic LNC strategy @ R24.

I assign all of my weapon skills to the primary action bar. That consists of:
Light Thrust|Pierce|Feint|Doomspike|Moonrise

I assign all of my "buffs" to the second action bar, and assign all of them to macros so that I don't have to switch between action bars during a fight...I just press alt+#. That consists of:
Cure|Second Wind|Raging Strike|Ferocity|Life Surge|Invigorate|Bloodbath

I trade Life surge for speed surge if there is another LNC in the party and Comrade in arms as well just as you described.

Gear:
Head - Skull Eye Patch (Black) +1 - I use this for the STR just as you described, plus its easier to find a leather worker to repair this item in my linkshell than an armorer to repair a bronze Coif.
Body - Blackened Scale Mail - It is slightly better than Bronze Hauby @ R24, plus it is more unique.
Legs - Cotton Trousers - I think there are valid arguments as to what is the better gear, trousers or skirts...But I'm a dude so...
Feet - Bronze Sollerets - I'm thinking about switching to the Leather Jackboots for the EVA bonus as I'm pumping my DEX recently but I'll explain that in my stats section. Also I'm trying to go with an all black look.
Arms - Leather Wrist Guards (green) - levequest reward, haven't found anything better.
Waist - Leather Tool Belt - this is really a crafter item, but until I can find something better for LNC I'll stick with it.
Accessories - 4x Silver Rings

Stats:
STR - 75 - Obvious
VIT - 59 - Obvious
DEX - 64 - I've found that my hit rate for weapon skills goes up dramatically when I pump dex. I have no concrete data to support this theory, but I find weapon accuracty to be important for regular attack hit rate, but dex to be more important for weapon skill hit rate. I've lately been pumping Dex. I will likely bring both Dex and STR to 80 before spending 3 pts in any stat.
INT - 13 - Obvious
MND - 29 - I'm pumping MND to at least 40 because it's cheap, it will give me more MP which I intend to use and I'm tired of Imps one shotting me with their magic attacks.
PIE - 12 - Obvious
#3 Nov 16 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
Good call on posting stats I should have thought of that... Edited the first post to include mine.
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#4 Nov 16 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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It's really hard to critique "builds" in FFXIV, since it's... really generic and too early on. I mean, what can I tell you, "You should wear X instead of Y", when we don't even know if strength from gear contributes to +str?

One thing I can say for #1 poster is- Try eating +Accuracy foods (Grilled Trout and Carp), and for #2 poster is get Doomspike off your bar, it's trash. And boost your VIT, it's the most important stat in the entire game.


The only thing I guess we can really comment on is rotation. Just because it's on your bar doesn't mean that you're actually using the skill a lot. What's your guys' rotations? Do you use heavy thrust or light thrust? Is that your solo bar or your party bar?


Edited, Nov 16th 2010 1:23pm by Meowshi

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 1:26pm by Meowshi
#5 Nov 16 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Quick question: Why is Vit the most important stat? Also do you mean Vit from stat pts or +Vit from gear?

Currently R27
Action Bar:

1-5: Light Thrust | Feint | Pierce | Heavy Thurst | Second Wind
6-0: Bloodbath | Trammel | SkewerII | Leg Sweep | Invigorate (to see CD)
Alt 1-5: Life Surge | Invigorate | Cure | Shock Spikes | Stoneskin

Heavy Thrust, Feint, and Trammel make up the majority of my SP parties. Twice the chance of SP with their debuffs.

Stats (pulled from Lode, pretty sure I logged off naked right before maintenance):

Str - 86 (86)
Vit - 60 (60)
Dex - 71 (71)
Int - 13 (13)
Mnd - 14 (14) <- Will work on that
Pie - 15 (15)

Gear:

Weapon: Iron Lance +1 | Iron Guisarme
Head: Vintage Celata
Body: Ripped Haubergeon
Gloves: Leather Armguards (Green) - matches ripped
Belt: Tarred Leather Satchel
Legs: Dodoskin Skirt
Feet: Leather Leggings (Green) - matches ripped
Rings: 4x Silver Ring or 4x Sunstone Ring
#6 Nov 16 2010 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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VIT is the most important stat because the apparent effects of +strength and +dex are minimal at best. A long time ago I've heard people say it was something like 20 strength = +6% damage on a marauder. +6% DPS is good, but in my opinion, not as good as +VIT. On a Lancer, 20 VIT = an extra hit, maybe two from a monster. That's the difference between life and death. Death debuff will kill your SP gains much more than anything else in this entire game, especially considering that during the time you run back from the aetherial gate --> camp, you're getting 0 SP. And that Raise gives death debuff on revive. +6% Damage maybe give you like 3 extra SP on damage procs.

What I would say to you is to get Ferocity and Raging Strike on your bar. It is completely possible to do a Heavy thrust (Miss) --> Ferocity --> Raging Strike --> Feint for massive SP procs, and they use extremely little stamina for a 2x-3x hit.


Edited, Nov 16th 2010 1:54pm by Meowshi
#7 Nov 16 2010 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Just to clarify:

Vit increased via points = +Def and +Hp
+Vit from items = +Def only

Right? I've been mainly focusing on +Hp items (Leggings, Armguards, Skirts)
Would you recommend Trousers (+1 Str, +3 Vit) over Skirts (+Hp, +Str)?

In my current SP group I'm getting 400-500sp per mob, due to the Bind/Heavy (~110 SP each proc) from Heavy Thrust/Trammel...much to the dismay of the MRD in the group ^^ maybe it's just my lag but I find the time to activate Raging/Ferocity I could have attacked instead.

#8 Nov 16 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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Pondering wrote:
Just to clarify:

Vit increased via points = +Def and +Hp
+Vit from items = +Def only

Right? I've been mainly focusing on +Hp items (Leggings, Armguards, Skirts)
Would you recommend Trousers (+1 Str, +3 Vit) over Skirts (+Hp, +Str)?

In my current SP group I'm getting 400-500sp per mob, due to the Bind/Heavy (~110 SP each proc) from Heavy Thrust/Trammel...much to the dismay of the MRD in the group ^^ maybe it's just my lag but I find the time to activate Raging/Ferocity I could have attacked instead.



I can't say anything about gear. Are you sure that +Vit from items is +def only? Is it shown on the attributes&gear page, or is it just some innate speculation?

I had the same speculation, but it may have been just denial that SE would forget to add +gear attributes. After all, it seems that the -5 +5 traits don't do any -5ing at all (Mind directly influences healing potency, and -mind didn't affect it in a negative way according to another poster)

Personally, I would just go for what looks the best!

And you would really only use ferocity / raging either before battle, or when you're out of stamina. Either way, with things like Invigorate, (Comrade if you ever use it), and Heavy thrust using so much stamina, You'd use it while waiting for your stamina to recuperate.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 2:08pm by Meowshi
#9 Nov 16 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I used to use Trousers with +3 Vit, when I took them off to repair I noticed my max Hp didn't change, asked my tank to test his too. It shows up on the Attributes page but doesn't change Hp...I did some research and found:

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/14990-point-allotment-caps/

Proven:
- Race, Class, PLvL do not affect caps.
- Items do not count towards cap.
- VIT/MND from gear does not affect HP/MP (does affect like Cure)
- Elemental Resistances cannot go beyond 184 (wont allow you)


Confirming my theory.

So basically, would the extra Def (from Vit?) on Trousers outweigh the +Hp/Str on Skirts?
#10 Nov 16 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Pondering wrote:
I used to use Trousers with +3 Vit, when I took them off to repair I noticed my max Hp didn't change, asked my tank to test his too. It shows up on the Attributes page but doesn't change Hp...I did some research and found:

http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/14990-point-allotment-caps/

Proven:
- Race, Class, PLvL do not affect caps.
- Items do not count towards cap.
- VIT/MND from gear does not affect HP/MP (does affect like Cure)
- Elemental Resistances cannot go beyond 184 (wont allow you)


Confirming my theory.

So basically, would the extra Def (from Vit?) on Trousers outweigh the +Hp/Str on Skirts?


I wouldn't bother min maxing +def from +Vit. The main thing you want is the insane amount of +HP that you get from vit, which is kind of absent in getting gear.

So I would go with Strength = Dexterity = HP > Vit > MP > Else, or something like that at least

Either way you're looking at a negligable amount of damage/strength by doing this. I think rotation is a much bigger issue than the nitpicky "Which stat should I get 2 more of"

and just because VIT/MND from gear does not affect HP/MP, doesn't mean they add the extra +Defense right? How much defense do you get from 1 vit anyways? +1 VIT = +1 DEF? Is DEF softcapped by levels too? There's a lot of mechanical questions to answer too

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 2:14pm by Meowshi
#11 Nov 16 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll check this evening how much Def +Vit on items grants. I'd wager that it's as negligible as the Dmg/Acc from Str/Dex.

Item | Otp.Rank | Def | M.Def | Evad | Resil | +Hp | +Str | +Vit | Elem.Res
Dodoskin Skirt | 27 | 60 | 20 | 22 | 38 | +20 | +3 | 0 | +17
Cotton Trousers | 28 | 64 | 20 | 19 | 39 | 0 | +1 | +3 | +15

No idea what Resilience does - akin to WoW reducing crits?
Basically I figured, more Hp keeps you alive for physical and magical damage vs. just physical for Def.
#12 Nov 16 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Pondering wrote:
I'll check this evening how much Def +Vit on items grants. I'd wager that it's as negligible as the Dmg/Acc from Str/Dex.

Item | Otp.Rank | Def | M.Def | Evad | Resil | +Hp | +Str | +Vit | Elem.Res
Dodoskin Skirt | 27 | 60 | 20 | 22 | 38 | +20 | +3 | 0 | +17
Cotton Trousers | 28 | 64 | 20 | 19 | 39 | 0 | +1 | +3 | +15

No idea what Resilience does - akin to WoW reducing crits?
Basically I figured, more Hp keeps you alive for physical and magical damage vs. just physical for Def.


The main problem is surviving Enemy WS + A few hits because your healers are sleeping due to adds.

Like I roll with 100 VIT on my lancer. An eft can hit me twice-three times (Depending on position, like from behind + no parries) + Lightning storm, THEN I die.

I hardly ever die on efts. Even when we get multiple adds. If I die, most likely the entire party died.

I would rather have this big wall of safety than an extra 3 damage on my attacks. What I'm trying to get at here is- Physical defense isn't the big issue here. It's also the magic damage component of it. Especially since you go to raptors, and 100% of the damage you'll be taking there is magic damage


Plus, if you have a sh*t ton of Vit, you can be the initiator of efts. While I might only be able to take 3 attacks + lightning storm, without lightning storm I can take a hell of a lot more. This means I can get the garunteed 100% WS (Then again, efts are pretty aware of their surroundings, even if they don't agro right away)

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 2:31pm by Meowshi

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 2:33pm by Meowshi
#13 Nov 16 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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On efts I die when Shell drops (healer wants everyone in front for Aoe healing SP heh), but then again so does most of the group. My baseline Mnd compounds the issue.
#14 Nov 16 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Pondering wrote:
On efts I die when Shell drops (healer wants everyone in front for Aoe healing SP heh), but then again so does most of the group. My baseline Mnd compounds the issue.


When I was getting to the later ranks (R35+) as a conjurer (for efts), I ran without shell solo/duo heal with vit capped. If everyone capped their vit, it shouldn't be a problem. However, people don't cap vit for some unknown reason.

As a lancer, our VIT to HP ratios are a LOT better than conjurers. At R30 lancer I have 1570HP, that's enough to eat a lightning bolt, even if shell falls off. If everyone did this, nobody would ever die to efties. They're too cute to kill people anyways.

Edited, Nov 16th 2010 2:39pm by Meowshi
#15 Nov 16 2010 at 1:58 PM Rating: Decent
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To quote a great movie: After a non-shell lightning I'll be "the smartest man on the cinder" heheh
#16 Nov 16 2010 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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OK, one question...

Quote:
and for #2 poster is get Doomspike off your bar, it's trash.


Why is doomspike trash? (I'm really asking, not flaming)
I put Doomspike on because until rank 24 it was the largest peak damage skill I had. I've only spent about 15 minutes in-game since I dinged 24 so I haven't tried Skewer II. Would you recommend Trammel because of its high damage/TP ratio but lower peak damage? Is Skewer II that much better than Doomspike?

Also, I think I may trade out my trousers for the dodo skin skirt... Seems like I want the +STR on items and +VIT in my attribute points.
#17 Nov 16 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Good
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jonno1482 wrote:
OK, one question...

Quote:
and for #2 poster is get Doomspike off your bar, it's trash.


Why is doomspike trash? (I'm really asking, not flaming)
I put Doomspike on because until rank 24 it was the largest peak damage skill I had. I've only spent about 15 minutes in-game since I dinged 24 so I haven't tried Skewer II. Would you recommend Trammel because of its high damage/TP ratio but lower peak damage? Is Skewer II that much better than Doomspike?

Also, I think I may trade out my trousers for the dodo skin skirt... Seems like I want the +STR on items and +VIT in my attribute points.


Doomspike is trash because it doesn't give any SP compared to your other skills.

The way SP gains work for lancer is you get

1) Damage SP
2) Debuff SP

Most of Lancer skills have debuffs on them. Doomspike, the largest TP intensive move lancers have, does not have a debuff. Why spend 3k on a doomspike for 200SP when you can spend 3k on three Moonrises to get you (100 + 100) x 3 SP?

Trammel is good because it's a 500TP move that rewards SP very frequently. It has a debuff which procs often (Not 100% like moonrise), but that's made up by the lowered TP cost. Damage is nothing in this game- if you want damage, throw up punishing barbs and things will die practically instantly.
#18 Nov 17 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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^- That

Also if Doomspike misses you'll be at 0 TP (a place I never want to be), preventing a follow-up Feint on that and any additional misses.

Most noticeable when you've just popped Bloodbath (buff only used up when an attack connects), miss the Doomspike and have to resort to a regular attack for the heal.

Edit: Yes I like Skewer II over Doomspike. I swear I miss more Doomspikes than I land...

Edited, Nov 17th 2010 11:01am by Pondering

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 2:37pm by Pondering
#19 Nov 17 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Doomspike is trash because it doesn't give any SP compared to your other skills.


I disagree.

If I get an SP pop for 50 sp for a normal hit I'd get a pop for 100-125 sp for a moonrise hit plus about a 15 sp proc for the debuff pop. If I did raging strike + Ferocity + doomspike i'd get an SP pop for about 175-250 SP.

Now if the argument is related to the damage/TP ratio, I can buy that argument. I'm going to compare Skewer II to Doomspike the next time I get a chance to play. I also completely buy the argument that you don't want to be left with 0 TP after a weapon skill which would keep you from throwing a feint in after a missed WS.
#20 Nov 18 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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jonno1482 wrote:
Quote:
Doomspike is trash because it doesn't give any SP compared to your other skills.


I disagree.

If I get an SP pop for 50 sp for a normal hit I'd get a pop for 100-125 sp for a moonrise hit plus about a 15 sp proc for the debuff pop. If I did raging strike + Ferocity + doomspike i'd get an SP pop for about 175-250 SP.

This is only for solo. In a group the debuff will proc for up to 200 SP, way higher than the damage SP proc. I've noticed that Skewer II produces unusually high SP procs for the damage it does, however, so there may be another variable for WS in the SP formula.
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#21 Nov 18 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Meowshi wrote:

and just because VIT/MND from gear does not affect HP/MP, doesn't mean they add the extra +Defense right? How much defense do you get from 1 vit anyways? +1 VIT = +1 DEF? Is DEF softcapped by levels too? There's a lot of mechanical questions to answer too
Edited, Nov 16th 2010 2:14pm by Meowshi


Just tested with Cotton Trousers, no +Def received beyond the 64 Def already listed on the item (tested on above optimal rank)...I can only theorize that your total Vit stat on your character page is used somewhere in the damage received formula (Similar to boosting +Str items and not seeing +Att go up). Or maybe +Vit from items really does have no effect! Wtb SE explanation =)
#22 Nov 18 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:
jonno1482 wrote:
Quote:
Doomspike is trash because it doesn't give any SP compared to your other skills.


I disagree.

If I get an SP pop for 50 sp for a normal hit I'd get a pop for 100-125 sp for a moonrise hit plus about a 15 sp proc for the debuff pop. If I did raging strike + Ferocity + doomspike i'd get an SP pop for about 175-250 SP.

This is only for solo. In a group the debuff will proc for up to 200 SP, way higher than the damage SP proc. I've noticed that Skewer II produces unusually high SP procs for the damage it does, however, so there may be another variable for WS in the SP formula.


Ah, never noticed what it's doing while I'm in a party. I haven't been in many. Good info though, thanks. I've also substituted Skewer II for Doomspike.

Anyway, I'm going to start pumping VIT and MND now instead of Dex it seems.
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