Feint, waiting to get nerfed.Follow

For those who have gotten feint know how overpowered it is, for those who doesnt know what feint is, its a Rank 20 skill LNC get that will let you counter a miss or evade by enemy with a ws, and only costs 250 TP, and never missed (confirm this plz, i used it abt 60+ times, never missed once), it has no cooldown, its instant, and the damage is usually or equal to a strong ws. There are some flaws to it at the moment, for example, it will work when its not suppose to, for example, it even works when you Light Thrust > Light Thrust > Miss > Light Thrust > Feint.

I been seeing alot of ppl who are leveling LNC jus to get Feint, which is awesome for others jobs as well, especially PGL, who usually hit 2x per turn, and Light Strike misses alot. But this might cause SE to take another look at the skill, hopefuly LNC dont get the same fate as DRG from FFXI(Penta Thrust/TP return).

What are your experience with this skill?

You guys don't want it to get nerfed but you all throw up detailed tests to show or claim that its OP thus causing SE to get wind and look into the situation. Guess I don't understand? Wouldn't it be wiser to discuss feint rather than make threads titled OMG FEINT OP COME CHECK THIS OUT!


Im not trying to be a dick but you are calling attention to yourself when you wouldn't want it if you got it.

this is not new, i pretty much find atleats one lancer in parties and whenever i ask thm reply is usually "Im jus getting it to level 20", its too late for it to be found out from forums and sites, it alrdy spread like wildfire on servers, i just stated what was going on.

Let's hope =)
In the meantime they have a laundry list of things to fix.

Assuming you hit with Light Thrust, wont that induce the Cannot use That Ability lag?

I'll try it out tonight regardless.

It does has cool down of approximately 2 sec, it doesn't always show this because of a minor bug, but there are times it is greyed out as a LNC. Cross-class the skill will have around 4 sec cool down.

So if every class gets an ability with no cooldown or a cost of any kind that always hits for 10k damage, that's not OP? Seriously, Feint is ridiculously OP and we all know it and love it for it.

I'm pretty sure it's sooner or later going to feel the nerf bat along with Punishing Barbs and Firm Conviction. Or perhaps they'll simply fix it so it does what it's supposed to do and not work when the mob evades.*

*Nevermind, it seems like they changed the wording from beta.

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 6:13pm by Omena

Edited, Nov 7th 2010 6:26pm by Omena

Got my lancer to 20 yesterday for feint and fleet of foot.
I agree that feint is really strong. The only situation where I wouldn't call this skill totally broken is if damage don't scale well in the future, compared to higher ws, but even that way, it's still too strong to my taste (I can solo stuff I would eat dirt halfway through before w/o breaking a sweat now...)

I would be ok for a nerf personally like increasing TP cost to 500 from 250, or/and increasing recast from 3s to 10s or even 15s maybe), at least for other non-lancer jobs (It's just as broken on pug as lnc atm...). Even with a 15s recast and a 500 TP cost it would still be my number 1 skill as of today, to give you an idea of how strong I think it is.
An overall small damage nerf so that it is not SO powerful would be ok too. Right now I just prey to miss... to kill faster... just doesn't make sense lol...
In any case, fleet of foot I won't lose I hope :)
gonna enjoy it while it lasts.

hmmm, never noticed any particular drop with concussion blow II.

Will keep an eye on that.

Have you actually managed to have it Incapacitated? It's kinda hard to do Incap right now because the condition is still unclear, but:

Algoat -> Incap head -> Horn
Karakul with bell -> Incap Head -> Bell? I've seen someone with Elm Pastoral Cane already.
Crab -> Incap Outer shell -> Crab Shell
Skeleton -> Incap head -> Eyepatch
Morbol -> Incap ?? -> Morbol Vine

There are more out there.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=29c4026362c3cb8add98892a8b84d9ed371bd789

Also, Don't forget you can animation cancel every single WS in the entire game.

Feint doesn't do 10k damage. Stop with the ridiculous analogies.


"Ridiculously good" and "ridiculously overpowered" are two different things.

Every Feint that you use is TP that you aren't building (that you are, in fact, losing) towards using another ability (e.g. WS II, Barrage, Maim, Victimize, etc.). Given two DDs, one of whom focuses on accuracy and lands his standard attacks, and the other who relies on spamming Feint (and therefore misses a lot), the first DD will have a clear advantage. Keep in mind that for non-LNCs, Feint won't deal the same kind of damage that it does with a polearm.

Of course, in the current iteration of FF14, nobody fights anything that matters and players are rewardedfor taking as long as possible to kill a mob, in the form of greater skillups (and consequently penalized for quick, high-damage kills). So maybe Feint is "overpowered" in this backwards, broken paradigm we're in right now.

That's actually far from "obviously false," as you'd have to answer the question: overpowered compared to what? Not having it?

Is having the ability to cure yourself during battle "overpowered"?


Feint doesn't even do the same thing as most WS II (incapacitation, which changes loot tables) and does significantly less damage, so I'm not sure where you're going with this. If your goal is simply to kill mobs for worthless exp (not skill, exp), then sure, go nuts.

And again, I'd like to point out that on non-LNC jobs, the comparison is not so easy. Sure, Feint does great damage with a polearm, but like any other ability, using it on another job is a different matter.


And what does this do for you in the current version of the game? It doesn't improve your skill gain (faster kills are worse for skillup), nobody cares about exp, and WS II is going to be better for farming.

So let's side aside skill vs. kill for a moment and talk about exactly what it is that Feint does.

The fact that Feint requires a miss to activate means that every use of Feint indicates that your net accuracy is shifting further towards 50%. In the current bronze-age era, where everyone's accuracy sucks, Feint is a mighty hammer of the gods. But in a presumably mature version of this game, where (to borrow FFXI's example) expected accuracy may be around 90%, Feint is not nearly as significant.

In a hypothetical world where you are choosing between a 90% accurate normal attack that generates ~375 TP and a 100% accurate WS that consumes 250 TP, Feint is nowhere near broken. Much like low-level Sneak Attack in early game FFXI, the only reason why Feint seems so strong right now is because players' accuracy is so bad that a 100% accurate attack is a Big Deal.

It is unlikely that this condition will persist through the life of the game.

All the test about how DEX having no effect on ACC give an average of 70% chance to hit, leaving aside the issue of DEX on ACC. Assuming you don't wear ACC rings nor put points in DEX, that's a 70% chance to hit, that's not too bad like people think. Feint doesn't always give 100 SP, it can be more, it can be less, it gives exactly how much SP for the % dmg it deals, it doesn't debuff for extra SP gain, it doesn't have any better chance for SP gain (if they all hit). It is, by all means, contribute as much SP as anything else, not to mention how random it is to gain SP. You can have a fight with 10 Feint and 4 normal attacks hit, and you would only get SP from the normal attacks that hit but not Feint.

Incap is hard to land, you will have to use WS II again and again and again to make sure that it lands. Yes, you always use Feint, but then wouldn't you always use Light Thrust/Heavy Thrust/Full Thrust? You can only gain TP from hit, take hit and Invigorate I/II.

I believe we won't see any changes to skills in the next patch, but that we have to wait and see.



Right, so you all would wait till everyone to get 500 SP in the party before finishing the monster? This can take half a minute, may take 1 minute, may take 3 minutes, may take forever who knows with how random the SP is. The point of gaining fast SP is balancing between SP gain per kill and kills per hour, isn't it? Killing slowly for cap SP may not be better than killing fast for half the SP cap.

Edited, Nov 10th 2010 6:14pm by Khornette

Let me give you a more transparent example:

Would it be "overpowered" if a tank could hold hate for an entire fight and not get hit a single time (i.e. taking zero damage) for multiple fights in a row?

Overpowered is relative.


I have yet to see any sort of tests validating this claim. In fact, it seems rather counter-intuitive, as the mobs against which you deal the most damage (lower level mobs) seems to give out the smallest skillups, and vice versa.

The most consistent truth right now is that longer fights (read: more attacks landed, more shield procs, more cures cast, etc.) result in more SP.

#!@$%@! 500TP now.