Lancer DiscussionFollow

Hey everyone,

I've got some general information and questions about the Lancer class that I'd like to bring up here and hopefully figure things out a bit more.

I've been playing a Lancer since the beginning of Open Beta, which, granted, is only about a couple weeks. I currently have a rank 15 Lancer, at physical level 20, with a handful of ranks in some other various fighting classes as well as crafting classes.

Now, as most people who play Lancers already know, we tend to miss... a lot. Stat-wise, we assume that this mostly has to do with our DEX scores, since it is the attribute governing physical accuracy. I have read in some places that actually making a Lancer and ONLY putting points into DEX actually makes for a really fun Lancer (I have not bothered to try it, because I solo too often, and a high VIT is pretty necessary for that). However, my stats are currently sitting at about 30 STR, 44 VIT, and 64 DEX (or something like that) and I still seem to miss very often, but only in certain situations, almost randomly. It seems like during various battles I will just miss CONSTANTLY, or, better yet, almost always miss my stronger attacks (Moonrise, etc.). Incredibly annoying. So, my first question to anyone else who's playing a Lancer and is a higher level: Do I really need to raise my DEX that much more?

Now, I'm not just trying to fish for answers. I've played around with this a bit. My DEX used to be 70, with no noticeable change to accuracy. I had to redistribute points because of a low VIT and a jokingly low STR. Like I said, no real difference. I also have a secondary character who is training on becoming a Gladiator, currently rank 6. His DEX is 16, never been touched. I hit fine. Hardly any problems, with the occasional miss - but that's just to be understood. With the Lancer, it's almost unbelievable. But, with this Gladiator, barring one outlying fight, I hit easily >80% of the time, no problem. So, then I wondered if it's a class thing? Are Lancer's just supposed to hit less frequently? That just seems absurd, because they also seem to do much less damage than my gladiator (physical level 13, mind you) as well as have less health. They almost seem pointless if it's entirely a class based issue, barring the nice points about the Lancer (heavy thrust's "bind", Moonrise's TP lock, skewer's multi-hit capabilities, etc.) I understand Lancer's are essentially a support melee class, but this is ridiculous.

Finally, and I apologize for the long post, but I really want to figure this out, I looked into alternatives. I'd like to point out that if anything I've written or am about to write has already been figured out, I sincerely apologize and am embarrassed to call myself a Lancer of Eorzea, so please bear with me.
After getting a few subtle hints from a friend of mine who is prone to never telling me things straight forward (note: I am also the kind of person that likes to figure things out on his own, so it's rare for me to read through forums/wiki's about character/class development, etc.), I learned that Lancer's have two unique properties that should be taken advantage of: First, as a polearm weilder, they have a physical attack range, longer than other melee fighters. Second, they do more damage when attacking from the rear (which, to me, seems like it should be true for all classes, so verification of that would also be appreciated). Anyway, so I took these things into consideration and did some testing.
It SEEMS like that when I stand a particular distance away from an enemy, my accuracy increases. Again, I say it SEEMS like, because there are still those almost-too-frequent battles where everything just seems to miss like crazy. Furthermore, the ranged benefit to Lancer's seems almost unusable, as most enemies still seem to be able to hit me from a distance (even when bound and whatnot. They just turn and hit me).

I'll try to make the rest of this short. I've also had a lot of problems with gaining TP with my Lancer. The invigorate skill is wonderfully helpful for it, but it seems ridiculous that a single hit with the Lancer nets one only about 300 TP, whereas a strike from a Gladiator can net me 600-700. Likewise, the Lancer seems to attack slower, netting a smaller about of TP over time, regardless. While standing at a range, I seem to gain slightly more TP per hit, but still not enough to make a huge difference, or to put me on the same level as another melee fighter. Is there some other element I'm missing that allows me to gain TP faster?

I think I'm done for now. Thanks for taking the time to read it, and any feedback/answers would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, I am more than happy to turn this thread into a full discussion about how a Lancer is to be played and whatnot throughout the game, both as a solo character and its role in groups. I like to think I have an idea, but based on my experiences, I'm still a little skeptical.
Sorry again for the long post, and thank you in advance for any replies.

Since I haven't played the beta I can only pass onto you what I've read and heard but I cannot personally confirm or deny any of it....
That said, I've read in many places that your position (especially as a Lancer) is very very important in battle. Lancers are almost considered "mid-line" fighters. They shouldn't be on the front line with a Gladiator, but they shouldn't be in the back row with mage either. They belong in the middle somewhere, if for no other reason than because the weapon allows them to.
I really hope that something is done to keep Lancers from become "whif machines." Nothing made me more angry playing as a DRG in FFXI than having such a long wait between attacks only to miss.

Thanks for the replies. And sorry again for my post. I re-read it and felt like I just sounded like I was just whining and ranting. Probably annoying.

Anyway, Shneibel, I use Invigorate a lot because it is definitely helpful, but its stamina usage and short duration seem like it's really only useful at the start of a battle, using it right before hand. That's what I do, and it helps, but it has a very short duration, so once it's gone, we're right back to where we started. This is opposed to other classes who maintain a high TP generation throughout the battle.
Also, I did notice that about the Lancer's starting weapon. I've actually been told that the Lancer starting spear has the highest damage and accuracy. Obviously, I disagree completely.

ReiThor, I definitely agree with what you've mentioned, and it does seem like that IS the advantage to a Lancer. I'm just afraid the class will not live up to that role if these problems persist (granted, if I'm the only one having these issues, then you can just ignore everything I've said.. haha). I'm interested to see how other weapons perform with the Lancer. I just today saw a Lancer running around with a Harpoon, which I take to be sort of the "next step up" from the weathered spear. It has a higher damage rating, and its accuracy is reported as 100 in the game... but I'm obviously still skeptical. Now I just need a high level carpenter to make me one, or a shop to buy one.

Eske, if you don't mind me asking, what is your rank/level and DEX score? Just out of curiosity. Also, since you mentioned that his is the first accuracy complaint you've heard, could it be that I'm just stupid? Am I just doing something wrong, or do I just have awful luck? Neither would surprise me, really. haha

Also, an update to my previous rant:
I'm currently working on gladiator skills with my Lancer character, because I want the rank 6 Circle Slash. I'm just grinding with some Thistletail Marmots and I've noticed that I miss at about the same rate as a Lancer, very poorly (again, DEX 66). However, last night, when playing my other character who is also a secondary Gladiator (As in, I started him as a blacksmith), he was hitting with a much higher success rate, with only 18 DEX. Likewise, I've gone through several battles already where 90% of my special attacks miss (Using Concussive Blow from Pugilist, and Moonrise from Lancer).
I want to keep playing a Lancer because I enjoy the idea of what they're capable of and what they're supposed to do, but I don't know if I can keep this up much longer, especially against higher level mobs.

Side note: I've noticed that TP generation seems to be correlated to damage output. As a gladiator, I fought a marmot and gained lots of TP. Then I fought one of those coblyns and gained a lot less, also did less damage. This is nice to know, but becomes an issue for the Lancer since I seem to do much less damage in all aspects as a Lancer. Regardless, isn't the point of "piercing" damage in most games to ignore armor ratings? I would think Lancers would have the advantage of doing more damage, thus gaining more TP, from armored enemies.

That's all for now. Again, sorry for the ranting and whining. If this really is just an individual problem and nobody else is really having issues, I'll just drop it and find a different class. Thanks again for your replies.

Hello

I have Lancer with rank 16/physic 21 STR 80+??/VIT 28+2/DEX 40, with Harpoon I didn't tend to miss so much except they can "evade" my attack, Evade is alway miss and I don't think its same as "miss" [bad acc], some mobs are highly evasion. I have 4 copper rings equipped with +8 acc bonus, that really helps :)

I guess, Weapon and Armor are the factor for Lancer to land a good hit, and I try not to equip overlevel gears and no favors class for my Lancer [mind that, in BETA there are really hard to find favor gears for LNC...]

just my opinion though

Edited, Sep 20th 2010 2:20am by Altimis2529

Completely agree about the gear. The vast majority of Lancers i saw in OB were running around w/ Weathered Spear and it's very hard to make any judgements about the discipline if you're using the starter weapon past rank 6. I also saw very few players (in general) filling out their jewelry slots.

Weathered Spear = 81 accuracy
Harpoon + 4x Copper Rings = 100 + 8 = 108 accuracy

That +27 accuracy from your first gear upgrades makes a massive difference...especially for the Lancer who's defense comes from their offense (since LNC needs to damage the target to heal themselves and Slow the mob).



The Bind and Heavy are not useful to kite the mob, but they are useful for the LNC to rotate behind or to the sides where your accuracy & crit rate is much greater.

All in all, a Lancer w/ Harpoon + Accuracy gear always attacking to the target's sides & rear doesn't really have accuracy problems...but I did see some Lancers at rank 10+ with Weathered Spear and no Accessories just face tanking their mobs...which I must imagine would be very frustrating to see Miss Miss Evade Miss Miss....

The Harpoon is difficult to make and one of the weapons that didn't appear til almost OB ended. The Carpentry is the easiest part, the Harpoon head itself is made from Goldsmithing. And the weapon needs Fish Glue, which is made from Alchemy. And this particular glue recipe needs higher level fish, i've heard L15+ Fisher is required.

So all in all...yeah the Harpoon will be a real pain to make yourself. But i ended up buying my Fish Glue from an alchemist/fisher, and the rest of the parts shouldn't be too difficult but you will need Goldsmithing for the head & butt.