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#1 Jul 19 2012 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/174300/SWTORs_executive_producer_leaves_BioWare_amid_layoff_reports.php

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/07/19/five-reasons-ea-is-in-decline/


Another round of staffing cuts with the Executive Producers leaving as well. Reports that the game is well under 1 million subscribers. Server numbers being reduced from 120+ (NA) down to 14 total.

1 million - 750k is still a healthy population , and there is money in free to play.

Will Star Wars: TOR
Reach its former subscription heights:1 (4.3%)
Reach a Rift level of sustainability :13 (56.5%)
Join the likes of forgotten MMO's like Warhammer & Age of Conan :7 (30.4%)
Be only mentioned in whispers along with Vanguard as a cautionary tale for MMO developers :2 (8.7%)
Total:23
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#2 Jul 19 2012 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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I think it will pick back up. It's launch was absurdly large, but in reality the profit in MMOs is in the long run.

They had a very successful launch, which paves the way for future success--the feelings towards the game are generally favorable. WoW didn't even start to actually get popular until Burning Crusade. TOR might not be looking at 10 million subs anytime in the immediate future, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hit 2-5 mil in the next 5 years, assuming they continue with content updates and their aggressive advertising campaign.
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#3 Jul 20 2012 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Mike Morhaime wrote:
With World of Warcraft, it was a challenge to handle the immediate demand when we launched back in 2004, and that was just in North America. We eventually expanded to other regions and reached nearly 5 million players by the end of the first year,


WoW had hit 5 million players within a year of release. I think it is fair to say that WoW had hit its stride well before BC came out. Though it clearly peaked in WotLK with a plateau with slight decline in Cataclysm.

I haven't voted but I think at this point the best that BW can hope for is a Rift level of stability. Especially with Secret World & GW2 release and some other strong releases on the horizon (not to mention MoP sometime after September). Rift saw initial high numbers with a swift decline but with an aggressive server xfer strategy, a crazy amount of content released via patches (seriously go look it up, no other company compares) and numerous attempts to bring in new and former players that have hit a fairly sustainable population.

SWTOR is different in that it was probably the single most expensive video game ever developed (estimates at 200-300million more with marketing included). Every analyst and industry reporter is saying that the current state of the game is pretty much well beyond a "worst case scenario". So between now and Fake/American Thanksgiving, it will be interesting to see whether 1-15 free play, and marketing to get former players to return work or if the game continues to bleed players.
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#4 Jul 21 2012 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, if you count China WoW had 5 mil after one year. If you don't, it had 2 mil. And it took about 6 months for it to hit 1 mil, with some extremely active marketing.

Realistically, WoW has 5.5M subs. It's ridiculously disingenuous to include Chinese players in those stats for several reasons. For one, there is no such thing as a WoW subscription in China. They pay for blocks of game time (which are actually pretty small), so numbers can end up vastly inflated very, very easily. We have absolutely no way of knowing how they count who is "subscribed" to the game. Plus, even ignoring this use of "subscribing", they... aren't. Blizzard licenses the game out to a Chinese company that hosts it and manages Chinese operations. Blizzard has shockingly little control over the whole system.

I have no clue what kind of market SW has in China. But I wouldn't be surprised if "sub" numbers would skyrocket if they licensed the game out the same way Blizz did. But as far as I'm concerned, WoW China is a legitimately different game that EU/US WoW. Yeah, fine, WoW might have 10M players. But it's like saying that there are 6K professional football matches a year (random number). Sure, it might be true, but it's not like it's necessarily telling you something about the professional leagues.

Okay, that's a bad analogy, but I'm really quite tired.

And I haven't seen any of this doom and gloom screaming about TOR. Populations on the transfer servers is healthy and active. The older servers will get merged to get them back up. There have been some pretty big content announcements to keep players interested.

At the 6th month period, WoW had about the same or slightly more subs than TOR has now. Sure, the trend was in the opposite direction, but we aren't nearly low enough to be counting it out yet. Because what I'm seeing is a huge number of people who ARE coming back to try the game again now that some time has passed. It's not like all those subscribers were gone for good, and there's still a sizeable market for expansion.
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#5 Jul 21 2012 at 1:17 AM Rating: Good
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I voted for a Rift level of stability, but I don't think TOR is as bad off as most people say. I know the server I transferred too is quite active; I rarely pvp against or with the same group of people like I did on my old server. Maybe 2-3 people will be the same, but even if I Q up immediately after leaving a WZ, chances are at least half of the next WZ will contain new faces on both sides, and it'll be like that for ~7-8 games before I start to see repeats. That encourages me a lot, because it happens both in lowbie pvp and level 50 unranked.
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#6 Jul 21 2012 at 9:13 AM Rating: Decent
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It was actually 3.5 million NA/EU/etc, with 1.5 million players in China for 5 million total.

Edit - I will fudge and include Taiwan, but excluding China, 7.2 million play WoW currently.

/facts

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 11:18am by bodhisattva
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#7 Jul 21 2012 at 9:37 AM Rating: Decent
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I found an article with an interesting quote

Quote:
The publisher claimed just after the game’s release in December that it needed to retain 500,000 subscribers to make Star Wars: The Old Republic profitable.
.

If the game peaked with 1.7 million in February, had lost 400k players by May and is now currently thought to be sitting below 1 million active subs. If we know they need 500k at the bare minimum to be profitable. I think Rift level sustainability is a definite option (if they can release new content before October).
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#8 Jul 28 2012 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I finally actually read the articles you linked, and I kinda fail to see why we should put any faith in them. At all.

For one, EVERYTHING in the TOR section is conjecture. And for a journalistic article (nvm it's an op-ed, I mean c'mon), it's pretty atrociously opinionated. Failed to make much of an impact? How exactly are they measuring that? "...it’s perhaps a bit unclear as to how much EA had riding on The Old Republic." They don't even specify to what extent it IS clear, which means that the only reason the sentence was phrased this way was to seed suspense.

Modest following of a million or so? A million players is wildly successful for an MMO, and TOR peaked at around 1.7 M and (according to Bioware) is still above 1M iirc.

Quite literally the ONLY piece of actual evidence in that piece is that the Executive Producer was fired. Well, one thing everything I'm seing online agrees on is that Vogel was let go (or left--we don't know what happened) BEFORE any of the other layoffs. And BioWare's response is reasonable, even if I wouldn't trust it to be 100% true--the staff they needed to create the game, and the staff they need to run/manage the game/new content aren't necessarily the same. And even if they are, you don't need as many of them.

Then we get him saying EA is failing because Battlefront isn't beating COD in fan numbers. Last I checked, being #1 in sales and being successful weren't the same thing.

Vastly exaggerated ME3 stuff. Moving on.

PR stuff. EA has ALWAYS had terrible PR. And they just keep growing, because they have their fingers in enough pockets that it just doesn't really matter. Sucks, but it's the truth. Boycotting EA at this point means missing out on a huge number of the big title releases, so most gamers won't do it, bad PR or otherwise.

Everyone is jumping into social games--they can be extremely profitable. His "own private theory" is just dumb as hell.

So, no, I don't see any reason to see his opinion as being relevant, and it's far from substantiated fact. Hell, it's way less detailed than most op-eds even tend to be.

The last article you linked suggests that they expect 1.25M subs by March of 2013. We don't know if that's an estimate based on shrinking, growth, or what. But that's far from bad.

I see absolutely no reason to run around screaming about the sky falling. At all.
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#9 Jul 30 2012 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
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The Old Repulic won't die unless corporate decides to kill it. Same with World of Warcraft. The 500k subscribers minimum requirement was probably calculated before they closed down 100+ servers. I'd wager they can run this game for a long time with almost no subscribers. It'll only die if/when SWG2 is released and is successful, but no one has officially picked up that torch yet.

And all MMO games are losing subscribers. From what I've read, there's only one MMO game that has gained subscribers every year since release.

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#10 Jul 30 2012 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I can't take anything Paul Tassi says on Forbes seriously after his abysmally poor coverage of Diablo III's hacking "problem". Articles found here and here show he apparently takes forum gossip as gospel in his rush to create a new article every few days.

Since Bioware added the trial to level 15, I've been playing through the first 15 levels of all the classes I didn't really get into on the beta. I still think the Agent/Smuggler could be better, but I also found I really like the Bounty Hunter gameplay. It also helps that you actually get your healing companion first. SWTOR is a good game, but the only thing it really has going for it is the IP. It doesn't have 7 years of development that WoW has, it doesn't have the frantic pace of new content that RIFT has somehow sustained, the combat isn't as interactive as GW2 and TERA, and the graphics are good but not exceptional (clearly better than WoW but middle-of-the-pack for current releases). BW does an exceptional job of telling a story, so there is that, but I don't think that translates into long-term players. I would play SWTOR as a single player game all day long. I don't want to pay a sub for a single-player story, even if there are 8 unique story-lines (excluding shared worlds/quests).

Personally, I would love to see WoW shed at least half of it's player base. Not because I want WoW to fail, but because I want there to be a lot of competition between developers for good ideas. I would love a game with a mix of DAoC's RvR PvP, GW2's gameplay and dynamic events, WoW's add-on support and end-game activities, expand on RIFT's soul system so each class can fill each role, with maybe something from The Secret World's skill tree (literally hundreds of skills, but you can only choose 7 actives and 7 passives). Differentiate between the classes by resource model: rage; energy; mp; a dual resource system like monks (MoP) or demon hunters (D3), or maybe one based on CDs.
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#11 Jul 30 2012 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Cooldown based resource system would suck so hard. You'd be forced to follow a rotation for optimal damage/healing output.

I wouldn't mind if more MMO games started using a fourth role. You've got tanking and healing, currently, plus damage. Would be nice if they started adding a fourth role to the games, like a control/debuff/buff role. DC Universe Online did this excellently, in my opinion, with the Controller "class". Crowd control, debuffing, buffing and boosting resource regeneration. Basically helping everyone else do a better job. That's the stuff I love.
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#12 Jul 30 2012 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Cooldown based resource system would suck so hard. You'd be forced to follow a rotation for optimal damage/healing output.

I wouldn't mind if more MMO games started using a fourth role. You've got tanking and healing, currently, plus damage. Would be nice if they started adding a fourth role to the games, like a control/debuff/buff role. DC Universe Online did this excellently, in my opinion, with the Controller "class". Crowd control, debuffing, buffing and boosting resource regeneration. Basically helping everyone else do a better job. That's the stuff I love.


I can appreciate that approach, because I enjoy it too, but I think devs have avoided that because it almost alienates a subset of players. Not everyone likes being the support type, and if you have that class in game you need to balance content around it. DCUO sorta dealt with that by giving everyone the ability to swap into damage or class-specific role on a whim, but I just don't see how it would work in TOR.

Having said that, I sure would like to see more of it. The holy trinity gets tiresome after awhile.
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#13 Jul 30 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Cooldown based resource system would suck so hard. You'd be forced to follow a rotation for optimal damage/healing output.

I wouldn't mind if more MMO games started using a fourth role. You've got tanking and healing, currently, plus damage. Would be nice if they started adding a fourth role to the games, like a control/debuff/buff role. DC Universe Online did this excellently, in my opinion, with the Controller "class". Crowd control, debuffing, buffing and boosting resource regeneration. Basically helping everyone else do a better job. That's the stuff I love.


I can appreciate that approach, because I enjoy it too, but I think devs have avoided that because it almost alienates a subset of players. Not everyone likes being the support type, and if you have that class in game you need to balance content around it. DCUO sorta dealt with that by giving everyone the ability to swap into damage or class-specific role on a whim, but I just don't see how it would work in TOR.

Having said that, I sure would like to see more of it. The holy trinity gets tiresome after awhile.


Has anyone tried GW2? I know they essentially have no healer role, right? And isn't their tank role actually the control role or something?
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#14 Jul 30 2012 at 10:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I mentioned CDs as a resource because I play an enhance shaman.

GW2 has Damage, Support, and Control, although I didn't get far enough in the last beta weekend to do much. I played an engineer, and the best comparison I could make would be to take a druid, without bear form or resto-spec heals. You have some buffs, some of your attacks apply useful debuffs, and a few heals that won't save anyone that's doing something stupid but still manage to help. In other words, Maz would thoroughly enjoy it.

On an unrelated note, one other thing that really stood out was the fact that you can drop a profession and pick it up again later without losing your recipes and skill level.
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#15 Jul 31 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Riiiight, I remember that now. I read a lot about it a few months back, and it did sound really interesting (if they can make it work). I really like that every player has options for each roles, whatever their class. Like you can choose 2-3 (don't remember number) of AoE heals, or you can choose some super powerful self heals, or other support skills like group damage mitigation or an actual positionable shield/wall.

If it works out, we might actually see a new direction for MMOs.
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#16 Jul 31 2012 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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AstarintheDruid wrote:
I mentioned CDs as a resource because I play an enhance shaman.


I guess it could work, I just hate having to follow a rotation. My playstyle is far too erratic for me to do it. You should see me playing my Juggernaut/Guardian. I'm all over the place, mashing buttons that aren't mashable(?) and such. Total faceroll on the keyboard. I hate the idea that you have to hit your abilities in a specific order or the entire thing just falls apart.

That's why I switched to the Assassin. Smiley: grin Well, that and... LIGHTNING!

AstarintheDruid wrote:
GW2 has Damage, Support, and Control, although I didn't get far enough in the last beta weekend to do much. I played an engineer, and the best comparison I could make would be to take a druid, without bear form or resto-spec heals. You have some buffs, some of your attacks apply useful debuffs, and a few heals that won't save anyone that's doing something stupid but still manage to help. In other words, Maz would thoroughly enjoy it.


Sounds interesting. I've been looking through some LPs of GW2 and I can't figure out if I'm liking or disliking the game. The combat looks fun, with some attacks unlocking better attacks (like a combo system, or a castsequence macro built into the game). It might have been the quality of the videos people have uploaded, but I just felt like there was too much... stuff... on the screen.

Will have to look at some more videos.
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#17 Jul 31 2012 at 7:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Really basic summary of GW2 abilities and controls.

The first 5 abilities on your action bar are determined by the weapons you have equipped. For most classes, 1-3 are determined by your main hand, and 4-5 are determined by your off-hand. For rogues, 1-2 is main-hand, 3 is based on both weapons, and 4-5 is off-hand. So pistol-dagger is different from dagger-pistol.

Slot 6 you can choose from 1 of your haling abilities, 7-9 chosen from your skill tree, and 0 is basically some epic ability.

Most classes have a quick-swap slot so they can have 2 MH/OH combinations available. Engineers instead can activate a backpack or utility belt to give them different abilities, and Elementalists can change their elemental affinity (swap from all fire spells to water, earth, or air spells). A low-level engineer backpack let me drop 3 health power-ups that people could walk over for a small heal; each one had an independent CD. There was also a flame thrower that had some different attack options, and I could drop different types of turrets.

The theory they seem to be working with in GW2 is that, if no one player can control the battle (by being a tank and holding aggro), everyone will have to help with knock-backs, stuns, blinds, etc. And if no one person can support the whole group (by healing them while they spam their DPS rotation), then everyone will have to use self and group heals and buffs. Even if that totally flops, the solo aspects to the game to me are more than enough to justify the box price.
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#18 Jul 31 2012 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Looks like they're going to a limited F2P option. Seems like essentially the single player content will be F2P, but you'll need to sub or purchase access to multiplayer content. I'm honestly surprised they'd make this switch so soon. Then again, making the switch while you still have a million+ players means a million+ players getting all their friends to come play for free.

I typically don't like these models for MMOs, but that's generally because I never feel like I'm really getting anything out of playing a partial game, even if it's free.

Since TOR has such a fleshed out single-player game, it might actually be really attractive in ways other MMOs aren't.

I'm starting to seriously wonder if the subscription model for an MMO can even survive. The only game on the market I can see remaining sub for the long haul is EVE, and that's because the nature of the game is VASTLY different than other ones out there (and technically, you can play for free, as long as you're able to make 350-400M ISK, the in-game currency, per 30 days).

The majority of WoW's population don't play via a subscription, and iirc the population drop for the game is very heavily centered in Western markets.

Someone can feel free to make another thread about this, I just figured I'd put it here.
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#19 Jul 31 2012 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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When one of the game dev states they are exploring the option it shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

I still feel that you are being wildly optimistic in assuming that there are 1mil + active subs right now. MoP & GW2 will probably hurt things, especially if they do not release the new Operation before September 25. This really is the worst case scenario though it will be interesting to see if it does net them a subscription boom or not. This will be the first time this has happened with what was supposed to be a 1st Tier MMO.
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#20 Jul 31 2012 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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Well, Bioware only confirmed today that numbers were below 1M. And considering the numbers we last heard were somewhere around 1.3M, and those weren't that long ago, I don't think it was a "wildly optimistic" assumption.

In any case, it seems that the game won't be fully F2P in a meaningful way. It's more like an extended take on WoW's current system. It'll allow for free play up to level 50, but that's not going to be cap soon enough since it's going up. Everything else will require you to pay.
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#21 Jul 31 2012 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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F2P you get 1-50 for free. Limited FP's & WZ's per week. No Ops. GTN restricted.


The single biggest thing to watch for now in terms of game health is if they are able to get content out before MoP launches. Since we don't have anything on the PTR, or even grumblings about the PTR, I am going to say it is a safe bet that we won't see new content until October. That will be a bad thing for the health of this game, I said in in May and after the continuing bad news it is even more important now. GW2 & MoP will hit them harder than D3, especially when it comes to subs.
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#22 Aug 02 2012 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think MoP will hit harder than D3. The general consensus in the chat seems to be that people went to ToR because of MoP. If they left WoW because of pandas then I doubt a lot of them will go back for pandas.

As for GW2, I'm not sure. ToR is a sci-fi game where GW2 (and WoW) are fantasy games. A lot of people I've talked with seemed bored with the fantasy approach. Swords, magic, dragons and all that. My main reason for not being absolutely thrilled about GW2 is that it's another fantasy game. The game looks amazing, but I've killed dragons and skeletons and ghosts for the last ten years. ToR was a nice change for me.

If I get bored with end-game content, I'll roll a new alt. I'm six months in and still haven't hit end-game, though I'm getting close to it on my Assassin.
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#23 Aug 02 2012 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it is safe to say that while there is a small vocal niche of players who are upset with Kung-Fu Panda Island Adventure, that new content for WoW will have a significant impact on this games population (which has already decreased by 45-50% from peak in the complete absence of new content from Blizz). In fact I think it would be a fairly safe bet that there might be a link between MoP having a release date and ToR announcing F2P within a week of each other

GW2 has a lot of buzz, and while it is fantasy vs sci fi in terms of genres you have to realize that it is also going to lure players away, and at this point they need growth not to bleed further subs. Between GW2 & MoP there is a fairly large potential to lose a lot of subs, and that is exacerbated if players are playing Ops & Flashpoints that were released in April.



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#24 Aug 02 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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MoP and GW2 will no doubt pull a number of subscribers from ToR, but I don't think it'll be as bad as people say.

D3 was bad. Planets went from 200+ to 50-ish in one night and never really recovered (are people still farming playing D3?) until the server merges. That was a game that people had been looking forward to for ten years, though. I just don't think MoP is going to pull that many people. The die hard WoW players, sure, but a lot of people are under the impression that MoP is going to be a hilariously underwhelming expansion.

I guess time will tell. I might leave ToR to go play MoP, but only to see how messed up my class has become. I don't imagine I'll go back to WoW full-time again. Once you get a whiff of the 2nd generation MMO games out there, it's not very tempting to return to 2004.
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#25 Aug 03 2012 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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I dunno if people are still playing it, but they love to complain about it. All those folks logging into DIII to spend hours in the chat declaring it dead, it must be more enjoyable than actually playing anything else.
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#26 Aug 03 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
I think it is safe to say that while there is a small vocal niche of players who are upset with Kung-Fu Panda Island Adventure, that new content for WoW will have a significant impact on this games population (which has already decreased by 45-50% from peak in the complete absence of new content from Blizz). In fact I think it would be a fairly safe bet that there might be a link between MoP having a release date and ToR announcing F2P within a week of each other


And it's a very tempting offer for some of us as well.

Honestly facing $40 for a new WoW expansion versus $15 (the eventual reduced price for the game apparently, which comes with a free month of time) for SWTOR, it's easy to sit there and wonder if WoW is really going to be worth the money. I mean they're rolling out a lot of new stuff, but the underlying core of the game is still old. So now it's got Pandas, but it's still WoW really. A year ago I was weighing the same decision, and the AP and D3 looked to be the better deal. This time, I'm not as sure. Well, not sure enough to download the free trial at least. Smiley: rolleyes


Edited, Aug 3rd 2012 8:12am by someproteinguy
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#27 Aug 04 2012 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Well, something TOR has going for it is the IP. It has a far larger population of new MMO players than any other launch title has had, I'm sure. Leaves less room for other MMOs to make a dent.

Though, to be fair, I bet that a lot of those players are ones that have already left after finding they didn't care for MMOs. So who knows.
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#28 Aug 13 2012 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/10/technology/star-wars-free-play/index.html


Not really a lot of new information there, but someone linked it on MMO Champ forums.
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#29 Aug 13 2012 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
"The message from players exiting the game is clear: 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription, and many indicate they would come back if we offer a free-to-play model," CEO John Riccitiello said on a recent call with investors.


Smiley: lol

God, that's an awful quote. Just short of saying "We're using your money to attract people who want to play for free." Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Aug 13th 2012 8:07am by someproteinguy
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#30 Aug 13 2012 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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Somehow, I'm ok with game company investors being told that.
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#31 Aug 14 2012 at 5:55 PM Rating: Decent
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http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-free-play-edition

Doesn`t really expand though you get an idea of restrictions on F2P accounts and how cartel coins will be used to buy additional character slots etc
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#32 Aug 16 2012 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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For anyone who may have missed it...

Interview Linky = http://vid.buffed.de/video/10222/SWTOR-Interview-mit-Bioware-zur-Zukunft-des-Star-WarsMMORPGs

Post #7 does a nice paraphrase = http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=521304

(links aren't working this morning for me for some reason...)

Listening/reading to all that had a few impressions. Probably the most heartening is they're aware of some of the pitfalls that can happen in a badly structured F2P environment. You kind get a feeling that things didn't go at all the way they envisioned, they didn't respond as well as they could have, etc. but they have enough invested in this thing they don't want to give up on it yet. Will be interesting to see ultimately how they end up structuring F2P over the next year or two, how much more money it will actually bring in, etc. Also, yeah, a corporate person being upbeat about their product, I know I know... Smiley: rolleyes

Edited, Aug 16th 2012 8:12am by someproteinguy
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#33 Aug 18 2012 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Good find!

Very interesting, listening to them talk about finding the balance between F2P and Pay2Win. It does seem like vanity items, speedier leveling etc as well as access to end game content but not so much a leg up at end game that would give players who put the money in an advantage over the regular subscriber.

Discussing the timetable for releasing content going forward was interesting. 6 weeks is a very short time, but even if it is small like 1 WZ or FP per 6 weeks or even world event like with the Chevin right now that would be very nice. It is also interesting to see that they feel that they have spent a lot of time updating UI, Legacy, server consolidations, LFG etc to make a more solid game and are hoping that when old players return that will hook them and that they can now focus almost entirely on new content.

It feels like they are playing the strength and weakness's of the game. Make the strong single player story F2P. Get people hooked, committed to their character and then have an end game sitting there that will get them to subscribe to or pay to play. Hopefully it works out.
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#35 Sep 19 2012 at 9:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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SwaziSpring wrote:
Given the massive launch, I think the game may have a chance. I'm not saying it's going to overtake WoW, as I'm fairly certain we all know that isn't going to happen, especially now that the game is in decline. I'm also not quite sure there is anything that EA can do to bring back most of the player-base.


Part of me thinks they pretty much got what they should have been expecting, given that they already had subscription numbers from SWG to look at. Basically it's a decent 2nd tier MMO with a smaller group of very loyal fans. Assuming they don't muck it up too bad, as with the previously mentioned game, there's still plenty of life left in it. How this got hyped as a 'WoW killer' though, is beyond me.
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#37 Sep 20 2012 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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The server consolidation didn't help much. People are leaving in droves now because BioWare wants them to rename their characters.

I moved to The Red Eclipse (EU) because it was one of the only high population servers where I could get the name "Mazra" - seriously, what the @#%^ is up with some smacktard taking my name in every goddamn MMO I've played since WoW? - and now I have to rename him because some schmuck on another server had a "Mazra" character with more /played time or whatever.

That's just great. Really.
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#38 Sep 20 2012 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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My biggest gripe about server consolidation is that we went to having wait times at peak hours. *grumble grumble*

Got to keep all my names though, so that's a plus.
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#39 Oct 03 2012 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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This is probably old news by now, but I stumbled across this:



Smiley: dubious
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#40 Oct 03 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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So can we talk about how terrible the new project animation is? Because it is. They took my favorite animation and mangled it.]

@Protein, you have a wait now, but when the game goes F2P sub players get queue priority when logging in. So unless there are enough Sub players to bring the pop to high all by themselves, you're set if willing to continue paying. Of course, that only makes it worse for you if you don't want to...
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#41 Oct 04 2012 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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New Project animation looks horrible. They also managed to butcher Overload (Inquisitor AOE knockback) in order to make it instant. It's now out of sync with the animation and the animation's somersault has been removed.

PvP, man... making games boring since 2006.
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#42 Oct 04 2012 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
@Protein, you have a wait now, but when the game goes F2P sub players get queue priority when logging in. So unless there are enough Sub players to bring the pop to high all by themselves, you're set if willing to continue paying. Of course, that only makes it worse for you if you don't want to...


Wait hasn't been much of a problem since the first night thankfully. Only occasionally at peak hours. Funny you mention F2P though. That was partly my concern. I mean, if paying accounts are in a queue at peak hours, how are free accounts going to be able to play? I mean, they didn't leave much room for those accounts on the new servers.

I mean, I'm all for encouraging subscriptions and stuff, but if people can't get online to begin with, they can't get hooked.
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#43 Oct 04 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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They may be closing the full servers to new accounts when they go F2P.

What kills me about the project change is that it's literally the solution that makes no one happy. It looks awful, still has a delay compared to shock, and can't even be used to set up burst spikes anymore. So it's neither mirrored, nor attractive. And the camp that was unhappy with the concept of throwing debris for damage (which I think was awesome) didn't get anything.

Seriously, it's ridiculous. Smiley: mad

What they should have done is mirrored Shock. Instead of an instant shock, the Inquisitor would create a lightning orb in the air next to them and then that could either:
1. Launch towards the target at the same rate as the projectile from project.
2. My personal favorite, make it a shock "turret" that would fire a lightning arc towards the target. Just make the "launch" instant damage that triggers at the same time a projectile would hit.

End result would be pretty awesome. To be fair, my preferred one wouldn't be perfectly mirrored, because you could see who project was going to hit but not shock.
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#44 Oct 04 2012 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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BioWare would rather expand the window than shorten the drapes.

The Project change is thanks to PvP Sages bitching about not having an instant cast ranged attack for preventing node caps. Apparently Telekinetic Throw does not count as instant cast because it's channeled or something. My Assassin is looking forward to his 30m instant cast as well...

Edited, Oct 4th 2012 6:36pm by Mazra
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#45 Oct 04 2012 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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I get why they wanted the change, I just don't think we needed an instant-cast, instant-damage ability. Sages already have a ton of tricks to play with.

They should have delayed Shock so that Consulars and Inquisitors were equal, not have destroyed everything awesome about Project. :(
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#46 Oct 06 2012 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Anyone remember this article?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-08-01-star-wars-the-old-republic-could-attract-upwards-of-50-million-monthly-players-says-wedbush

I want to be an analyst when I grow up. It's apparently easier than being a weatherman.
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#47 Oct 06 2012 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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I think the careful wording here is important. It has the potential to attract 10 million players in the long term with up to 50 million possible.

Meaning: If EA plays their cards right, and very actively invests in advertising and content updates, TOR could definitely have 10 million players in 3-5 years, and if they expand into other markets could be seeing much larger numbers with an arbitrary limit being set at 50 because while we seriously doubt we'd see more than 20M, something like 30 is still possible so we might as well set the number really high because it would be great cred if we were actually right.
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#48 Oct 07 2012 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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They're assuming Titan will fall through and a lot of WoW players will jump to TOR?

Guessing is fun! I should totally be an analyst. Hmm... I've looked over the numbers carefully and I can with 100% certainty say that the sky could potentially rain fire and water could potentially turn to blood within the next 2,000 years. Now gimme my money!
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#49 Oct 07 2012 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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Do we even have a release year yet for Titan? I'm guessing it's not really being seriously included in any predictions, because it could come out next year or five years from now. It could be F2P, limited F2P or sub-based. It might not work for a wide graphical range, or it might fail to bring in the hardcore crowd of gamers necessary for the health of a sub game. Etc, etc, etc.

Plus, remember, because they aren't talking about subscribers for TOR, but simply monthly active users, the launch of a new MMO doesn't need to mean death unless people drop it completely. And with it being free, and if BioWare continues to deliver quality content during that time, it wouldn't be surprising to see if the drop in population is relatively minor.

I'm sure they'd see a big dip in sub players though.
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#50 Nov 05 2012 at 3:43 AM Rating: Good
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Did Blizzard mention what Titan is? Well other than it'll be a MMORPG.
#51 Nov 05 2012 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Nope, next to nothing is known. We don't even know if it WILL be an mmorpg, it could be an mmofps game, or both.

Besides a few bits of concept art, and them saying that it's already playable, we have nothing.
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