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tanking 101 questionsFollow

#1 Mar 21 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
I have some questions for anyone out there who knows tanking mechanics and macro exp.

1) When blocking: Lets say i have 30% block chance. does that mean EVERY attack on me i have a 30% to block or is it only melee or only physical damage ect? What happens when i block? Does it then add in the armor from my shield or is that permanent while equipped? Is there a flat damage mitigation specific to each shield or by armor amount if not? Does things like the paladin Unyielding Defense apply to the shields set mitigation or to some preset value somewhere? How is block/dodge/parry calculated on an incoming hit? is it a total (all three added) or is it ran by each separate or by dodge/parry first then by block? (ig: attack rolls into the 40% range which is enough to pass by my dodge of 10% (random number) and my parry also 10% but then... (if its all three then block+dodge+parry=50% and attack was mitigated)? When stacking mitigation i always try for dodge first, parry second, and block last but I've noticed a trend with block abilities healing and also adding threat so should i change dodge first, block second, and parry last? Does the counter attack proc off from parry by chance?

2) Survivability versus threat and : Is there a cap that i should be setting on mitigation before i push deeper into threat creation? like W.O.W. has a hit cap, uncritable and uncrushable limits. Do bosses do crushing blows or have a set crit bonus?

3) scaling: "soul feast" and "soul devour", soul feast gives 50% healing from soul sickness then soul devour adds an additional 50% healing. Is that 50% of the 50% for a total of 75% or is it 100%?

4) Macros: I'm trying to build a pal34/reaver22/warlord10 build and i have a lot of different AOE agro grabbers with lengthy cool downs. Is there a way to make a single macro that does something like.

use: "judgement" unless on cool down then use "concussion" and if thats on cool down use "grim lure" ect.

And i also want to make a macro like the one i had in WOW that does something like:

target targets target /say you have agro, please back down till i can get it under control <name>
re-target target
when targets target = <self> /say I have agro, cont dps <name>
re-target target

which is a simple clicky that allows me to see who has my agro, tells them to back down, re-targets my target (maybe even runs a 3 second auto agro pop ability) so i can regain my agro, then says when to hit the gas again all with ONE simple click. (my friend wrote it for me on WOW)

And lastly a macro that auto casts things at a set hp limit. Like "master of the abyss" at 20% health or below (in case on global cooldown or ability cool down?

Thanks all
#2 Mar 22 2012 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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blackguardsmash wrote:
1) When blocking: Lets say i have 30% block chance. does that mean EVERY attack on me i have a 30% to block or is it only melee or only physical damage ect? What happens when i block? Does it then add in the armor from my shield or is that permanent while equipped? Is there a flat damage mitigation specific to each shield or by armor amount if not? Does things like the paladin Unyielding Defense apply to the shields set mitigation or to some preset value somewhere? How is block/dodge/parry calculated on an incoming hit? is it a total (all three added) or is it ran by each separate or by dodge/parry first then by block? (ig: attack rolls into the 40% range which is enough to pass by my dodge of 10% (random number) and my parry also 10% but then... (if its all three then block+dodge+parry=50% and attack was mitigated)? When stacking mitigation i always try for dodge first, parry second, and block last but I've noticed a trend with block abilities healing and also adding threat so should i change dodge first, block second, and parry last? Does the counter attack proc off from parry by chance?

I don't know the order, but Dodge/Parry mitigate 100% physical. Block check calculates whether you block and then how much you block. Google Ciderhelm and review the tanking theory there. The builds are out-of-date but the theory is pretty well aligned.

blackguardsmash wrote:
2) Survivability versus threat and : Is there a cap that i should be setting on mitigation before i push deeper into threat creation? like W.O.W. has a hit cap, uncritable and uncrushable limits. Do bosses do crushing blows or have a set crit bonus?

Sorry don't know details, but the Toughness Stat for PVE and Valor stat for PVP govern that as well as Defense, Block and Calling mitigation, buffs, etc.

blackguardsmash wrote:
3) scaling: "soul feast" and "soul devour", soul feast gives 50% healing from soul sickness then soul devour adds an additional 50% healing. Is that 50% of the 50% for a total of 75% or is it 100%?

You can test this but I believe it is 50+50 for 100%

blackguardsmash wrote:
4) Macros: I'm trying to build a pal34/reaver22/warlord10 build and i have a lot of different AOE agro grabbers with lengthy cool downs. Is there a way to make a single macro that does something like.

use: "judgement" unless on cool down then use "concussion" and if thats on cool down use "grim lure" ect.


Right now THE top pure mitigation build is 38Reaver/20Warlord/8Paladin. Yes macros follow a "fall-through" principle in that in the list of commands it will execute the first command it can and then stop

/cast Aggressive Block
/cast Soul Sickness
/cast Empowering Strike
/cast Retailiation

Press once > Aggressive Block procs, Press Twice > Soul Sickness procs, (Retaliation reactive hits) Press again during Global Cooldown (GCD) > Retaliation procs, (Aggressive Block is off cooldown) press again > Aggressive Block procs, press again > Empowering Strike procs

blackguardsmash wrote:
And i also want to make a macro like the one i had in WOW that does something like:

target targets target /say you have agro, please back down till i can get it under control <name>
re-target target
when targets target = <self> /say I have agro, cont dps <name>
re-target target

which is a simple clicky that allows me to see who has my agro, tells them to back down, re-targets my target (maybe even runs a 3 second auto agro pop ability) so i can regain my agro, then says when to hit the gas again all with ONE simple click. (my friend wrote it for me on WOW)

You can, but as a tank with targeting a little wonky, you'd be hard pressed to get that to work reliably. Plus at 16 Warlord you get Intercept which you can macro to target a high DPS or healer and redirects their threat to you.

blackguardsmash wrote:
And lastly a macro that auto casts things at a set hp limit. Like "master of the abyss" at 20% health or below (in case on global cooldown or ability cool down?

Thanks all


As far as I know only abilities with those conditions in them work like that. You really have to decide when to hit these cooldown abilities which is cool actually.
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#3 Mar 26 2012 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
so then...

/cast tempest
/cast sweeping strike
/cast aggressive block
/cast ragestorm
/cast discharge

would cycle through all of those in cascading order until it hits one that the CD (and/or pact requirement isn't met for discharge) isn't on then casts it and i can just clicky on it over and over to keep swatting away?

#4 Mar 27 2012 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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you may want to change your macros... putting retaliation last means it wont fire off, you want it first

melee range:
/cast Retaliation
/cast Disarming Counterblow
/cast Aggressive Block
/cast Empowering Strike (Ravaging Strike) .. depending if you want to buff your armor or cut theirs

ranged attacks:
/cast Plague Bringer
/cast Infestation
/cast Soul Sickness

that will get you 2 decent macros to learn and build from.
when making macros you want the important ones first then as you progress with clicks, the longer reuse timers down to instants last.

Doralei
Righteous Bane
Shatterbone Server
#5 Mar 29 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
The more i dig into tanking specs the more i see reaver 30something / warlord 16 / paladin 12 and dont get me wrong, the mitigation given by both the warlord and the paladin are epic but in the end its all the same cookie cutter build. throw aoe dots, reap health returns, mitigate and retaliate, die of boredom.. The gear changes but the button clicks are the same stale combo.

So, i looked into void knight instead of reaver. I see you loose a good chunk of damage reduction but you do get a lot of fun abilities. My question is.. Is this viable for tanking? Will that much of a loss of mitigation and health regen (from dots) make me unhealable endgame? Would "rift shield" be able to make up a chunk of that loss by tossing up a 650 hp shield every 30 seconds, "replenish" adding in return healing and "fusion of flesh" sucking up a few thousand damage every 3 mins? Cant seem to spec far enough into void to get singularity without taking away MASSIVE mitigation from either Pal or Warlord so im kinda stuck..

The way it sits for damage reduction:
void: -8% damage
ravenous defense: -3% damage
call to entrench: -8%
gift of the void/pal/warlrd: -25%
TOTAL: -44%

Mitigation:
shield of the hero: 5% (block)
stawald shield: 5% (block)
aggressive block: 10% (block)
defensive experience: 5% (block)
TOTAL BLOCK: 25%
enhanced dodge: 5% (dodge)
battlefield awareness: 3% (dodge)
TOTAL DODGE: 8%

Total mitigation: 33%

Healing:
touch of life: 5 min CD (instant hp top off)
replenish: (no cd) 6% endurance every time a pact is gained (one devouring blow with 3 points (gains 4 pacts with power leech) figures to 24% of endurance and has no CD) What is endgame Endurance look like? 600? 1000?

Threat:
+50%
3 second Threat clickies point target:
Spark, Shield Throw, Sergeants Orders

3 second Threat clickies AOE:
Air burst, Cracking Skulls

But what i like is all the abilities for actual attack cycles!!! not just spread dots.. tick... tick.. spam single attack.. repeat.


http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0cghE.xe0VIoVudz.xhRz.VE000z.-5

#6 Apr 04 2012 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Have a look at:

http://bluedots.org/showthread.php?89-The-Utility-Tank-or-how-to-bring-back-the-fun-into-tanking&p=446#post446

Its a great tank for 5 man's, lots of fun and U are part of the fight all the time. Still the loss in mitigation wrt Reaver is huge, so its not advisable for HK.
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