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Cleric Callings OrganizationFollow

#1 Mar 07 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
After reading some of this organization, I just have to post this.

Regarding Clerics:

Inquisitor's main build is a Caster. That is, Ranged DPS. We sit back and toss very deadly spells at people. They are single target powerhouse Casters.

Cabalists are also Casters. That is, Ranged DPS. They specialize in devastating AoE.

Druids are Melee. That is, Melee DPS. They specialize in burst on single targets at melee range, and do great with a 2 handed weapon, like a BFHammer.

Shaman are also Melee. That is, Melee DPS. They are more of the AoE/Survivability melee class.

Justicar are tanks, support healers, or Melee DPS. They are very solid AoE tanks, and could so some slight bit of off healing and DPS, but are most effective at tanking.

I'm not sure why the navigation bar has the following setup:

Soul Builder > Builds by Calling > Cleric

Healer > Purifier, Sentinel, Templar (PvP), Warden [This one makes sense]
Melee DPS > Inquisitor, Justicar, Shaman [It should be Druid, Justicar, Shaman]
Ranged DPS > Cabalist, Druid [It should be Inquisitor, Cabalist]


This sort of mistake is occuring all over the pre-designed Soul Trees as well. It only takes one human brain an hour of gameplay, or 5 minutes of reading tooltips to notice that the Druid's main attacks are at Melee range and with a Melee weapon equipped. It takes the same human brain even less time to simply look at the spells for Inquisitor and see they are all done at Range.

While it won't make much of a difference to someone who has some experience with these roles, the organization (or lack thereof) could confuse newer players, and also takes away from the credibility of this site as a whole.

If you think I'm lying, try using Fervent Strike or Wild Strike, both Druid, and both of which requires a Melee Weapon, and both of which are usable in Melee Range... at a 30 yard range. Go ahead. Back up, and see if you get the same results (or any) as you would from melee range.

Is this stuff just computer generated, or what? Also, the pre-made trees share this same fallacy. It's disruptively annoying. Please fix them.
#2 Mar 08 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
/bump

...since the issue has not yet been fixed.
#3 Mar 15 2011 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
...Still no fix, and still no reason for why you haven't changed it.

I see you added a tank field to the section, posthumously... but still didn't change the melee dps and ranged dps setups.

Parts of this site must be computer generated.
#4 Mar 18 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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The callings are built by the Build Lists.

Types that people build for their DPS/Healing/Tanking whatever builds when they make one. That's about the extent of the computer generation.

If you have a problem with it, then talk to the players that play with those builds :) heh.

There is no 'standard' builds in this game, which I think you seem to believe. I mean, ya you can take all 3 melee souls for clerics (for example), but you don't have to. In fact, a lot of people take one or two of the caster ones (healing or a dps) because even as a cleric, there is magic damage involved, so any 'magic damage crit/damage value' increase talents, would benefit that type of spell.

I think that's why people take Inquisitor with some of them, especially Shaman. Shamans do physical damage, but some of their abilities deal Air Damage (for example). That is not physical, and therefore, having a spell damage increase would increase the air damage of that particular attack. Even if it's a damage over time, it would increase it. Inquisitor has a tier 1 5% Crit Damage, which would help cause those dots can crit :)

I hope that helps understand why it's like that, and why it probably won't change. I mean, you can always save a build with all 3 melee souls, and the more people choose it, the higher it will show up as "popular" builds :)
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#5 Mar 18 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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I think he's talking about Zam's top bar up there that lists cleric souls incorrectly, and he's right. Druid and Inquisitor should be switched.

That being said, this does not seem to me to be that critical a problem that it needs to be fixed right this second or the world is going to end (which was the impression I got from the OP and subsequent bumps). You clearly know enough about the calling to figure out that this is an issue and therefore are not being misled by it.

I would suggest though that if you're really concerned about this and want to get it fixed, you should post about it in the Site Feedback Forum linked here for your convenience.
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#6 Mar 18 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Default
12 posts
Kardall wrote:
The callings are built by the Build Lists.

Types that people build for their DPS/Healing/Tanking whatever builds when they make one. That's about the extent of the computer generation.

If you have a problem with it, then talk to the players that play with those builds :) heh.


heh... No. I have a problem with your website classification only. Again... go to Soul Builder > Builds by Calling > Cleric... Druid is categorized as ranged dps, and Inquisitor is categorized as melee dps. They should be switched.

Quote:

There is no 'standard' builds in this game, which I think you seem to believe. I mean, ya you can take all 3 melee souls for clerics (for example), but you don't have to. In fact, a lot of people take one or two of the caster ones (healing or a dps) because even as a cleric, there is magic damage involved, so any 'magic damage crit/damage value' increase talents, would benefit that type of spell.


I get all of this. What I'm talking about is the main spec... you know, the tree you would dump 51 points into. If you dump 51 points into Inquisitor, it is not a melee. Likewise, if you dump 51 points into Druid, it is not ranged. Therefore, Shaman is a "melee dps" soul that can be augmented by other (even ranged) souls. Druid itself is not a ranged soul. Likewise, Inquisitor itself is not a melee soul.

Quote:

I think that's why people take Inquisitor with some of them, especially Shaman. Shamans do physical damage, but some of their abilities deal Air Damage (for example). That is not physical, and therefore, having a spell damage increase would increase the air damage of that particular attack. Even if it's a damage over time, it would increase it. Inquisitor has a tier 1 5% Crit Damage, which would help cause those dots can crit :)


Sure, you can make whatever kind of hybrids you want, and that's part of the beauty of it, but to say a main spec Druid is ranged is absolute crap, no matter how you justify it. You say there are no standard builds, but offer the four classifications: "tank, healer, melee dps, and ranged dps". I'm not arguing about the builds... I could care less what someone uses as their builds. All I'm saying is that on your website platform you have Druid in the ranged dps category and Inquisitor in the melee dps category.

Quote:

I hope that helps understand why it's like that, and why it probably won't change. I mean, you can always save a build with all 3 melee souls, and the more people choose it, the higher it will show up as "popular" builds :)


What? Your base category for Druid is that it is Ranged DPS. This is a category someone working with you put into place. No matter how often someone toggles the little builds, the classification I am talking about won't change... or are you saying that it will change depending on how many people use the soul in a melee build? If so, there are so very many soul tree builds that were created and placed on the website, all of them under the heading, "Druid - Ranged DPS". If what you have said is true, whoever posted your initial setups was misinformed, and has thrown your entire system off balance in this regard.

Druid is melee... if you are putting your points into Druid to use the Druid skills, if you want the Satyr, etc. you are going to be playing a melee class. Just because you put Cabalist and Warden (as examples) onto your tree as well does not make your Druid ranged. It also does not make you an "off-healer" or an "off-ranged". It makes you a melee dps with some added spices to help you out in various ways.

Its an organization issue, is all... something which you are obviously pleased to be wrong about. How a role with eight different skills requiring a melee weapon, and used at melee range, is entitled to a "ranged dps" classification is beyond me.


#7 Mar 18 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I think he's talking about Zam's top bar up there that lists cleric souls incorrectly, and he's right. Druid and Inquisitor should be switched.

That being said, this does not seem to me to be that critical a problem that it needs to be fixed right this second or the world is going to end (which was the impression I got from the OP and subsequent bumps). You clearly know enough about the calling to figure out that this is an issue and therefore are not being misled by it.

I would suggest though that if you're really concerned about this and want to get it fixed, you should post about it in the Site Feedback Forum linked here for your convenience.


Thank you... this is all I was and have been saying. And no, I don't think the world is going to end... see how old this thread is, with only one or two responses, and no change. Its fair of me to keep the post from being buried beneath the pile of, "oh my build is so cool" and "this game is not WoW" threads.
#8 Mar 18 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Azidonis wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
I think he's talking about Zam's top bar up there that lists cleric souls incorrectly, and he's right. Druid and Inquisitor should be switched.

That being said, this does not seem to me to be that critical a problem that it needs to be fixed right this second or the world is going to end (which was the impression I got from the OP and subsequent bumps). You clearly know enough about the calling to figure out that this is an issue and therefore are not being misled by it.

I would suggest though that if you're really concerned about this and want to get it fixed, you should post about it in the Site Feedback Forum linked here for your convenience.


Thank you... this is all I was and have been saying. And no, I don't think the world is going to end... see how old this thread is, with only one or two responses, and no change. Its fair of me to keep the post from being buried beneath the pile of, "oh my build is so cool" and "this game is not WoW" threads.


Given the posting frequency in this forum, I don't think this was ever really in danger of being buried in a week. The fact remains though that you're posting it in the wrong place if you actually want something done about it. This board is for players to discuss amongst themselves and is not frequented by the Zam admins responsible for site design. The place for that is the feedback forum I linked earlier

BTW, the Builds by Type section is wrong in the same way, as long as you're posting about one instance of this you may as well mention that one as well
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#9 Mar 18 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:

Given the posting frequency in this forum, I don't think this was ever really in danger of being buried in a week. The fact remains though that you're posting it in the wrong place if you actually want something done about it. This board is for players to discuss amongst themselves and is not frequented by the Zam admins responsible for site design. The place for that is the feedback forum I linked earlier


Agreed.

Quote:

BTW, the Builds by Type section is wrong in the same way, as long as you're posting about one instance of this you may as well mention that one as well


I was under the impression that changing the initial setup would change the classification of builds whose main interest was that type. I could see how they would shy away from fixing a classification that would require them to change the classification of many builds within the original classification.

As I said, it's a small issue... an organization issue, nothing more. It's an eyesore to me, but many may find it irrelevant.
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