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Saboteur - so much fun in PvPFollow

#1 Mar 01 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I rerolled on the correct ZAM shard (Laethys), and went from B/R/N to S/RNG/R. Exploding things is just SO much fun. The Ranger pet works wonderfully in PvE to keep aggro off of me, and then I apply 3-5 charges on an enemy (depending on the type) and blast them, usually with one shot. If they are still alive I either snipe them from range or get in close, build a combo point or two and use Guarded Steel. It was an interesting way to level (hit 13 last night), but it just got insane in warfronts.

INSANE burst. I topped the charts for kills and was highly placed for favor. My best bet was to find someone duking it out with another player, toss on some charges, and when they hit half health instantly kill them. Shadow Shift is great for getting out of trouble if I get focus fire, and combined with adhesive bomb I can stay pretty safe from melee classes. My only real issue has been healers or someone getting healed - I can't usually take them down one-on-one. I also have a very limited bag of tricks - Saboteur works amazingly well with distracted players, but if someone notices their charges they'll try to LoS or heal.

Using this build right now: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MTpN.VMM.m.m

It's not bad, but the points in Ranger feel a bit wasted (my pet would die if I ever got more than one enemy so I wanted the heal). Might respec to go further in Saboteur earlier. The extra damage talents are so close... any way, I highly recommend it. Saboteur does burst fantastically, but that's all I really see it used for. My rift-hunting ability is lower than my last rogue, my survivability will be less until I go further into Riftstalker... but it's worth it to watch some go from 60% health to dead in a split second Smiley: grin Getting a 590 damage crit at level 12 felt great!

Edit: Also amazing for slaying fang carriers. They almost always have heals on them, but timing the explosion right after they take martyr damage is a sure-fire kill.

Edited, Mar 1st 2011 10:41am by LockeColeMA
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#2 Mar 01 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I hear a lot of people complaining about that sabo explosion with max charges, I know the pain of it too :P I was playing codex on my 24 war with 2.2K hp and got crit for 1.6k from a fully charged sabo.

I am now playing a rogue but havn't tried out the sabo tree yet.

Just a comment on your build, the 4 points into Unseen Fury are probably a waste at your level because if you look at how much attack power you actually have, 12% is going to give you almost nothing most likely? Spending 4 points at a low level to gain a few attack seems bad whereas you might be able to shift them into the sabo tree to get Increased Explosive Power or something else that will make your burst even more ridiculous? I can't remember how it will force you to distrube them between trees at your level but i'm betting you can get 2 or 3 of those points into sabo and then 1 to max out Eagle Eye in ranger.
#3 Mar 01 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
Ok this is redundant becuase I just posted it in the other thread but yeah Sab is a blast. I have it as one of my rolls for PVP as well. It's a bit boring in PvE though imo.

If you look at the way Sab works its really interesting. Compare it to say my Nightblade/Assasin build. If I am stabing someone for 75-100 a stab (500) then finishing with a 500-700 crit then I just hit them for 1200 in the same exact time it takes a sab to build 5 charges for detonate and hit them for 1200 crit.

But it makes people panic. They don't realize you are on them. Until you blam half their life.

The only mildy OP thing is that you can do all this from range while running your *** off and dropping snare bombs or plane shifing with the rift 0 point. I would argue that a Marks can do virtually the same thing with a speed boost to boot but because the damage is not end loaded people realize they are under fire earlier and start healing before its to late.

Mixing in 1-2 stun charges or loading a guy up with 5 aoe charges in a crowd is just icing on the slightly OP cake heh.

Also the charges crit together rather than individually which gives you a better percentage.

For now though enjoy it while it lasts. :)


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#4 Mar 01 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mukkai wrote:
Just a comment on your build, the 4 points into Unseen Fury are probably a waste at your level because if you look at how much attack power you actually have, 12% is going to give you almost nothing most likely? Spending 4 points at a low level to gain a few attack seems bad whereas you might be able to shift them into the sabo tree to get Increased Explosive Power or something else that will make your burst even more ridiculous? I can't remember how it will force you to distrube them between trees at your level but i'm betting you can get 2 or 3 of those points into sabo and then 1 to max out Eagle Eye in ranger.


The main reason I went with the 4 in Rift was to get the Endurance Buff, a plus in PvP to be sure. The attack power is a minor boost for my charges, and I think I can only toss a point or two extra in Sabo right now. But yeah, the buff is lackluster for sure at this level Smiley: smile
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#5 Mar 06 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to moderate my earlier enthusiasm. Before it seems like my Sab was "INSANE burst." Now that I've played around with it a bit more (24 now) I think it feels pretty balanced. My damage isn't bad, but it takes about 8 seconds to set up and execute a high-powered attack. Even at its best, my attacks maybe take down a person about 50% of their health in PvP (60-70% if I get incredibly lucky with crits). Usually I don't use my basic damaging charges though, because I'd rather have a snare, or a stun, or do AoE damage.

That said, the further I go in Sab, the more impressed I am with what it can accomplish. Instead of taking an enemy down 60% of their health, I can take them down 40% but also apply a 2 second stun, a 20% snare, a nice DoT, and do AoE damage (a small amount, maybe 150-200). I've come to think that Saboteurs have a lot of utility, OR they can do a lot of damage. They excel at finishers - someone else being attacked? Great! Wait for that 50% mark and BLAM! Down them.

I do feel pretty squishy at times though, but I'm getting better at kiting. With Concussive shot from Ranger, Caltop Charges, and Adhesive Bomb, I can kite melee classes quite well. Speaking of bombs, WHOA, totally overlooked part of Saboteur when I started it! I have four (I think?) now - Time bomb is fun in PvP but can be hard to, ha, time. Adhesive is awesome; then I have a basic AoE damage bomb (good for a quick small amount of damage), and my annihilation bomb, which besides having the best name ever, is an instant AoE damage and 2 second stun (great when I get jumped).

So yeah. Saboteur in my mind has gone from "INSANE BURST" to "Very good burst, great utility, awesome finisher." Anyone else having as much fun as me? Smiley: grin
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#6 Mar 06 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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they are very squishy indeed, and once i identify one in a WF i am sure to make quick work of em then move on to the bard/healer. :P
#7 Mar 06 2011 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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As a warden, I can greatly reduce how effective saboteurs are IF I can see their charges amidst the 20-25 other buffs/debuffs on a player. Sadly this is difficult to do. I do wonder what priority they get in the debuff line.

The burst damage isn't that bad. They tend to take around half my hp, but I'm nowhere close to being one-shotted by them. I realize I wear chain, but I believe they have a talent that makes their bombs ignore about 50% of armor.
#8 Mar 07 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes indeed we do have an ignore armor buff, and your intentions on killing Sabs, just encites me to look for more ways to be OP. EXTREMELY OP. I love the class, but while some took the MM calling, I went with the Asassin calling. I'll not run away from anything, I'll stand toe to toe and try to disintergrate them. It is just too much fun to load yp a max charge, and put on a Time Bomb and send a detonation charge while hitting the detonate button. It leaves anything I tag a ple of bloody pulp. LMAO. Just loving the Sabs too much...



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Edited, Mar 7th 2011 11:43am by Goshian
#9 Mar 07 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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^ You're delirious!
#10 Mar 10 2011 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
Here is my build that I am currently using for pve/pvp.http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MiTb.V0x.qMM0Ezhk I have one open soul so I can hot swap between rang/rift/inf. I have tested the nb talents just to double check and the 5/5 in blazing fury does work with our charges. I like this build because it is very versatile. Let me know what you think.
#11 Mar 11 2011 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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cerealthriller wrote:
Here is my build that I am currently using for pve/pvp.http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MiTb.V0x.qMM0Ezhk I have one open soul so I can hot swap between rang/rift/inf. I have tested the nb talents just to double check and the 5/5 in blazing fury does work with our charges. I like this build because it is very versatile. Let me know what you think.


So I just tested it and saw no damage boost.

I did around 30 tests of blast charges, single with detonations and they ranged form min of 63 to a high of 82, on non crits.

Put 5 points into blazing fury, same results.

Too bad it doesn't work otherwise the bonus from heat retention would be awesome.

Since they are non damaging abilities this leaves an awesome option open though.

If you get blinding powder from assassin it confuses the enemy for 10 seconds so they cant do anything until you use a damaging ability. This could be great to come out of no where, blind them set up some charges - mash paralyzing strike/assassinate/jagged strike for the 15% damage bonus and BOOM!!!!

I'm looking at something similar to this - defiantly a draft build that i'm going to work on where I use Sab main as "utility dps". By that I mean taking out strategic targets when needed, and causing general mayhem with the bombs. I need to look at other classes to find maby some debuffs or just some self survivability, but I think the class could play really well as that sort of role.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1MMTb.0AMbt0b0z.EmM0EzxkoMz.xb
#12 Mar 11 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
That's odd, are sure you looked at the damage you did from your charges because; I noticed an increase of about 100 points of damage with 5 charges.

I'll have to go back and check this again. Thanks for looking into it. I like your idea with assas. as well.

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 8:24am by cerealthriller


Okay so I went back and tested it again and it does work. I did the math just to make sure. I was doing 44 damage without the 5/5 in blazing fury and with it I was doing 50. So (44*.15=6.6; 44+6.6=50.6) now this was on a 50 target dummy and I am only 27. I think it makes a much bigger difference when the targets are closer to your level.

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 10:52am by cerealthriller
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