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[Mage-PvE] Confused about the Trees...Follow

#1 Feb 18 2011 at 10:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't post on the official Rift forums, so I figured I'd post here.

I'm absolutely confused on how to make a proper build for PvE. I plan to make an effective PvE build for leveling, dungeons, raiding, etc. As I was trying to make a build, I was pretty confused. I was inside the game, looking at the suggested pairings for each soul, and I'd constantly hit road blocks.

Some souls had a slew of PvP talents and abilities which made it a bit hard to navigate through to grab the PvE goodies. Other souls were littered with what I found to be useless for PvE but were unavoidable PvP talents I had to grab to reach the next tier. A few others had their top tier talent as a PvP centric ability. I was having such a difficult time trying to make a leveling build and eventually a dungeons and raids build because of it.

The only build I was able to come up with that didn't feel frustrating to navigate through was the War/Nec/Chl pairing and it's probably because it feels much more compact and straight-forward compared to the other builds I attempted to make with minimal PvP talents:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1zwvR.xbctm.eeMhoVVxz.x0h

Even then, I'm not sure it's a proper build for PvE. I was hoping there would be a drop-down list with community submitted builds on the Soul Builder which can be similar to Aion, but it doesn't seem the option is there. I'm hoping something similar will be implemented at a later date.

All in all, I'm enjoying the open Beta quite a bit but I'm absolutely confused on how to navigate through the swath of PvP oriented talents and abilities of the other souls. I had planned to make 4 roles: DPS (Warlock), Pet DPS (undecided, probably Necromancer since Elementalist seems a bit confusing for me to build), Enhance DPS (undecided, though Dom seems more PvP centric, so likely Archon), and Healing DPS (Archmage, obviously... Kidding, Chloromancer). Chloromancer doesn't seem like it'd be a very difficult build to make for PvE, just heavy on points.

tl;dr I just don't understand how to make a PvE build while navigating through all the PvP talents in most souls. Some souls even seem to be heavily PvP-oriented. I don't think it helps that Mages are supposedly the least popular class according to the official forums. Does it have to do with the Mage trees or are all Callings' Soul Trees like that? Is it because some Souls are indeed PvP oriented and War/Nec/Chl is PvE oriented? Can I get some help?

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 1:15am by Beregren
#2 Feb 19 2011 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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Beregren wrote:
Some souls had a slew of PvP talents and abilities which made it a bit hard to navigate through to grab the PvE goodies. Other souls were littered with what I found to be useless for PvE but were unavoidable PvP talents I had to grab to reach the next tier. A few others had their top tier talent as a PvP centric ability. I was having such a difficult time trying to make a leveling build and eventually a dungeons and raids build because of it.

There is only 1 PvP focused soul in each of the callings (for Mage this is Archmage, which you should entirely avoid for PvE). The Other 8 are general purpose, with largely abilities that apply to PvE.

While I don't have as much knowledge on mages as I do other callings I do know that certain mage souls pair very well with each other, such as Pyromancer and Elemental Summoner. Here's a sample Pyromancer build. Pyromancers get a lot of crit on one of their main spells, and elementalist offers additional crit chance and crit damage. Their main weakness is how quickly they can burn through mana. Primarily you'll be using Smoldering Power to help you conserve mana, but Archon offers additional tools to help keep it up.

The War/NEcro/Chloro pairing you were looking at is quite good for solo pvp leveling.

Even then, I'm not sure it's a proper build for PvE. I was hoping there would be a drop-down list with community submitted builds on the Soul Builder which can be similar to Aion, but it doesn't seem the option is there. I'm hoping something similar will be implemented at a later date.



Beregren wrote:
tl;dr I just don't understand how to make a PvE build while navigating through all the PvP talents in most souls. Some souls even seem to be heavily PvP-oriented. I don't think it helps that Mages are supposedly the least popular class according to the official forums. Does it have to do with the Mage trees or are all Callings' Soul Trees like that? Is it because some Souls are indeed PvP oriented and War/Nec/Chl is PvE oriented? Can I get some help?

I guess I simply don't understand what you are referring to when you talk about all these PvP abilities. Only 1 soul is pvp focused, and that is Archmage. Stuns and Roots aren't just for PvP. For exmaple, The Pyromancer Burning Bonds ability can be upgrade to not break on damage. Not having a PvE mob hitting your clothy for lots of damage and setting back your cast time is a very useful soloing tool. Flicker frees you from crowd control effects, but this isn't primarily a PvP ability. In the very first Guardian instance one of the bosses just loves to turn party members into rabbits.
#3 Feb 19 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thank you, your post was amazingly helpful.

I understand what you mean about stuns and roots being useful in PvE as well. I guess I'm just used to playing MMOs where those abilities are rarely used in PvE, save for one boss here or there, or certain quests. Your Pyro build was similar to what I had tried to come up with so I guess I'm not on the wrong track as much as I thought.

Edited, Feb 19th 2011 11:25am by Beregren
#4 Feb 20 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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I'd strongly suggest finding a Soul that has some form of Mana recharge ability. I went Elemetal/Pyro/Dominator and I can burn through mana SO FAST. Aside from burst damage, I'm nearly useless in a long fight. Thankfully, at 15 you can open up all the other souls and spend a bit of cash to gain access to a whole other soul list. (Forget the official term, but you can switch between the first set of souls and a second set so long as you're not in combat).
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#5 Feb 20 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
I'd strongly suggest finding a Soul that has some form of Mana recharge ability. I went Elemetal/Pyro/Dominator and I can burn through mana SO FAST. Aside from burst damage, I'm nearly useless in a long fight. Thankfully, at 15 you can open up all the other souls and spend a bit of cash to gain access to a whole other soul list. (Forget the official term, but you can switch between the first set of souls and a second set so long as you're not in combat).


I'd suggest 6 points in warlock to get sacrifice life: mana which will convert your hp to mana. You'll also be able to pick up a couple DoTs, one of which heals you a little, and a talent that increases the amount of charge you gain by a flat percentage. If you spend 8 points you also get a spell that converts charge to hp.

Alternatively you can spend 8 points in necro and get reclaim power, which will suck health off your pet and convert it to mana. I assume it can be used on elementalist pets. You also get a DoT, a rogue type pet, and can pick up the consumption talent which removes a buff from an enemy and turns it into mana for you. The pet can't really tank, can't be used alongside the elementalist pet, and it maxes out at level 30. To get the tank pet you need to spend 12 points and to get level 31+ pets you need to spend 21 points.

8 points in dominator also gets you the ability to drain mana from your enemies with a channeled ability. Although the ability takes a considerable amount of time to use since it's channeled and you don't get much out of the class besides transmognify which you can already get without spending any talent points.

I'd go with the warlock dip because it requires less talent points, you get access to that charge increasing talent, and the necro pet isn't very useful if you don't spend a lot of time casting necro spells and put a lot of points into the necro tree. Healing the sacrifice shouldn't be too hard but if it is you can spend two more points in lock and get a spell that converts charge to hp.

And of course, you can change your build (role) on the fly just by casting a 2 second ability, so you can use your mana burning spec for general use and just recharge your mana out of combat with revitalize (elementalist) or drinks, and switch to a build with a better mana ability for long fights.

Edited, Feb 20th 2011 12:49pm by Necromas
#6 Feb 20 2011 at 9:46 PM Rating: Good
I'm not entirely sure how you could get so frustrated trying to make a build when your possibilities are virtually endless.

For leveling, anything with a focus on deep Elementalist, deep Necromancer or deep Chloromancer will make leveling a breeze. Here are a few builds I put together quickly and haphazardly for example.

Here's a Necro build that's great for leveling, PvP, and probably dungeons and raiding as well:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zvws.ecRhoVVxz.ExczVzkzs
- Basically, keep enough Deathly Calling stacks up to sustain your pets abilities, keep up all your DoT effects and necessary debuffs (refreshing Life Leech with Void Bolt), and channel Soul Purge until you need to refresh a debuff/dot or reapply stacks of Deathly Calling. Everything else is a matter of cool down management. While soloing, use your Skeletal Stalwart/Knight as a tank pet. For max damage, you'll probably want to drop Ancient Tomb and Clattering Bones and pick up Vengeful Spirit and maybe Consumption instead.

Here's a deep Elementalist/Stormcaller build:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zqys.Vx0t0Vttz.VMxx0xcsbo
- Just keep Hypothermia up, build up 3 stacks of Electrify, use Ice Shear, and spam Thunderbolt and Lightning Strike until you need to refresh Hypothermia or Ice Shear. For solo, use your Greater Earth Elemental as a tank. For groups, use your Greater Air Elemental for DPS.

Here's a deep Chloromancer build for ridiculous self heals, Skeletal Stalwart tank (plus a spammable heal from Necro root):

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zwRv.xxcz.EdIuqVcoRR.ccM
- Just keep up your Radiant Spores, all your DoTs and spam your life nukes while your skeleton tank pet holds aggro. Deals decent damage and keeps you alive at the same time.

While we're at it, here's a build that doesn't utilize a tank pet. A Pyro/Warlock build:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zvIz.ecRhoVVxz.xc0Izuchto
- Keep your DoTs up, and nuke away. You'll pump out a lot of damage with your pyro nukes and you'll get a little bit of self healing from Life Leech. If you want a little more self healing, you could drop Neddra's Torture or Neddra's Grasp and pick up Draining Bolt.

There's really not much that's really PvP oriented. Keep in mind that anything like self healing abilities like Life Leech and Withering Vines also makes your life easier for when you're doing solo PvE content. You'll also probably want to pick up crowd control abilities and debuff abilities for raids as well. There's not much I'd absolutely avoid for PvE. There's quite a few PvP-ish abilities in the Warlock Tree, but there's also more than enough in the tree to pick up to allow you to skip them. Dominator's only a PvP-centric tree if you're stuck in the World of Warcraft mindset. In most other MMOs, support and crowd control classes are great for PvE as well.
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#7 Feb 21 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I was just discussing a pyro build with my guild on our forums and we figured that in a PVE raid setting we had a Chloromancer who had more points spent in the Archon tree than we would be using if we used the Pyro/Elemental/Archon PVE DPS build.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zqIs.Vxxt00z.xc0Izhcuxo.x0Vh

A better build in my opinion is Pyro/Elemental/Dominator, although it really does depend on how you play. It takes one less point to get to the favored point and has some more favorable abilities. Going to copy/paste from my guild website:
Dominator gets the one CC spell that Archon doesn't get and there are several points spent to increase the effectiveness of this CC. This probably lowers the DPS, but does provide a little bit of extra function, which maybe needed in RIFT raids. Also Dom gets a dmg shield that they can put on the tank to slightly increase the raid dps (This can actually kill things if they are left unattacked for too long though. No credit for kills when this dmg shield kills a mob.) The Dom tree gives an ability that reduces threat by 80% on a 2 min CD. This might be needed after (or during) the initial burst and may prove to be one of the mage's most prized abilities. The main reason for getting the Dom tree for me over the Archon is I think the tree might provide for more mana regen when you need it. 18% (36% after point mod) mana in 6 seconds. If you have ran oom completely, it would only take 3 casts of this to get back to 100% if you use the tree I made.



#8 Feb 21 2011 at 8:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Neuroticaine wrote:
Here's a deep Chloromancer build for ridiculous self heals, Skeletal Stalwart tank (plus a spammable heal from Necro root):

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zwRv.xxcz.EdIuqVcoRR.ccM
- Just keep up your Radiant Spores, all your DoTs and spam your life nukes while your skeleton tank pet holds aggro. Deals decent damage and keeps you alive at the same time.


Unfortunately the skeletal stalwart can't get higher than level 30 so you'd have to put 21+ points in necro to get the skeletal knight to have a useful tank pet.
#9 Feb 21 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
At that point, you probably have enough self-healing going on for that to be a non-issue. It's still a solid build, that offers decent damage, and has access to a spammable heal in emergency situations for dungeons. For a purely leveling build with a similar play style, you'd probably be better off as a deep Necromancer/Warlock build anyway.
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#10 Feb 25 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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Whitekrow wrote:
I was just discussing a pyro build with my guild on our forums and we figured that in a PVE raid setting we had a Chloromancer who had more points spent in the Archon tree than we would be using if we used the Pyro/Elemental/Archon PVE DPS build.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0zqIs.Vxxt00z.xc0Izhcuxo.x0Vh

A better build in my opinion is Pyro/Elemental/Dominator, although it really does depend on how you play. It takes one less point to get to the favored point and has some more favorable abilities. Going to copy/paste from my guild website:
Dominator gets the one CC spell that Archon doesn't get and there are several points spent to increase the effectiveness of this CC. This probably lowers the DPS, but does provide a little bit of extra function, which maybe needed in RIFT raids. Also Dom gets a dmg shield that they can put on the tank to slightly increase the raid dps (This can actually kill things if they are left unattacked for too long though. No credit for kills when this dmg shield kills a mob.) The Dom tree gives an ability that reduces threat by 80% on a 2 min CD. This might be needed after (or during) the initial burst and may prove to be one of the mage's most prized abilities. The main reason for getting the Dom tree for me over the Archon is I think the tree might provide for more mana regen when you need it. 18% (36% after point mod) mana in 6 seconds. If you have ran oom completely, it would only take 3 casts of this to get back to 100% if you use the tree I made.


Regarding the Dominator tree:

Quicken Transmogrify is, hands down, the best ability on the tree. Just by being instant alone will let you cast Transmogrify on the run, and the instant cast alone opens up a lot of possibilities, like cheesing caster mobs by interrupting all of their casts.

Also, you would be committing about 13 points towards benefits using crowd control abilities, but the payoff is pretty nice:

- 5 points to get 50% spell haste for 5 seconds after you cast Transmogrify/Overpowering Will/Mass Exhaustion/Disorient
- 5 points for 50% more damage on the next spell you land a Transmogrify/Overpowering Will/Mass Exhaustion/Disorient on.
- 3 points (because of the Quicken form requirement) to let you do damage to a Transmogrify target without breaking it, as long as they are above 70% health and you're not hitting a damage cap per Transmogrify application. (example: I can channel Mana Wrench fully on a target twice with this ability before actually breaking it.)


Edit: clarifying train of thought would be a good thing to do...

Edited, Feb 25th 2011 3:34pm by Ravashack
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