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Viability of Non-Warrior Tanking ClassesFollow

#1 Feb 07 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
With limited in-game time I was curious to find out if there were any real tanking specs for non-warriors. I feel the obvious choice would be clerics. Has anyone come up with decent cleric tanking builds?


Again being pretty new, my knowledge is limited.


http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rnG.EuoqEzq00z.qe.qg

#2 Feb 07 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
For those of whom are interested in trying their own versions on Cleric Tanking builds (or any builds for that matter) the Cleric Rift Wiki page http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Cleric_%28Rift%29 has been a great resource for me thus far. Pro'lly not news to most but I figured it helped me so I'd post it.
#3 Feb 07 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
Riftstalker tanks just fine.
#4 Feb 07 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Justicars are a Cleric soul specifically designed for tanking. Riftstalkers are a rogue Soul specifically designed for tanking. MAges are the only calling out of the 4 that cannot effectively tank.
#5 Feb 09 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Any specified secondary or tertiary soul trees that compliment the Justicar tree (that have been tested)? Or is it still too soon to speculate what talents best support the main tanking tree?
#6 Feb 11 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
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62 posts
Word is, justicars will be getting a lot of overhaul with the next beta, mostly in the form of buffs aimed at making them better tanks. Rogue tanks are actually better than and easier to heal than warrior tanks a lot of the time, but thus far justicar tanks have always been scoffed at and/or complained about. It's not that they couldn't tank well, it's that it was actually really difficult to do so and required both player skill and solid gear. Justicars gain and hold aggro almost exclusively by attacking, and with the previous tank mode buff being a 40% damage reducer, this was never very easy to do.

I'd post recommended soul trees, but they wouldn't mean anything due to upcoming (probable) changes. Best supporting souls so far, however, have been shaman (practically mandatory) and either druid with 4 points into it, druid with 0 points, something random and likely useless. Best thing to do though is look at patch changes when open beta rolls around and make your best guess accordingly.

Last thing to keep in mind as a justi tank is that when tanking all of your heals except for justicar's passive lifesteal and his big cooldown burst heal are reduced by 40%.
#7 Feb 12 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
Hello everyone,

I originally started with a paladin/warlord tank build but when I started to hear about the riftstalker/bard/bladedancer build I was intrigued. I played around with it in beta 5 and absolutely love this build now. Mind you I have not gotten into the upper tier because of beta cap but I know what I want to do.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1McpV.xhz.EGtItqfRkk.x

I originally was going to go deeper in blade dancer but I started looking at the root skills in the riftstalker line and I love them. Knocking enemies back with planar explosion and removing of the harmful effects with scatter the shadows will be really nice, particularly on longer fights with more mobs in dungeons. The fact that the tank gets a cc ability with rift prison and can transfer combo point with planar switch really clinched it for me.

Really interested in hearing people's feedback.

Edited, Feb 12th 2011 10:58am by dlane0201
#8 Feb 15 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
Thanks for the feedback guys! I'd be interested to see what the open beta brings in terms of changes. I'll do my best to keep this thread updated with my own findings as well as I hope you all are able to as well. Until then, I'll be sporting a Justcar/Shaman build as originally though and suggested by 335.


Postscript,
I'm still terribly interested in the Riftstalker build as well.
#9 Feb 15 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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17 posts
Elemental Summoners, Necromancers, and even Rangers can use their pets to off-tank weaker enemies. I'm guessing if you had to go with a pet tank, then earth elementals would probably be the best. I've seen a lot mobs in rift battles kill offensive specced warriors/rogues fairly easily but then they end up get stopped by an earth elemental.

Edited, Feb 15th 2011 8:03pm by Necromas
#10 Feb 22 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
6 posts
So I've only been able to get in the early 20s with a rogue so the upper tiers of the Riftstalker elude me. The following spec is what I'll be shooting for come head-start.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1MpcV.gIthuqdRkkR.xhz.xMdzz


A lot of people are avoiding Planar Switch and some even avoiding Improved Guarded Steel and stacking points in Ruthless Stalker. If anyone can explain the rationale behind that I'd love to hear it.


In the above spec, not only did I take Planar Switch, I also put points into Rift Scavenger. While this may seem ambiguous, I hope it will actually provide latitude for the tank and avoid combo point clipping, a scenario I've been seeing a lot of, whereas the rogue builds up 3-4 points and the other DPS finish off the mob prior to rogue executing their finishing move. You'll also notice I placed quite a few points in the Blade Dancer soul tree. The purpose of this was not only to provide a means for an emergency interrupt (obviously), but also to have a ranged pull for casters. Necessary, probably not, but Having tanked WoW (yes I've gone and compared the two), and with any hope so have those following this thread, pulling casters off your DPS can be a real PITA with no interrupts.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this or other builds/abilities.


EDIT: The ranged interrupt would be Weapon Barrage

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 11:30am by Vallissa
#11 Feb 22 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
7 posts
They do work but they can lack in some cases is the only real issue. Either way I wouldn't count them out at all, its more then possible for them being effective. Really the warrior tree is better for tanking mostly since there are more tank supportive abilities is all.Even then there isn't one particular soul that fits being the best for tanking every encounter.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 4:58pm by Purutzil
#12 Feb 22 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
4 posts
I only played to mid twenties in open beta, but I really think you guys are missing a trick with Bard for tanking.

It seems to me that what a rogue tank needs more than anything is to efficiently build combo points. Especially at the start of a fight, as their finishers make up such a large part of their mitigation.

Bard gets some great tools for building combo points with Riff (5 points, 60 sec cooldown) and Power Cord (2 points, 3 sec cooldown), along with added mitigation in the form of Motif of Tenacity, and a great AOE finisher (hits 8 targets) in Coda of Fury.

Going deeper into Bard also gets you some good tanking synergies in the form of improved anthems/fanfares (defence, resists, endurance), and Motifs (group defence/damage buffs).

It's also worth noting that Bard abilities can't be blocked, dodged or parried.

At release, I think I'd like to try out something like this to see how it fared.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 7:18pm by JonesMcBones

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 7:21pm by JonesMcBones
#13 Feb 22 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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For a Justicar, I was thinking something like this.

There's a few points left to throw around. I put the PvP soul as the third pick because I wasn't too keen on the other souls, and they just give redundant abilities. Some of the higher level abilities didn't seem too 'must have' either, but I only got a Cleric up to 12 before the beta ended. >_> Mage on the other hand hit 30.
#14 Feb 22 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
6 posts
You know Jones, that's definitely something to think about in the upper echelon of 5 mans and raiding. I did a fair bit of DPS as a Bard in beta and building combo points was fairly easy. I wonder how difficult it will be later as a Riftstalker core Rogue.

I do have some questions and comments about the build you posted:

Comments first since they are more fun...

I appreciate the the Rift spell in the Bard soul tree and could really find a spot in regular tank rotation.

Motifs, while DPSing, are a phenomenal boost to your groups DPS Healing and tanking however, while you are tanking you'll have a metric sh*t-ton (I think that's an English measurement) of things to do so having the added responsibility of keeping motifs applied, I think you'll be gimping your ability to perform the most basic tank tasks like holding aggro. At the very least, you'll be maintaining Tenacity and Regen, which will take two global cool downs. Two global cool downs that, as you very astutely pointed out yourself, could be spent generating combo points.

Don't forget that Improved Guardian Phase awards players with more health per point spent in the RS tree. Though, if I could make my peace with 1%-2% less health if I was picking up something critical in another tree.

Questions...

Was there a reason you didn't go deeper into the Riftstalker tree to pick up the AoE taunt, Planar attraction? You could swap Talented Composer for just about anything in the RS tree at very minimal loss. Or was your choice simply to pick up the Anthem of Defiance buff? In which case do you feel that we'll (as tanks) need the extra resistances? Also just to note, if one was to use Anthem of Defiance religiously, one wouldn't need to put points into Anthem of Glory, but, of course, options are always nice depending on the fights.

Would your finisher rotation use Annihilate followed by Coda of Fury, or would you simply us Coda of Fury?



Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 8:50pm by Vallissa
#15 Feb 22 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Default
4 posts
Bare in mind that this is all mostly theorycraft at the moment, I can't try this out until I get in game (and I'm not early start, so March 4th for me). Maybe someone else could give it a go in the coming weeks and report back.

Vallissa wrote:
I appreciate the the Rift spell in the Bard soul tree and could really find a spot in regular tank rotation.
Riff is what attracted me to Bard in the first place, it really is a fantastic opener. Then I noticed Power Cord with its glorious 3 second cooldown...

There really is no comparison in other trees. For example, an Assassin using Subterfuge and Puncture to get the initial five points, with Cloak and Dagger adding a bit of extra mitigation. It'd probably work, but there are some downsides.

1. Assassin lacks an AOE finisher. A minor problem considering Riftstalker's AOE attacks perhaps, but still a downside.

2. Puncture pails in comparison to Power Cord for building combo points. There really is no contest.

3. The Assassin's opener requires stealth, so you can't pull. You either have to teleport to the mobs, or get someone else to pull them for you (which could get them killed in some situations).

Vallissa wrote:
Motifs, while DPSing, are a phenomenal boost to your groups DPS Healing and tanking however, while you are tanking you'll have a metric sh*t-ton (I think that's an English measurement) of things to do so having the added responsibility of keeping motifs applied, I think you'll be gimping your ability to perform the most basic tank tasks like holding aggro. At the very least, you'll be maintaining Tenacity and Regen, which will take two global cool downs. Two global cool downs that, as you very astutely pointed out yourself, could be spent generating combo points.
Yeah, good points.

In theory, Bardic Inspiration is maxed to make keeping a couple of motifs up easier. But if you find that you're not making good use of them, the points can easily go elsewhere.

Quote:
Don't forget that Improved Guardian Phase awards players with more health per point spent in the RS tree. Though, if I could make my peace with 1%-2% less health if I was picking up something critical in another tree.
Certainly, I'm hoping the loss is somewhat made up for with the 24% bonus to Fanfare of Vigor though. As well as the 24% bonus to Anthems, improving your defences.

Quote:
Questions...

Was there a reason you didn't go deeper into the Riftstalker tree to pick up the AoE taunt, Planar attraction? You could swap Talented Composer for just about anything in the RS tree at very minimal loss. Or was your choice simply to pick up the Anthem of Defiance buff? In which case do you feel that we'll (as tanks) need the extra resistances? Also just to note, if one was to use Anthem of Defiance religiously, one wouldn't need to put points into Anthem of Glory, but, of course, options are always nice depending on the fights.
Yeah, the 24 points are for Glory. There could be some situations where magic resistances are more desirable than an armour buff (and vice versa). Options are always good

If you don't want Anthem of Glory, the build works fine with 21 points in Bard. Key skills are Riff, Power Cord and Coda of Fury.

As for the AOE taunt, between Rift Disturbance, Rift Blitz, and Coda of Fury you can generate a ton of AOE threat already. The loss of one 60 second cooldown probably wouldn't be noticed... probably.

It's always nice to have another "oh sh*t" button though, especially in PUGS, where the likelihood of someone screwing up your pull is exponentially higher... The extra endurance and slightly stronger shield the points get you aren't to be sniffed at either.

Quote:
Would your finisher rotation use Annihilate followed by Coda of Fury, or would you simply us Coda of Fury?
Depends what generates more threat for a given situation really. You have the option of spamming Fury for holding multiple mobs, or just using Annihilate/Coda of Wrath on a single mob. In between keeping your shields up of course.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 11:02pm by JonesMcBones

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 11:03pm by JonesMcBones
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