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#27 Jul 04 2014 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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With the addition of Tormod's Crypt, Phyrexian Revoker and Hushwing Gryff (a.k.a. Torpor Orb on a stick) and Reclamation Sage to standard and you can almost build a W/G hatebears deck in standard. Aegis Of The Gods, Spirit Of The Labyrinth, Voice Of Resurgence and Scavenging Ooze are all powerful hatebears in standard as well

Not that that is likely to happen as there's nothing ridiculously broken to hate on but it's sure going to give people answers to anything powerful and remotely unorthodox that may be happening.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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#28 Jul 04 2014 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Hushwing Gryff

WTF is that? A horse-stork? Smiley: laugh
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#29 Jul 04 2014 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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If you were a flying horse that swallowed one of these you wouldn't look healthy either. Smiley: lol
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#30 Jul 04 2014 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hippogriff means "horse-bird" with the griff part coming from gryphus, Latin for a bird of prey.

While I assume they really refer to raptors, I suppose storks are predatory in that they feed on fish, frogs, snakes, etc.



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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#31 Jul 04 2014 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Usually Hippogryphs get the head and wings of a hawk or eagle, this one's a lot creepier.


They're still flying horses though, just horses with bird wings and beaks.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#32 Jul 04 2014 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Seige Dragon would really ruin your wall deck.
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#33 Jul 04 2014 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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I thought I bought one of the older MTG games a while back when it was on sale. Turns out I didn't. I must have just been thinking about it at the time.
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#34 Jul 04 2014 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Full M15 spoiler released: WotC to shoot Theros block in the balls with the next core set, reprints Back To Nature 1G, Instant: Destroy all enchantments


Awww that's crummy. I enjoy playing enchantments, they def are not overpowered. That's just bogus. Why kick a strategy when it isn't even a strong one?
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#35 Jul 04 2014 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Probably/possibly because in Wizards internal testing team Constellation and Heroic were a lot more powerful than it is reality. They have some very skilled Magic players in R&D but they are less focused on competitive play than the pros so WotC are often off on what the strongest decks will be.

There's definitely the potential power in constellation but it's not happening now and it's never going to be a tier 1 deck now that it can so easily be beaten by any deck capable of splashing green.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#36 Jul 04 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Now the next set just needs a card to give all enchantments indestructible. It's the circle of life!
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#37 Jul 04 2014 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Now the next set just needs a card to give all enchantments indestructible. It's the circle of life!


I hated that artifact group. I played through most of high school, took a year off around college, and then someone I met in college offered to play. Whipped an artifact deck with indestructible artifacts, and some enchantment or artifact that made all the other ones indestructible. And some artifact that gained counters every turn and after X turns he won..

I didn't pay attention to it all, seemed very broken to me at the time and it was the only deck he ever used when we played. I had a lot of different decks I had put together to have fun, as did most of my high school friends. We'd try stupid ****, most of the time it wasn't even aimed to win, but just how annoying or stupid we could be, or who could find the next infinite combo before the others. This guy was clearly out to build just one winner and stick with it.

My 4 year old decks from high school didn't stand a chance.
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#38 Jul 04 2014 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Pretty broken if you don't know what you're facing and/or have no way to fight it.

Platinum Angel is a fun card like that as well because it days you can't lose the game and opponents can't win the game. It only gives your opponent a hand full of turns to find a way to deal with a 4/4 flying artifact creature.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#39 Jul 04 2014 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Ya, he had that Platinum Angel too. How would that work if it was out and players ran out of cards? Usually that's game over, but do they just continue playing unable to draw cards?
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#40 Jul 05 2014 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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The person without a platinum angel would lose, if both have a platinum angel and neither has a way to kill it the game is a draw.

Edit: not the only way to draw actually, if the game gets in an infinite loop it is also a draw. Say for example you have 3 oblivion rings and only lands in play, since the O rings must have a target they will form a neat little circle with #1 being targeted by #2 and #2 by #3 which returns #1 to play with only #3 as a legal target so it enchants that which returns #2 to play etc.

Since neither player can stop this the game cannot end and it is a draw.

And the most famous is Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead, when AD is cast targeting the dragon the dragon comes into play and removes all other permanents from the game, this includes AD and because that is gone the dragon dies and all permanents come back into play so the AD targets the dragon again etc.
Since your lands come into play untapped you can use this to gain infinite mana and then target a creature like Oona, Queen Of The Fae in your graveyard, however if the dragon is the only creature in the graveyard the combo cannot be stopped and the game is a draw.

Edit edit: the above combo is also why Worldgorger Dragon is banned in Legacy, it's a reasonably strong combo and it can cause a lot of unfair play when people piloting the deck win the first game as they can easily make the game a draw on turn 2 leading them to win matches by winning one game and intentionally drawing the other two.

Edited, Jul 5th 2014 12:06pm by Aethien
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#41 Jul 05 2014 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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My local card haunt restricts all "infinite" combos in legacy/commander to three occurrences. So no infinite turns, mana, health, etc. While everyone appreciates the nifty-keenness of pulling off such a combo, they just found it makes the games in general more fun that way.

Of course, those games aren't ranked or anything so they have the ability to do house rules like that.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#42 Jul 05 2014 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
My local card haunt restricts all "infinite" combos in legacy/commander to three occurrences. So no infinite turns, mana, health, etc. While everyone appreciates the nifty-keenness of pulling off such a combo, they just found it makes the games in general more fun that way.

Of course, those games aren't ranked or anything so they have the ability to do house rules like that.


In high school, when I played, our group said that if you wanted to use an infinite combo, you had to preform the actions until your opponent understood the combo enough and was satisfied that it was truly infinite, and then select a number. This meant that usually anyone who really wanted to use it was forced to do each step a few dozen times before the other guy agreed and allowed him to choose some finite number to use. There were very few instances of actual infinite combos used. I think the last one I remember involved some sort of upkeep mana pool exploit. Later I think I remember them saying that all pooled mana had to be used before the upkeep ended or else you'd take mana burn. Maybe it was always supposed to be like that, just ignored.
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#43 Jul 05 2014 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, mana burn did used to be a rule. They got rid of it a good while ago, though -- what some saw as a rule that made you think a little harder about what you were doing, others felt just made the game less fun to worry about. I sort of miss it but not enough to actually care or think it ruined the game or anything.
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Belkira wrote:
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#44 Jul 05 2014 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, they got rid of mana burn? I didn't mind mana burn, thought it was a good idea.

I meant that between the upkeep and main phase, our group used to carry over mana. But then shortly after this one infinite combo that was preformed during the upkeep, it was changed that mana had to be at zero when leaving the upkeep phase or you took mana burn and the pool was reduced to zero. I am not sure if this was an actual rule change, or just a reinterpreting of the rules from our group. I never followed official rules that much, we were a very casual group. We had a couple older kids that were into the official thing, but we rarely played with them.
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#45 Jul 05 2014 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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The mana pool empties at each phase so you can't tap your lands for mana before untap and then use that mana to cast anything in your main phase. Similarly you can't tap lands for mana, attack someone and then use that mana. It's worked this way since the start of the game (or at least by the time they introduced the 60 card decks 4 max per card rules).

Oh and mana burn doesn't exist anymore, they got rid of it with the M10 rules revision.

Jophiel wrote:
My local card haunt restricts all "infinite" combos in legacy/commander to three occurrences. So no infinite turns, mana, health, etc. While everyone appreciates the nifty-keenness of pulling off such a combo, they just found it makes the games in general more fun that way.

Of course, those games aren't ranked or anything so they have the ability to do house rules like that.
That makes no sense, it doesn't even stop the draw scenarios I mentioned above anyway because with the way the cards work there is nothing anyone can actually do at all to stop them, that's why they result in a draw. It's also limited to precious few combinations of cards (the above examples being the only ones I can think of at the moment).

And infinite combos are allowed to be purely vocal in paper magic anyway so say you have a Worldgorger Dragon and Oona, Queen Of The Fae in your graveyard and cast an animate dead you can just say you go through the cycle X times so you can make X mana and exile everybody's library. It doesn't even take any more time than doing it three times. Or an easier example being Splinter Twin + Deceiver Exarch where the enchanted Exarch taps to copy itself, the copy untaps the original and repeat, you can just say you do that 66,318 times without having to grab a token and untap the original every time.

Problems arise only when you use a card like Ral Zarek for some "infinite" turns combo because the coin flipping means it can fail and you can't just say you do it X times.

Edited, Jul 5th 2014 5:07pm by Aethien
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#46 Jul 05 2014 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aethien wrote:
That makes no sense

*Shrug*
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Belkira wrote:
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#47 Jul 05 2014 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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The other option is to ban shifty legacy cards.
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#48 Jul 05 2014 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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That's why there is a banlist and the aforementioned Dragon is on it.
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#49 Jul 08 2014 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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So this is impressive as @#%^.

Burn vs Loam Pox is about 90%-10% in favour of Burn but a 13 year old getting to the top 4 of a pretty big tournament (and winning $600) where half the cards that see play are older than he is. That's @#%^ing crazy.

Edited, Jul 8th 2014 1:42pm by Aethien
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#50 Jul 12 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Played the midnight 2015 pre-release last night. Was more crowded than I expected judging from the usual FNM size and by the time we got there, all the green and black sets were claimed -- black especially being the promo card to get. I went White 'cause why not and my son went for Blue. Did alright for the night, finishing off at 5-2 using a white/red deck. Mainly white creatures and red damage support. Burning Anger was a waste of a slot, Sungrace Pegasus and Geist of the Moors did okay for themselves, Resolute Angel only came into my hand once and I was a mana short of casting her (this was one of the two games I lost, too!). Lightning Strike and Heat Ray were nice to use for some good ole fashioned creature killin'. Mass Calcify could have been useful given everyone playing black+green/blue except the one time it came up for me, I had already as good as won the round. I was actually surprised to see how long a lot of people were taking. My games were over very quickly but a lot of tie games due to time running out.

Game One - Vs. Black/Blue Deck
(1) Win quickly. He got mana screwed with pretty much nothing but lands the whole game.
(2) Lose quickly. I only drew mountains for lands and couldn't get any creatures out.
(3) Lose. Finally a real game though. He gets out a deathtouch rat and a Carrion Crow, I kill both with a Selfless Cathar and Inferno fist. I get out the Geist, he Encrusts it. Back and forth until he got his Indulgent Tormentor out, I hold for a little while but die before I got enough land for my Resolute Angel. C'est la vie.

Game Two - Vs. Black/Green
Win quickly both games. I think he was loaded with heavier creatures and just couldn't get stuff out in time. The few things he did get out got red-nuked or Oppressive Rays (that card's a ***** for this format).

Game Three - Vs. Blue/Black
Win quickly both games. Got lucky to have Raise the Alarm come up early both games plus Soulmenders, Swiftclaws and Cathar. Convoke for the Golem & Stoke the Flames and he just never had a chance to get any footing.

No Planeswalker pulls for me but I did pull the Chain Veil thingie in case I just wanted to kill myself Smiley: grin

Edited, Jul 12th 2014 11:28pm by Jophiel
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#51 Jul 14 2014 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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Solid performance. Based on the timing, is 2015 a slow format, or are people just not used to it yet?
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