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#1 Jul 02 2014 at 8:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Because M15 spoilers.


The comeback of Convoke makes Theros' Inspired mechanic a lot better. Or rather turns it from something unreliable into something much more reliable, especially now that convoke will be appearing in all colours.

Preeminent Captain, Raise The Alarm and Obelisk Of Urd combined with the ton of good white creatures that are soldiers already (Brimaz and such) Soldier tribal might be a thing, especially with heroic, launch the fleet and the new Ajani. Maybe White with a splash of blue for countermagic and things like Military Intelligence, Ordeal Of Thassa and the new white 2 drop 2/1 that gets +1/+1 if you control an island and has 3U: tap target creature.

The souls are pretty interesting as well, Soul of New Phyrexia giving any deck a possible 6/6 trampler with upsides for 6 and the Soul Of Theros can completely take over a game in no time if you have a couple of creatures.

The New Nissa and Garruk are pretty sweet as well, Nissa's +1 almost makes her cast only 1 mana and the new Garruk could be worthwhile in a green devotion/ramp deck that can afford to pay 7 mana easily and early.
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#2 Jul 02 2014 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Goblin Kaboomist seems perfect for amusing flavor text. Smiley: frown
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#3 Jul 02 2014 at 9:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gonna make an all-wall deck based around Wall of Mulch Smiley: thumbsup
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#4 Jul 02 2014 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't be surprised to see that in BUG control decks after the RtR block rotates out. Drop wall of mulch early, sacrifice it when it's no longer useful.
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#5 Jul 02 2014 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or, you know, I was making a casual joke Smiley: laugh
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#6 Jul 02 2014 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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Filthy casual.

I got a good chuckle from Raise the Alarm.
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#7 Jul 02 2014 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Or, you know, I was making a casual joke Smiley: laugh
It's a good control card for BUG lists though.
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#8 Jul 02 2014 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Filthy casual.

I don't need to waste time looking at spoiler lists if I have someone telling me which decks to buy Smiley: nod

Also, the 2015 version of Duel of the Planeswalkers is available for pre-order for 50% off if that's your bag. You get a free promo card!

Edited, Jul 2nd 2014 11:17am by Jophiel
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#9 Jul 02 2014 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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But how will you know what list to buy when people haven't figured out what the top deck is going to be?




And someone has already figured out a way to get infinite turns with The Chain Veil by combining it with Battlefield Thaumaturge and Ajani, Mentor Of Heroes. Ajani puts 3 counters on the mage, Veil lets him do so a second time and you get a free turn by removing 6 counters, rinse and repeat.
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#10 Jul 02 2014 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm still gonna be in the draft only scene for a bit.
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#11 Jul 02 2014 at 12:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
But how will you know what list to buy when people haven't figured out what the top deck is going to be?

That's why there's spoilers ahead of the official switch, duh.
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#12 Jul 02 2014 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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No more Brave the Elements Smiley: frown

Nothing really exciting me out of the cheap whites. Devouring Light, I guess. Return to the Ranks situationally.

Looking at an entire screen of cards makes my eyes glaze over so I don't have any real macro opinions.
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#13 Jul 02 2014 at 6:18 PM Rating: Good
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I saw Magic 2015 was up for pre order on Steam...

I think I have 2012 or 2013 from a previous sale. Never played them. I played a... Duel of the Plainswalkers I think, and it wasn't really that good. Not sure if the yearly MTG games are any good.
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#14 Jul 02 2014 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I played the 2014 edition and liked it for what it was. From what I've heard, the 2013 edition was pretty crap although I couldn't tell you why it has that reputation.

Also, all the PC editions these days are "Duel of the Planeswalkers". They have "DotP" edition cards in the sets that aren't part of the legal standard set for physical play. Gives them some more flexibility in making the digital version decks, I suppose.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2014 7:28pm by Jophiel
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#15 Jul 02 2014 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Oh... I haven't followed the Magic games on the PC. I just remember seeing a Demo pop up on Xbox Live when I first got my 360 called something like "Magic the Gathering: Duels of the Plainswalkers" and thinking it was kind of "meh".

So I don't know what year model it was.
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#16 Jul 02 2014 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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I think that was the first one, from what I've heard they've gotten significantly better each year. Surprising really when you know what a cluster@#%^ MtG: Online is.

Also Joph, by the time Brave rotates out so will Supreme Verdict and all boardwipes will likely be counterable so a move into blue for some permission could work. Kind of depends on what the landscape will look like with Khans.

On a sidenote, Oops-All-Spells is an awesome deck, especially this version because it can morph into Belcher post board.

Edit: The deck is even pretty cheap with only LED's costing ~$100 and Chrome Moxes around $20 you could probably build it for around $600-700. And here's a TappedOut link to the deck so you can goldfish with it, cause that's kind of what it does in real games anyway and messing around with a deck that often has a turn 1 kill is sweet.

Edited, Jul 3rd 2014 11:30am by Aethien
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#17 Jul 03 2014 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think you and I agree on what a "cheap" deck is...
as an aside the Magic ipad game really helped me learn how to play the game somewhat sort of competently

Edited, Jul 3rd 2014 12:39pm by Olorinus
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#18 Jul 03 2014 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't imagine giving enough of a **** about the game to spend $700 on a deck and consider it a bargain Smiley: laugh
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#19 Jul 03 2014 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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I can imagine it. That's really the only scenario it'd ever play out, and involves selling marriage to a devil with very luxuriant sideburns.
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#20 Jul 03 2014 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus the Ludicrous wrote:
I don't think you and I agree on what a "cheap" deck is...
as an aside the Magic ipad game really helped me learn how to play the game somewhat sort of competently
Try playing with the deck in the TappedOut link I posted, it's good fun. You can only play without an opponent but the deck really doesn't do anything involving an opponent anyway short of losing to Force Of Will and casting Cabal Therapy to pull those out of hands.

Jophiel wrote:
I can't imagine giving enough of a sh*t about the game to spend $700 on a deck and consider it a bargain Smiley: laugh
It's a legacy deck, anything under ~2.5k is a bargain.
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#21 Jul 03 2014 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
It's a legacy deck, anything under ~2.5k is a bargain.

Spending a lesser stupid amount of money relative to a greater stupid amount of money isn't actually a "bargain" Smiley: laugh
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#22 Jul 03 2014 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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It is if your goal is to play Legacy.


Plus you get to win by putting your entire deck in your graveyard and then drawing a card, possibly the stupidest win con in any deck and you get to do it on turn 1! You don't really get to play that kind of magic outside of Legacy and Vintage and both usually have a pricetag with 4 or more numbers.
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#23 Jul 03 2014 at 3:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
You don't really get to play that kind of magic outside of Legacy and Vintage

If I ever have a burning desire to play that combo, I'll do it with a Sharpie and a stack of Plains and save myself two or three grand. Return on investment and all that.
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#24 Jul 03 2014 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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If you do that you might as well click on he TappedOut link, achieves roughly the same.
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#25 Jul 04 2014 at 3:25 AM Rating: Good
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Full M15 spoiler released: WotC to shoot Theros block in the balls with the next core set, reprints Back To Nature 1G, Instant: Destroy all enchantments

Really lame to print that right after a full enchantment focused block especially since there's no dominant enchantment decks anyway, this just shuts down any opportunity for Mono black aggro, Naya Hexproof or G/B or Junk Constellation to become a tier one deck.

Also, the new Raise The Alarm art is pretty awesome.

Edited, Jul 4th 2014 11:34am by Aethien
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#26 Jul 04 2014 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Agreed, that seems really lame.

Have to laugh that 18 years ago WotC has pressured into removing a pentagram from the Unholy Strength artwork and now we get Blood Host Smiley: laugh
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#27 Jul 04 2014 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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With the addition of Tormod's Crypt, Phyrexian Revoker and Hushwing Gryff (a.k.a. Torpor Orb on a stick) and Reclamation Sage to standard and you can almost build a W/G hatebears deck in standard. Aegis Of The Gods, Spirit Of The Labyrinth, Voice Of Resurgence and Scavenging Ooze are all powerful hatebears in standard as well

Not that that is likely to happen as there's nothing ridiculously broken to hate on but it's sure going to give people answers to anything powerful and remotely unorthodox that may be happening.
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#28 Jul 04 2014 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Hushwing Gryff

WTF is that? A horse-stork? Smiley: laugh
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#29 Jul 04 2014 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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If you were a flying horse that swallowed one of these you wouldn't look healthy either. Smiley: lol
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#30 Jul 04 2014 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hippogriff means "horse-bird" with the griff part coming from gryphus, Latin for a bird of prey.

While I assume they really refer to raptors, I suppose storks are predatory in that they feed on fish, frogs, snakes, etc.



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#31 Jul 04 2014 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Usually Hippogryphs get the head and wings of a hawk or eagle, this one's a lot creepier.


They're still flying horses though, just horses with bird wings and beaks.
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#32 Jul 04 2014 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Seige Dragon would really ruin your wall deck.
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#33 Jul 04 2014 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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I thought I bought one of the older MTG games a while back when it was on sale. Turns out I didn't. I must have just been thinking about it at the time.
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#34 Jul 04 2014 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Full M15 spoiler released: WotC to shoot Theros block in the balls with the next core set, reprints Back To Nature 1G, Instant: Destroy all enchantments


Awww that's crummy. I enjoy playing enchantments, they def are not overpowered. That's just bogus. Why kick a strategy when it isn't even a strong one?
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#35 Jul 04 2014 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Probably/possibly because in Wizards internal testing team Constellation and Heroic were a lot more powerful than it is reality. They have some very skilled Magic players in R&D but they are less focused on competitive play than the pros so WotC are often off on what the strongest decks will be.

There's definitely the potential power in constellation but it's not happening now and it's never going to be a tier 1 deck now that it can so easily be beaten by any deck capable of splashing green.
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#36 Jul 04 2014 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Now the next set just needs a card to give all enchantments indestructible. It's the circle of life!
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#37 Jul 04 2014 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Now the next set just needs a card to give all enchantments indestructible. It's the circle of life!


I hated that artifact group. I played through most of high school, took a year off around college, and then someone I met in college offered to play. Whipped an artifact deck with indestructible artifacts, and some enchantment or artifact that made all the other ones indestructible. And some artifact that gained counters every turn and after X turns he won..

I didn't pay attention to it all, seemed very broken to me at the time and it was the only deck he ever used when we played. I had a lot of different decks I had put together to have fun, as did most of my high school friends. We'd try stupid ****, most of the time it wasn't even aimed to win, but just how annoying or stupid we could be, or who could find the next infinite combo before the others. This guy was clearly out to build just one winner and stick with it.

My 4 year old decks from high school didn't stand a chance.
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#38 Jul 04 2014 at 5:34 PM Rating: Good
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Pretty broken if you don't know what you're facing and/or have no way to fight it.

Platinum Angel is a fun card like that as well because it days you can't lose the game and opponents can't win the game. It only gives your opponent a hand full of turns to find a way to deal with a 4/4 flying artifact creature.
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#39 Jul 04 2014 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Ya, he had that Platinum Angel too. How would that work if it was out and players ran out of cards? Usually that's game over, but do they just continue playing unable to draw cards?
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#40 Jul 05 2014 at 2:43 AM Rating: Good
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The person without a platinum angel would lose, if both have a platinum angel and neither has a way to kill it the game is a draw.

Edit: not the only way to draw actually, if the game gets in an infinite loop it is also a draw. Say for example you have 3 oblivion rings and only lands in play, since the O rings must have a target they will form a neat little circle with #1 being targeted by #2 and #2 by #3 which returns #1 to play with only #3 as a legal target so it enchants that which returns #2 to play etc.

Since neither player can stop this the game cannot end and it is a draw.

And the most famous is Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead, when AD is cast targeting the dragon the dragon comes into play and removes all other permanents from the game, this includes AD and because that is gone the dragon dies and all permanents come back into play so the AD targets the dragon again etc.
Since your lands come into play untapped you can use this to gain infinite mana and then target a creature like Oona, Queen Of The Fae in your graveyard, however if the dragon is the only creature in the graveyard the combo cannot be stopped and the game is a draw.

Edit edit: the above combo is also why Worldgorger Dragon is banned in Legacy, it's a reasonably strong combo and it can cause a lot of unfair play when people piloting the deck win the first game as they can easily make the game a draw on turn 2 leading them to win matches by winning one game and intentionally drawing the other two.

Edited, Jul 5th 2014 12:06pm by Aethien
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#41 Jul 05 2014 at 8:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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My local card haunt restricts all "infinite" combos in legacy/commander to three occurrences. So no infinite turns, mana, health, etc. While everyone appreciates the nifty-keenness of pulling off such a combo, they just found it makes the games in general more fun that way.

Of course, those games aren't ranked or anything so they have the ability to do house rules like that.
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#42 Jul 05 2014 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
My local card haunt restricts all "infinite" combos in legacy/commander to three occurrences. So no infinite turns, mana, health, etc. While everyone appreciates the nifty-keenness of pulling off such a combo, they just found it makes the games in general more fun that way.

Of course, those games aren't ranked or anything so they have the ability to do house rules like that.


In high school, when I played, our group said that if you wanted to use an infinite combo, you had to preform the actions until your opponent understood the combo enough and was satisfied that it was truly infinite, and then select a number. This meant that usually anyone who really wanted to use it was forced to do each step a few dozen times before the other guy agreed and allowed him to choose some finite number to use. There were very few instances of actual infinite combos used. I think the last one I remember involved some sort of upkeep mana pool exploit. Later I think I remember them saying that all pooled mana had to be used before the upkeep ended or else you'd take mana burn. Maybe it was always supposed to be like that, just ignored.
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#43 Jul 05 2014 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, mana burn did used to be a rule. They got rid of it a good while ago, though -- what some saw as a rule that made you think a little harder about what you were doing, others felt just made the game less fun to worry about. I sort of miss it but not enough to actually care or think it ruined the game or anything.
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#44 Jul 05 2014 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, they got rid of mana burn? I didn't mind mana burn, thought it was a good idea.

I meant that between the upkeep and main phase, our group used to carry over mana. But then shortly after this one infinite combo that was preformed during the upkeep, it was changed that mana had to be at zero when leaving the upkeep phase or you took mana burn and the pool was reduced to zero. I am not sure if this was an actual rule change, or just a reinterpreting of the rules from our group. I never followed official rules that much, we were a very casual group. We had a couple older kids that were into the official thing, but we rarely played with them.
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#45 Jul 05 2014 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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The mana pool empties at each phase so you can't tap your lands for mana before untap and then use that mana to cast anything in your main phase. Similarly you can't tap lands for mana, attack someone and then use that mana. It's worked this way since the start of the game (or at least by the time they introduced the 60 card decks 4 max per card rules).

Oh and mana burn doesn't exist anymore, they got rid of it with the M10 rules revision.

Jophiel wrote:
My local card haunt restricts all "infinite" combos in legacy/commander to three occurrences. So no infinite turns, mana, health, etc. While everyone appreciates the nifty-keenness of pulling off such a combo, they just found it makes the games in general more fun that way.

Of course, those games aren't ranked or anything so they have the ability to do house rules like that.
That makes no sense, it doesn't even stop the draw scenarios I mentioned above anyway because with the way the cards work there is nothing anyone can actually do at all to stop them, that's why they result in a draw. It's also limited to precious few combinations of cards (the above examples being the only ones I can think of at the moment).

And infinite combos are allowed to be purely vocal in paper magic anyway so say you have a Worldgorger Dragon and Oona, Queen Of The Fae in your graveyard and cast an animate dead you can just say you go through the cycle X times so you can make X mana and exile everybody's library. It doesn't even take any more time than doing it three times. Or an easier example being Splinter Twin + Deceiver Exarch where the enchanted Exarch taps to copy itself, the copy untaps the original and repeat, you can just say you do that 66,318 times without having to grab a token and untap the original every time.

Problems arise only when you use a card like Ral Zarek for some "infinite" turns combo because the coin flipping means it can fail and you can't just say you do it X times.

Edited, Jul 5th 2014 5:07pm by Aethien
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#46 Jul 05 2014 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aethien wrote:
That makes no sense

*Shrug*
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#47 Jul 05 2014 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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The other option is to ban shifty legacy cards.
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#48 Jul 05 2014 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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That's why there is a banlist and the aforementioned Dragon is on it.
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Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#49 Jul 08 2014 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
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27,272 posts
So this is impressive as @#%^.

Burn vs Loam Pox is about 90%-10% in favour of Burn but a 13 year old getting to the top 4 of a pretty big tournament (and winning $600) where half the cards that see play are older than he is. That's @#%^ing crazy.

Edited, Jul 8th 2014 1:42pm by Aethien
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Theophany wrote:
YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#50 Jul 12 2014 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
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TILT
Played the midnight 2015 pre-release last night. Was more crowded than I expected judging from the usual FNM size and by the time we got there, all the green and black sets were claimed -- black especially being the promo card to get. I went White 'cause why not and my son went for Blue. Did alright for the night, finishing off at 5-2 using a white/red deck. Mainly white creatures and red damage support. Burning Anger was a waste of a slot, Sungrace Pegasus and Geist of the Moors did okay for themselves, Resolute Angel only came into my hand once and I was a mana short of casting her (this was one of the two games I lost, too!). Lightning Strike and Heat Ray were nice to use for some good ole fashioned creature killin'. Mass Calcify could have been useful given everyone playing black+green/blue except the one time it came up for me, I had already as good as won the round. I was actually surprised to see how long a lot of people were taking. My games were over very quickly but a lot of tie games due to time running out.

Game One - Vs. Black/Blue Deck
(1) Win quickly. He got mana screwed with pretty much nothing but lands the whole game.
(2) Lose quickly. I only drew mountains for lands and couldn't get any creatures out.
(3) Lose. Finally a real game though. He gets out a deathtouch rat and a Carrion Crow, I kill both with a Selfless Cathar and Inferno fist. I get out the Geist, he Encrusts it. Back and forth until he got his Indulgent Tormentor out, I hold for a little while but die before I got enough land for my Resolute Angel. C'est la vie.

Game Two - Vs. Black/Green
Win quickly both games. I think he was loaded with heavier creatures and just couldn't get stuff out in time. The few things he did get out got red-nuked or Oppressive Rays (that card's a ***** for this format).

Game Three - Vs. Blue/Black
Win quickly both games. Got lucky to have Raise the Alarm come up early both games plus Soulmenders, Swiftclaws and Cathar. Convoke for the Golem & Stoke the Flames and he just never had a chance to get any footing.

No Planeswalker pulls for me but I did pull the Chain Veil thingie in case I just wanted to kill myself Smiley: grin

Edited, Jul 12th 2014 11:28pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#51 Jul 14 2014 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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12,000 posts
Solid performance. Based on the timing, is 2015 a slow format, or are people just not used to it yet?
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