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Irony: Everquest Next (and sibling) AnnouncedFollow

#1 Aug 02 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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Linky

It's essentially the MMO, and a minecraft-like design game that goes along with the MMO where you can build and design stuff using the same tools the devs have (though it's going to develop separately from the main game).

They SAY they're going to give the monsters fleshed-out AIs that give them actual behaviors, which include migration. They'll hunt out new places to live according to their likes/dislikes, abandon old ones, etc. They're also planning nonstop world-changing events to keep the game from being static, and that the community choices during these events will drive the results.

It's definitely an insanely lofty goal. Hope it works out, I'm going to be politely incredulous until I see it in action.
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#2 Aug 02 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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You know what's going to kick ***? That Spore game.

Also the Horizons MMORPG.

Is Horizons even still running active servers?

Edit: It's a F2P game called Istaria now. Go figure.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:09pm by Jophiel
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#3 Aug 02 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I liked the part where the giant robot thing knocked over the building.

On paper it sounds like a lot of fun. In practice you find yourself worrying about balance issues, etc. With so many possibilities in a multi-player context you'd have to think it'd be hard to give a balanced playing field. Creating and destroying stuff sounds like good fun, and if they can make the world customization thingy work well, without leaving behind miles of empty housing of course, I'll have to give it a try. Sounds like a fun experiment to say the least. I'm intrigued.

That and I want a giant robot thing.
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#4 Aug 02 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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The other side of that is that balance is only required for fun if the devs say it is. LoL has mediocre balance across its heroes. No one cares, because most users are only using free options anyway. Once you get to the point where you're competitive, you care more about what's FOTM than what's your favorite personal style.

And when everyone has potential access to everything, there's little reason to care about balance as long as you don't force the basic game to be super competitive.

Which is really what I hope they do. Drown us in casual content, with avenues to competition for those that want it, so that people can just focus on having fun. That's sort of like what it seems Wildstar is going out of their way to do, going so far to create so many different playing modes and competition/play forms.
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#5 Aug 02 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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If there's one thing I've liked about the fragmenting of the MMO market it's that any particular MMO feels less competitive now. Hopefully that works in their favor if nothing else.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:10pm by someproteinguy
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#6 Aug 02 2013 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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Now if only devs would start creating diverse content, instead of all competing for the one subset of the population that's already grown tired of WoW anyway...
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#7 Aug 02 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's something to be said about that generic 'make a character go out in the world and kill a bunch of stuff and get something sparkly' MMO; it's the safe money if nothing else.
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#8 Aug 02 2013 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I just don't think people are as nearly tuned into the WoW model of doing it as developers think they are.

Look at how insanely popular the seemingly random new features of Pandaria are. People love the farm, they love pet battles.

I think a lot of MMO gamers are interested in a world where they can buy/build/decorate their shack or mansion, where they can play a Plants vs. Zombie-esque minigame to defend their castle, where they can vote in the mayoral election for their city, or maybe even join the Thieves guild/city guard to try and fix (or prevent the fixing of) said election.

If EQN can actually tune into that and do it well, it'll be a really nice breath of fresh air. But that will require a certain number of risks, and the video game industry LOATHES taking risks.
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#9 Aug 02 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Imagine the warrior in their demo spamming abilities till he's dug himself a hole all the way into the lava...
#10 Aug 02 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
STUFF!


Reminds me of the saying about apple pie; that it became popular because it was everyone's 2nd favorite kind of pie.

You find a lot of people looking for a lot of different things in a game, but some of the stereotypical RPG/MMO aspect is somewhere on a lot of people's list so it gets packaged with everything. The other stuff: detailed character creation, player housing, sandbox world, professions, side-games, fight mechanics, quality story lines, novel combat, competitive PvP, political system, etc. tend to be a favorite of a subset of the potential market. Not enough to make it the focus of all your attention, but certainly enough to consider including it along with 'the hack monsters to death for shiny things' aspect.

How to get one of those other aspects to appeal to the rest of the market would be the key. An awesome character creation screen won't necessarily sell to avid PvPers, and such. Finding a way to make it really good won't necessarily translate into more sales, but it could if done right perhaps? I suppose that's the gamble.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 2:51pm by someproteinguy
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#11 Aug 02 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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I like the way this article discusses the game systems.

I like the idea of the game world being the end and the means, rather than it being the means to reach endgame. I like the idea of the environment actually changing over time. Of a tent city growing into a village into a town into a city into warzone into a desolate ruin, ripe for treasure hunting and ghost slaying.

I like that process not being ordained by the developers, but rather the end result of a bunch of different causal influences.

It's what GW2 promised us, but not what they gave us. Hopefully, EQN does.

[EDIT]

I think the problem is that the core stuff is way lower on people's lists than appropriate for the market designs. I think there are a lot of people who aren't being lured in by that basic structure in the first place, so they don't even get tallied with everyone else.

I also think it's time the market stopped trying to create the one MMO to rule them all. The MMO market is pretty big now; it's fine to have different games that do different things. Having one well-polished game that doesn't go far enough in anything is ultimately going to leave most people bored.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 5:54pm by idiggory
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#12 Aug 02 2013 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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What kind of elf panties can I expect from this game?
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#13 Aug 02 2013 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I like the way this article discusses the game systems.
I'm hopeful, it certainly sounds like it'd be worth playing. It does address a major problem with MMOs in general. I do worry about making the world too dynamic though, some degree of permanence will be wanted by people, just to feel at home in the game. Places mean something over time (Orgrimmar, Goldshire, Icecrown Citadel, etc.), too much change and people could find they were connected to game world that simply doesn't exist anymore. Though I imagine they'll be testing out things like this as they go through Beta versions and whatnot.

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I also think it's time the market stopped trying to create the one MMO to rule them all.
I wholeheartedly agree, but thankfully I think we're moving this way. People are perhaps starting to see WoW as more of a game that was simply at the right place at the right time, and less of one that should be emulated if you want to be successful.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:15pm by someproteinguy
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#14 Aug 02 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
What kind of elf panties can I expect from this game?
Also, is their existence as dynamic as the rest of the world?
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#15 Aug 02 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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The whole changing thing sounds interesting, but sucks when implemented horribly.

I played the Beta for Wakfu (Dofus successor) Tactical turn based MMO. Depending on what players did in areas, the environments changed. Over hunting lead to extinction, over harvesting lead to extinction, you could herd animals in areas, grow plants as you wished, modify ecosystems as you wished to suit you (others could as well). It had a governing body that was voted on by the populace. Winners controlled the world for a week or so. Laying out rules, placing animal species on a protected list that penalized you for killing them, so the governing body could promote certain species in certain areas through laws. They could also levy taxes on cities and areas, all player transactions in those areas would be taxed, funds collected would go to the government so they could add laws (laws cost money). They could do this as a way to earn money, or as a way to promote (or penalize) massive player merchant in a single area.

It all sounded great, until you'd get a small group of people who were high enough level and had enough money to corrupt the system and ruin the game for a whole week for everyone.
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#16 Aug 02 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm hopeful, it certainly sounds like it'd be worth playing. It does address a major problem with MMOs in general. I do worry about making the world too dynamic though, some degree of permanence will be wanted by people, just to feel at home in the game. Places mean something over time (Orgrimmar, Goldshire, Icecrown Citadel, etc.), too much change and people could find they were connected to game world that simply doesn't exist anymore. Though I imagine they'll be testing out things like this as they go through Beta versions and whatnot.


I think that's fair. I also think it's fair to put some impetus on the players to make them permanent.

If you've made your home in Stormwind, and it's actually possible for Stormwind to fall, it makes it all the more important for you to bother defending Stormwind if it ends up under siege. And not in the "I guess this event is kinda okay" kind of way, but in the "Holy **** if we don't win this Stormwind will actually be GONE" kind of way.

I also supsect that the companion game is going to allow for the creation of assets that the developers can use to actually keep up with this kind of content. Say they issue a contest for the best "Ruins of Stormwind" and use the winner as the basic landscape they alter as they see fit for the actual EQN game, should Stormwind fall. Or, you know, something more reasonable like "Pick a building in Stormwind and show it post-Siege, should the city fall."

Seeing your work in the game, for however long it becomes an actual part of the environment, would be hugely gratifying for those kinds of designers, I'd imagine. Not to mention it could come with a unique character prize, some f2p currency, etc.

Basically, my point is that they're essentially in a position to crowdsource content in a way that actually enables the world to be as dynamic as they want for it to be, if they handle this properly. And my god do I want that.
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#17 Aug 02 2013 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm hopeful, I'm excited, I'm going to keep my eye on it, and I signed up for the beta.

Bring it on!
#18 Aug 02 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
If you've made your home in Stormwind, and it's actually possible for Stormwind to fall, it makes it all the more important for you to bother defending Stormwind if it ends up under siege. And not in the "I guess this event is kinda okay" kind of way, but in the "Holy **** if we don't win this Stormwind will actually be GONE" kind of way.


disgruntled player wrote:
I had to work overtime this weekend and couldn't defend my home city in-game. Now all my months of work is gone and I have to start over building elsewhere? *expletive* *expletive* *expletive* I quit.


Like you say some kind of balance will be the key, lots of potential for both success and failure if it's going to be a pivotal part of the game.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 7:30pm by someproteinguy
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#19 Aug 02 2013 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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I'd expect the event to be in proportion to its effect. Something like the siege of the city would be a very long event. And I wouldn't expect an army to just pop out of nowhere and attack it, so the siege itself shouldn't be a surprise. And if it's actually dynamic, then there should be chances to stop the army from ever even reaching the city.

You'd know your city was failing to defend itself long in advance, and have the ability to react and move your assets. You'd also have time to muster your strength, and work on calling in support from other allied cities.

And any city so unable to save itself is probably one it might be better off for the game to wipe out. You want players to be invested. Reminding them their home town isn't permanent, and giving them a crazy new ruin to explore in the process, sounds like a win-win.

Now, they do need something to keep people from losing their entire fortune all at once (if people are stupid enough not to diversify their assets). But honestly something as simple as transferring the contents of players' home stashes to their new home location the moment the city falls.
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#20 Aug 02 2013 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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It is too hard to tell but I could really just see people training massive giants around to destroy everything if they are given the chance. Really can't tell how the game is going to play from the video. Guess it will be a wait and see type of deal.
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#21 Aug 03 2013 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
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It's been so long since it was possible to kite world bosses long distances in any MMO, I'd be shocked if that was the case. It would be a massive oversight of pretty basic MMO design right now.

On the other hand, they might choose to create that sort of world. In which case I'd expect that sort of possibility, when taken in the grand scheme of things, to be part of what made a positive experience.
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#22 Aug 03 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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fronglo wrote:
It is too hard to tell but I could really just see people training massive giants around to destroy everything if they are given the chance.

Everquest Next: Oasis/Everfrost edition?
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#23 Aug 03 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
someproteinguy wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
What kind of elf panties can I expect from this game?
Also, is their existence as dynamic as the rest of the world?


Epic Purple ones and Orange Legendary ones(from the cash shop using company scrip). Also excellent question about the dynamism, the answer is yes, but not until next patch.
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#24 Aug 03 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Patched panties are pretty low rent.
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#25 Aug 03 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
fronglo wrote:
It is too hard to tell but I could really just see people training massive giants around to destroy everything if they are given the chance.

Everquest Next: Oasis/Everfrost edition?
EQN: Fansy's World.
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#26 Aug 05 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Everything I've seen about this so far makes it look absolutely amazing. The question is, can they really pull it off? A lot of things like this look great on paper but suck massively when actually implemented.
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#27 Aug 09 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did I miss something? Because we have a EQN forum now? Smiley: confused

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#28 Aug 21 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Kotaku has a terraforming video up, and it's practically ****.

If you're into that sort of thing.
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#29 Aug 22 2013 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
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the editor itself looks like a lot of fun
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#31 Jan 04 2014 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bumping this because the EQN forum is still dead: You can buy into EQ Landmark alpha and beta and it gets you in game goodies as well.
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#32 Jan 05 2014 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Surely this revolutionary MMORPG will be different than all those other revolutionary MMORPGS. Those games were ****.
#33 Jan 05 2014 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know how well they'll manage to execute it but the idea at least is interesting and I really like building stuff. I've decided to wait and see until Alpha launches before buying the beta pack thingy (if that's still possible then) if it's shaping up to be good.

I'm still kind of skeptic about the whole everything can be destroyed and AI will be sort of intelligent and move around the world thing but if they deliver on their promises it could be very good. And it doesn't hurt that I really like the style and look of the game.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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