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#552 Aug 02 2013 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, apparently you have to purchase it separately for the PC and PS3 this time around. You didn't have to for FFXI. I'll be doing the reverse as you are; I'll grab the PS3 edition on a sale or if I end up with some gift cards.
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#553 Aug 02 2013 at 10:46 AM Rating: Good
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Laptop scored a 2331 on Standard (Laptop) preset. Average FPS of 19. Not that I'd really play on my laptop much. Maybe some questing or crafting on a slow day at work. Smiley: lol
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#554 Aug 02 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
Yeah, apparently you have to purchase it separately for the PC and PS3 this time around. You didn't have to for FFXI. I'll be doing the reverse as you are; I'll grab the PS3 edition on a sale or if I end up with some gift cards.


You had to purchase each platform separately for FFXI. If you owned the PC version, and wanted to play on your PS2 or Xbox, you had to purchase a copy for the PS2 or Xbox. And if you had the PS2/Xbox version, you still actually had to purchase a PC copy, even though you could just go out acquire the PC files through various means and play the game that way. While technically illegal, I think it was ignored because the software was no good without an actual POL account. (Unless they changed something at the end there after I quit playing, and gave you the downloads for free with the Trial versions or something.)

I'd imagine you can do FFXIV the same way... The PC version "acquired" and as long as you have an account you can play.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 12:55pm by TirithRR
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#555 Aug 02 2013 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Here's a big list of datamined changes. Grain of salt and all that, but I don't see anything that would set off an alarm.

A bunch of abilties got buffed, a few got nerfed. Dragoon sub-class is now pug, not archer. Monk sub class is now Marauder, not Gladiator.

They have spell lists for Arcanist and summons, too. Looking good to me.
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#556 Aug 02 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
Yeah, apparently you have to purchase it separately for the PC and PS3 this time around. You didn't have to for FFXI. I'll be doing the reverse as you are; I'll grab the PS3 edition on a sale or if I end up with some gift cards.


You had to purchase each platform separately for FFXI. If you owned the PC version, and wanted to play on your PS2 or Xbox, you had to purchase a copy for the PS2 or Xbox. And if you had the PS2/Xbox version, you still actually had to purchase a PC copy, even though you could just go out acquire the PC files through various means and play the game that way. While technically illegal, I think it was ignored because the software was no good without an actual POL account. (Unless they changed something at the end there after I quit playing, and gave you the downloads for free with the Trial versions or something.)

I'd imagine you can do FFXIV the same way... The PC version "acquired" and as long as you have an account you can play.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 12:55pm by TirithRR


I don't think so. Because the PS3 requires a service activation, they already have to treat it differently from the PC version - max of 8 registered PS3s. So there's no reason they need to activate PC service at the same time, if a PS3 user's account is going to be set up to only be accessed from a single device by default.
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#557 Aug 02 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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At least for the BETA all I had to do was link my PSN account to my SE Account, and I could play on both PC and PS3, there was no actual limitation on my account telling it which version I had access to. They could very well put that limit in for the actual release, but it seems a little strange to me.
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#558 Aug 02 2013 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
At least for the BETA all I had to do was link my PSN account to my SE Account, and I could play on both PC and PS3, there was no actual limitation on my account telling it which version I had access to. They could very well put that limit in for the actual release, but it seems a little strange to me.


All I can tell you is that the website specifies that you'll need to purchase each version to log into the game from both.
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#559 Aug 02 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
At least for the BETA all I had to do was link my PSN account to my SE Account, and I could play on both PC and PS3, there was no actual limitation on my account telling it which version I had access to. They could very well put that limit in for the actual release, but it seems a little strange to me.


All I can tell you is that the website specifies that you'll need to purchase each version to log into the game from both.


And you technically had to for FFXI as well.
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#560 Aug 02 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
Yeah, apparently you have to purchase it separately for the PC and PS3 this time around. You didn't have to for FFXI. I'll be doing the reverse as you are; I'll grab the PS3 edition on a sale or if I end up with some gift cards.


You had to purchase each platform separately for FFXI. If you owned the PC version, and wanted to play on your PS2 or Xbox, you had to purchase a copy for the PS2 or Xbox. And if you had the PS2/Xbox version, you still actually had to purchase a PC copy, even though you could just go out acquire the PC files through various means and play the game that way. While technically illegal, I think it was ignored because the software was no good without an actual POL account. (Unless they changed something at the end there after I quit playing, and gave you the downloads for free with the Trial versions or something.)

I'd imagine you can do FFXIV the same way... The PC version "acquired" and as long as you have an account you can play.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 12:55pm by TirithRR
I wasn't clear. You didn't have to purchase separate licenses with FFXI. I bought it for PC, and then later got a PS2 copy used. All you needed was the actual software. Your one license allowed you to play on multiple platforms (I assume it worked the same on 360 but maybe not). With FFXIV, you'll actually need a PS3 registration code to play on PS3, even with an account on PC. Similarly, you won't be able to buy the PS3 version and then just download the PC client while only paying for one registration.
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#561 Aug 02 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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That's... not what technically means. Technically, you could play FFXI on the PC if you had purchased the PS2 version, provided you borrowed someone else's discs to install the launcher/game files.

There's no good reason to assume FFXIV would be the same. It's not using PlayOnline, and the PS3 offers far more sophisticated DRM options for them to control access to the game.
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#562 Aug 02 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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Which page are you getting the info about this from?

I found these:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=67225&ret=main
http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?id=5382&la=1&kid=67223&ret=main

Neither of which say much about playing the same characters from a single SE account on two different platforms at two separate times.
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#563 Aug 02 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
That's... not what technically means. Technically, you could play FFXI on the PC if you had purchased the PS2 version, provided you borrowed someone else's discs to install the launcher/game files.


I meant in a sense that I'd have to acquire a copy legitimately (pay), otherwise pirate them.
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#564 Aug 02 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/58180-Letter-from-the-Producer-LIVE-Part-IV-Q-A-Summary

Interview with Yoshi-P:
Quote:
[1:34:47] Q: If you want to play the PC version on a PS3, will you still have to purchase the registration code for the PS3 version?

A: In that case, I’m very sorry but you will have to purchase a registration code for the PS3 version. However, you will be able to play on the PS3 with the same character you created on the PC.
I guess he doesn't explicitly state that the reverse would be true. Perhaps you could buy the PS3 version, and then acquire the PC game client and play both off one registration, but I'm doubtful.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:34pm by Spoonless
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#565 Aug 02 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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Ya, I saw that one Q/A after posting that, but that one makes sense, because the PS3 version is different, pirating software on the PS3 is difficult, and even when possible I think it severely limits (or removes) the online capabilities of the PS3.

I'm still standing on my original assumptions of how it works with FFXI, given what I've seen with the registration process for the PS3 and PC versions of the Beta and my SE Account.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:38pm by TirithRR
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#566 Aug 02 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Good
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Go to important notices.
Quote:
Logging into the Same Account on both Windows and PlayStation 3
It is possible to play with the same account on both Windows and PlayStation 3 platforms. Customers who own a copy of FFXIV for Windows and wish to use their account on the PlayStation 3 version will need to purchase a copy of the PlayStation 3 version. It will then be possible to use your characters on either platform by tying your existing service account to the PlayStation 3 version upon launching it for the first time. Similarly, customers who own a copy of FFXIV for PlayStation 3 and wish to use their account on the Windows version will need to purchase a copy of the Windows version. However, please note that your account will only be able to log into one platform at a time.

FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn for the PlayStation 3
Multiple copies of FFXIV: A Realm Reborn for PlayStation 3 may be registered to a Sony Entertainment Network account. Please note that only one Sony Entertainment Network account can be linked to a Square Enix account, which allows up to eight service accounts.


Granted, they don't specify that you need to register the PC account in the same way they specify registration of the PS3 system on your service account, but I see no reason to assume they wouldn't.
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#567 Aug 02 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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I take that as their way of saying legally obtain the software for both the PC and PS3 versions of the game. They won't be giving you either copy for free just because you purchased the other.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:41pm by TirithRR
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#568 Aug 02 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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You do realize that's a baseless assumption, right? And that it effectively renders false the assumption of what "similarly" means?

And that, in the age of digital distribution, it would be insane for them not to implement pc-based DRM?

[EDIT]

Because obviously gaming companies are all about just wagging their fingers as an effective form of DRM.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:44pm by idiggory
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#569 Aug 02 2013 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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Baseless? I'm basing it on what I've seen on the SE Account registration so far dealing with FFXIV.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:49pm by TirithRR
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#570 Aug 02 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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Now I'm thinking I should buy the PS3 version, and see if I can play on PC with the one registration code. Smiley: lol
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#571 Aug 02 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
Baseless? I'm basing it on what I've seen on the SE Account registration so far dealing with FFXIV.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 1:49pm by TirithRR


Yes, I'd call that baseless. Or at the very least a severe misuse of logic.

You're taking a system designed to offer you the most extensive access possible, in an environment where everything is free, and then using it to judge (piecemeal, nonetheless) that the state of affairs will match it when it comes time to start paying for access.

Assuming that those two will be similar with regards to fees, something that was not included in the beta at all, is an absurd and baseless assumption.
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#572 Aug 02 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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In what you posted, no where does it say you have to register both the PC and the PS3 codes on your account, just that you have to purchase the software. And you say that the current DRM on the PC is different than it was in FFXI years so why wouldn't they limit it?

All they have to do to limit it, is require PS3 and PC registration codes to be unique and only allow an account access to one service or the other. Both needed for access to both. But they could have done this in FFXI as well. PS2/PC/Xbox codes could have been services enabled on your account to limit access to each platform based on whether you had purchased it or not. But they didn't do this. Not because they didn't, but because they chose not to. Or maybe didn't think of it.

Given what we have experienced from SE services with FFXI, and what we have have seen with PS3 and PC Beta registrations currently with FFXIV, and the fact that everything officially posted does not oppose these past experiences unless you add your own thoughts or ideas, I don't see how it is a baseless assumption or a severe misuse of logic.
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#573 Aug 02 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
In what you posted, no where does it say you have to register both the PC and the PS3 codes on your account, just that you have to purchase the software. And you say that the current DRM on the PC is different than it was in FFXI years so why wouldn't they limit it?

All they have to do to limit it, is require PS3 and PC registration codes to be unique and only allow an account access to one service or the other. Both needed for access to both. But they could have done this in FFXI as well. PS2/PC/Xbox codes could have been services enabled on your account to limit access to each platform based on whether you had purchased it or not. But they didn't do this. Not because they didn't, but because they chose not to. Or maybe didn't think of it.

Given what we have experienced from SE services with FFXI, and what we have have seen with PS3 and PC Beta registrations currently with FFXIV, and the fact that everything officially posted does not oppose these past experiences unless you add your own thoughts or ideas, I don't see how it is a baseless assumption or a severe misuse of logic.


Are you really going to pretend like the service exchange for the PS3 isn't significantly different from the PS2?

With the PS2, Sony wasn't really involved in any of the online processing. You hooked your PS2 up to the internet and that was that. You are making a huge assumption that they could have limited access to the devices, short of going out of their way to specifically register individual MAC addresses across the board. And at the time FFXI was released, DRM was in a very different place than it is today.

Implementing this DRM would be so incredibly simple now. You're logging in from a PSN account tied to a specific Sony account. Check the truth values against whether or not your PSN privileges are active, allow or deny access. You're logging in from a non-PSN account, check the truth values against whether or not you have standard privileges, allow or deny access.

[EDIT]

For the record, your failing to account for the fact that every single beta code gave access to the PS3 version and PC version simultaneously. So, knowing that this will not be the case with the actual access codes, it's a fundamentally flawed inference to assume that this WILL be the case with the PS3 codes and will NOT be the case with the PC codes. It's just not logically valid.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 2:58pm by idiggory
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#574 Aug 02 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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I'm suggesting that when dealing with an MMO where a server authenticates accounts, that the DRM is not important. Just because the DRM has changed from 10 years ago should make little difference in how SE handles everything. It doesn't matter how much you pirate all this software, if you don't have a registration code you cannot use the game. They could have easily done this with FFXI, but did not.

I'm not saying that what I'm suggesting is 100% true, I could be wrong, just that it not baseless and is a logical conclusion given all the information we have at hand.

Since you are already getting the PS3 version to start with, what do you have to lose to try and find a PC copy and install it, log in with your account?

Quote:
For the record, your failing to account for the fact that every single beta code gave access to the PS3 version and PC version simultaneously.


Yes, because all the codes do is enable the FFXIV service for your SE Account. I'm not failing to account for that fact, I'm basing my statements on that fact, and the fact that it's exactly how it worked for the FFXI system as well.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:02pm by TirithRR
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#575 Aug 02 2013 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
I'm suggesting that when dealing with an MMO where a server authenticates accounts, that the DRM is not important. Just because the DRM has changed from 10 years ago should make little difference in how SE handles everything. It doesn't matter how much you pirate all this software, if you don't have a registration code you cannot use the game. They could have easily done this with FFXI, but did not.

I'm not saying that what I'm suggesting is 100% true, I could be wrong, just that it not baseless and is a logical conclusion given all the information we have at hand.

Since you are already getting the PS3 version to start with, what do you have to lose to try and find a PC copy and install it, log in with your account?

Quote:
For the record, your failing to account for the fact that every single beta code gave access to the PS3 version and PC version simultaneously.


Yes, because all the codes do is enable the FFXIV service for your SE Account. I'm not failing to account for that fact, I'm basing my statements on that fact, and the fact that it's exactly how it worked for the FFXI system as well.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:02pm by TirithRR


Except we know for a fact that the system is not just checking if you have a service account with an active sub, it's checking what system you are logging in from, and then (in the case of the PS3), if that Sony account is registered to your FFXIV account. You can't just add PS3 access and log in from any PS3.

But you still access the same service. Someone who registered with a PC code CANNOT access the service from a PS3 without registering PS3 access. They clearly, then, do not just check against your account.

Furthermore, you can't access the game from just any PS3. You have to access it from a device associated with a Sony account that's connected to your FFXIV account. This tells us that the system is, in at least some cases, checking against additional criteria beyond the status of the individual account. And that criteria IS DRM-specific.

This tells us that the way the FFXIV service account works is not the same as the way a FFXI service account works, in general. An inference from similarity here will be logically invalid.

Is it possible they, through the goodness of their hearts, decided to give PS3 users access to the PC version even though they're requiring PC players to buy access to the PS3 version? Yes, it's possible.

It would also be shocking.
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#576 Aug 02 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Except we know for a fact that the system is not just checking if you have a service account with an active sub, it's checking what system you are logging in from, and then (in the case of the PS3), if that Sony account is registered to your FFXIV account. You can't just add PS3 access and log in from any PS3.


(Emphasis mine) You should be able to as long as you are logged into that PS3 with your linked PSN account. They don't link your PS3 to your SE Account, they link your PSN account to your SE Account. I've already done that. It gave me a couple warnings about the linking, saying I couldn't link the same PSN account to multiple SE Accounts (or something along those lines). Never asked me to link my specific PS3 to my SE Account.

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
But you still access the same service. Someone who registered with a PC code CANNOT access the service from a PS3 without registering PS3 access. They clearly, then, do not just check against your account.


(Again, Emphasis mine) I don't think you have to register PS3 access, you just have to link your PSN and you SE Account. Noted above.

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Furthermore, you can't access the game from just any PS3. You have to access it from a device associated with a Sony account that's connected to your FFXIV account. This tells us that the system is, in at least some cases, checking against additional criteria beyond the status of the individual account. And that criteria IS DRM-specific.


Same as above, I think this whole "device registering" is just the PSN Account linking.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:24pm by TirithRR
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