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#152 May 24 2013 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I can't agree, because I literally never once saw the installation requirement even mentioned as a con, precisely because it always meant faster load times.


PS3 Forced Installs
DMC4 Has Forced Installs?
GTA 4 PS3 vs 360
20-min PS3 installations to become the norm?

Yes, these are all opinion pieces, but that's what we are talking about, people listing cons between the consoles. As you can see early on the forced installation of games on the PS3 was viewed as a con by many people.

Just showing the console mentality here at the beginning of the generation. Installation was a forced hand that ended up being a useful and acceptable idea, and yes, new generations of both Sony and Microsoft should and will have it. But the reasons the 360 didn't come with it originally were because of the differences in console and PC gamers, practices, culture, etc.
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#153 May 24 2013 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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I don't mind installs when they reduce lag or load screens and such. I installed Silent Hill: Downpour and it still had areas that were ridiculously laggy and load screens took a good while to get through.
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#154 May 24 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't endorse anything DMC4-related for a conversation about forced installation, because DMC4 was a literally atrocious experience there, and would have been even if the installation was optional. 5gb, 21 minutes, and all only to match the 360's load times is utterly unacceptable.

And it's not the norm. It was *********

Optional installation was loved for the PS3 - it was a huge selling feature. And with very good reason.

That said, it's completely possible I've just forgotten public sentiment at the time, or that I've recalled the optional installation praise as being for forced installation as well. All very possible.

What I'm also willing to note is that I find the lack of a combination of forced/optional installations on the PS3 problematic. Why is it your only options are 14 gb or 0? Why aren't games launching with smaller required installations, and an additional installation if you want it? I just find that weird.
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#155 May 25 2013 at 5:10 AM Rating: Good
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Screenshot


Smiley: lolSmiley: lolSmiley: lol

Saw it on tumblr, had to share.
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#156 May 25 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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This controller looks a tad wider, I really hope it is. Can't help but think the ps3 was built for tiny asian hands.
#157 May 25 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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That notion was odd to me, but honestly I've spent so much time with the thing that I can't really even evaluate it anymore. But I've never liked how thick the xbox controller was. The two are probably correlated.
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#158 May 25 2013 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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The 360 controller is a more comfortable grip than the PS3's dualshock. With the 360's handles, the shape of them is more natural to the shape of your fingers as they lightly grip around them. And from what images I've seen of the PS4 controller, the handles of it have mimicked the 360's handles, getting rid of the straight tapered design for a more humped design. But I can't judge dimensions of the controller based on the images so I can't tell if they have lengthened the handles or now. The PS3 controller's short straight handles would lead to cramps in the ring and pinky fingers as the handle isn't there to support it properly when holding the controller.

This is all measured by centering the thumb on the right button pad and the left analog/dpad (xbox/ps3) and having the thumb near full extension with the side of the controller against the palm of the hand. The 360 controller extends down to my pinky finger. The PS3 controller stops about half way through my ring finger. As I grip my pink finger rolls up completely on the PS3, and the controller ends up resting ontop of the side of the finger, while on the 360 it's wrapped around the handle. The outside of the 360 controller handle is rounded to fit the palm, the PS3 controller is straight, forcing your palm to fit it.
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#159 May 27 2013 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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Xbox One to Offer TV Achievements?

Idea seems to be that they can use achievements to direct users to sponsored programming.
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#160 May 27 2013 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
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Only the natural progression of things. Other programs exist to offer rewards points for watching TV, I see one advertised on TV all the time now. Obviously just a guise to collect user data, but if they are going to do it anyway, might as well give you rewards points.
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#161 May 27 2013 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Xbox One to Offer TV Achievements?

Idea seems to be that they can use achievements to direct users to sponsored programming.


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#162 May 27 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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#163 May 27 2013 at 8:00 AM Rating: Good
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#164 May 27 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Idea seems to be that they can use achievements to direct users to sponsored programming.

Screenshot
#165 May 27 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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I dont know if any of you played it but MGS4 install time was terrible, and the install screen was old snake smoking a cig the entire time. Long install times long load times and there were multiple installation points during the game.

Honestly I dont think consoles should have installs at all unless they are fitted with Sata 3 SSDs becuase no one wants to get a game run hoime and stare at a loading screen for 10 + mins. PC users are used tio it and its part of the platform, but with stuff like Steam a full 10 gig game ussually takes about 30 mins to DL + install. Installing from a disk is slow and tedious, I mean with stuff like google fiber in the works and even basic net connection from Comcast being 30 Megs minimum, DLing the full game from PC/Console will probably beat out disk based at this rate.
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#166 May 27 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
I dont know if any of you played it but MGS4 install time was terrible, and the install screen was old snake smoking a cig the entire time. Long install times long load times and there were multiple installation points during the game.


It was poorly designed, but only because the game was originally released when there were only the 20/40/60 GB drives available. Since there was limited space they couldn't give you the option to install the whole game at once, and had to resort to overwriting each previous install with the next chapter of the game. They've learned from this with MGR: Revengeance, and hopefully with MGS 5. Plus Namco holds the patent for loading screen minigames, so Konami wasn't able to take your mind off the wait time any other way.
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#167 May 27 2013 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
Honestly I dont think consoles should have installs at all unless they are fitted with Sata 3 SSDs becuase no one wants to get a game run hoime and stare at a loading screen for 10 + mins. PC users are used tio it and its part of the platform, but with stuff like Steam a full 10 gig game ussually takes about 30 mins to DL + install. Installing from a disk is slow and tedious, I mean with stuff like google fiber in the works and even basic net connection from Comcast being 30 Megs minimum, DLing the full game from PC/Console will probably beat out disk based at this rate.


I guess you missed the whole "Not everyone has (good) internet/connections and/or download limits" part of the anti-24/7 argument?
#168 May 27 2013 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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No I wasnt arguing the point of anot everyone has good internet connections. I was stating that PC need to be installed to be played its part of the nature of the platform, consoles are being forced into installing instead of being purely cartridge/disk based.

If i buy a PC game I know I have to install it, If i buy a console game only about 2-3 years ago I figured there was no install, because games back then were purely disk based maybe a bit of HDD writing.

Also I hope tyhe next gen is fast enough to start playing a game while coping any essentials to the HDD without a load screen.


Anyway funny story, moved to Seattle and theres some Microsoft Buildings across the way, didnt think anything of it. Was google mapping my streets so i knew where to get off from a bus ride. Those MS building are actually Gas Powered Games studios.

Edited, May 27th 2013 9:33pm by BeanX
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#169 May 27 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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I mean honestly if you think about it a 8 gig Flash drive is about 5 bucks on sale, so cost is probably under a dollar. Why cant we just have USB sticks instead of CDs. Most games dont go over 32gigs (Some barely break 10) So why not install your game on USB and sell it like that? No Install, plug and play.

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#170 May 27 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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CD/DVDs are cheaper to make at this point, and the packaging is harder to steal then say a USB drive in a reasonably sized retail package.
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#171 May 28 2013 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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You also rub up against issues with data transfer rates, I'd imagine. They'd need to use thunderbolt or USB 3.0 technology for that to actually be effective, I'd imagine. And that's expensive.
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#172 May 28 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Apparently there is a 10 dollar off code floating around that you can apply to $14.99 purchases of 1200 MS Points, giving you 1200 points for 5 dollars. Unlimited amount of times. So you can get a 66% off deal on the Xbox Live store.

Edit:
Obviously it's swamped and abused, etc. I think it still works, but you'll likely run into trouble finding valid codes and will have to wait for the codes.

Edit2:
Still worked, got 2400 points for 10 bucks. Apparently the code is from signing up for Xone notification emails...

Edit3:
Seems that the deal is over. Reports of all codes coming back as invalid.

Edited, May 28th 2013 3:22pm by TirithRR
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#173 Jun 13 2013 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Hey Microsoft:

1.) I don't like TV and Sports.That's why I play video games.

2.) Did you not learn that a constant online requirement will kill your sales? Call up Blizzard and ask them how Diablo III is doing.

3.) Kinect is horrible.

You lose. Do not pass GO. Do not collect my $499.00.
#174 Jun 13 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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2.) Did you not learn that a constant online requirement will kill your sales? Call up Blizzard and ask them how Diablo III is doing.


Blizzard would tell them that Diablo III is the #3 best selling PC game of all time.
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#175 Jun 13 2013 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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Lol i was just about to say
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Diablo 3 has been out for just a little over a year, and Blizzard has burned the cooldown on its Infernal Horadric Ring of Visualizing Statistics to bring us the infographic below. Among the notable figures: Players have spent over 930 years of play time in D3 collectively, the average number of daily players is over two million, and about 67 million characters have been created in total.
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#176 Jun 13 2013 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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The big problem there is that we don't know what the potential population of players was. For all we know, the game could have sold double the copies without always-on DRM.


I was laying in bed, unable to sleep last night, and I my mind strayed back to the XBone. And I'm just really, really confused. It's like Microsoft has forgotten the foundation of marketing: tell your consumer why they want it and what it can do for them, not what it does.

Yeah, I can control my TV with my voice. Yeah, there's a camera that gives me the use of gestures or skype. Yeah, I can get achievements for watching TV. The problem is that I don't see why I would want any of those things.

And take other issues. The game has to check in every day? Okay, well tell me what that's doing for me, so I don't automatically interpret it as you being greedy ********. No used game trades? Well, show me the system you're replacing it with, and sell me that system.

Microsoft just told us what it did, without even trying to sell us the idea of why those things would be awesome. That's AWFUL marketing.

I have a feeling they've just had a lot of momentum driving forward with these ideas, almost certainly moving with 100% push from the top (rather than from the market research division). Maybe this is something that you can't live without once you get used to it.

The problem is that getting used to it requires people to buy the system in the first place.
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#177 Jun 13 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Gnu wrote:
2.) Did you not learn that a constant online requirement will kill your sales? Call up Blizzard and ask them how Diablo III is doing.


Blizzard would tell them that Diablo III is the #3 best selling PC game of all time.


Oh, snap.

So it's just gonna be like that. *sigh*
#178 Jun 13 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I was laying in bed, unable to sleep last night, and I my mind strayed back to the XBone.
I hate when that happens.
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#179 Jun 13 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Usually it's my hand straying to the ole Xbone when I can't sleep.
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#180 Jun 13 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Gnu wrote:
2.) Did you not learn that a constant online requirement will kill your sales? Call up Blizzard and ask them how Diablo III is doing.


Blizzard would tell them that Diablo III is the #3 best selling PC game of all time.


And the #1 disappointment of all time.

Not that I necessarily want to play, but isnt it pretty BS that I cant play a game single player I spent 60 dollars on without sending blizzard a copy of my drivers license to get my account unlocked?

I had an authenticator on my old phone. quit D3 and forgot about it, then got a new phone. To get authenticator to work I needed some number that I was supposed to write down when I first got the authenticator on the old phone. Yeah it's my fault for being dumb, but it is a lot of BS to go through just to play the game I bought. The account is secure though! lol


Edited, Jun 13th 2013 8:43am by KTurner
#181 Jun 13 2013 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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KTurner wrote:
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Gnu wrote:
2.) Did you not learn that a constant online requirement will kill your sales? Call up Blizzard and ask them how Diablo III is doing.
Blizzard would tell them that Diablo III is the #3 best selling PC game of all time.
And the #1 disappointment of all time.
I know they start with the same letters, but I'm relatively certain that didn't spell Duke Nukem.
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#182 Jun 13 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is this thread about Star Wars yet?
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#183 Jun 13 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The big problem there is that we don't know what the potential population of players was. For all we know, the game could have sold double the copies without always-on DRM.
You can say that about anything, though.
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#184 Jun 13 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
KTurner wrote:
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Gnu wrote:
2.) Did you not learn that a constant online requirement will kill your sales? Call up Blizzard and ask them how Diablo III is doing.
Blizzard would tell them that Diablo III is the #3 best selling PC game of all time.
And the #1 disappointment of all time.
I know they start with the same letters, but I'm relatively certain that didn't spell Duke Nukem.

I don't know, I thought Duke Nukem was pretty alright. It's a **** sight more appealing than Diablo III, that's for sure.
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#185 Jun 13 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
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Gnu wrote:


Oh, snap.

So it's just gonna be like that. *sigh*


Welp, not necessarily. The PS3 version will not be "always on" - I think that a big part of the difference is a PC is almost always "online" whereas consoles are often offline devices. It seems like it creates more pushback for a console dev to have an always online requirement than a PC dev.
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#186 Jun 13 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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Also did we miss the post where on average 2 million people play Diablo 3 every day. Thats a small country. While the game failed in some peoples eye, the rest of us actually enjoyed it. I got my moneys worth, 3 inferno, act 2 characters (pre paragon/easymode patch) A Barbarian, Wizard(Mage w/e), and a Monk.

The game is by NO means a failure, some games are considered huge successes if they SELL 2 million let alone get that many concurrent players over a year after release.
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#187 Jun 13 2013 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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I'll be curious to see just how many people buy it on PS3. Too bad we can't measure how many of those people would have been willing to buy it offline for the PC.

And yeah, it was a successful game. But the point was never about its success. Its success was brought up in relation to always-on DRM, so what needs to be considered is its success relative to that aspect.

So if it could have sold double the games without the DRM, I'd say that was a big loss. If it stood to sell 3% more, then it's not a big deal.
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#188 Jun 13 2013 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'l be buying it on PS3. I have friends who primarily console game, and I am looking forward to some mindless action co-op with them.

Plus, the PS3 version is looking to be better than the PC version anyway. I guess it's coming for 360 too, but PS3 gets more exclusives and my friends all have PS3 while only some of the group have 360s.
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#189 Jun 13 2013 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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For the record, I expect D3 to sell extremely well on the PS3. It's essentially what the game always should have been. Loot optimized for your class, no RMT AH, no always-on DRM?

It literally does away with everything that was highly criticized about the PC version.

Well, everything but the story. But to be fair, I doubt the story was its major selling point for most gamers.
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#190 Jun 13 2013 at 5:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
For the record, I expect D3 to sell extremely well on the PS3. It's essentially what the game always should have been. Loot optimized for your class, no RMT AH, no always-on DRM?

It literally does away with everything that was highly criticized about the PC version.

Well, everything but the story. But to be fair, I doubt the story was its major selling point for most gamers.


I think a lot of people are holding their breaths to see if Blizzard can still program for a console. Its been a while since their last console game and a bad port would suck for them.
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#191 Jun 14 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know why but I loved LOVED the original Diablo on PS1 a lot more then I did on my PC. Prolly had more to do with playing on a big screen in a recliner heh.
#192 Jun 14 2013 at 2:11 AM Rating: Good
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**** controller support alone would get me on board with console D3. I am an olde lady with crippled hands. Give a gamepad option kthxbye.
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#193 Jun 14 2013 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Wait, they released D1 on the PS1? I never knew that.
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#194 Jun 14 2013 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Apparently the forums are clamoring with Microsoft fanboys starting to justify why drm is okay. Ive never seen such a dedicated "crap all over me" group of bottom feeders.
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#195 Jun 14 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't mind DRM if it came with massive discounts on games, like Steam does. Of course, Steam does also offer an offline mode.
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#196 Jun 14 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't mind DRM if it wasn't executed so **** poorly.
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#197 Jun 14 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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That too.
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#198 Jun 14 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Posted just for sake of conversation:
PlayStationLifestyle wrote:
The announcement that the PS4 would allow used games (at least to the extent the PS3 does) brought roars from the audience, and ‘won’ the conference online. But serial contrarian and Gears of War guy Cliff Bleszinski has come out in defense of blocking used games, something the Xbox One does. And to think we called him hot.

He said:
Quote:
You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing. The numbers do NOT work people.

The visual fidelity and feature sets we expect from games now come with sky high costs. Assasins Creed games are made by thousands of devs.

Newsflash. This is why you’re seeing free to play and microtransactions everywhere. The disc based day one $60 model is crumbling.

Earlier saying:
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If you can afford high speed internet and you can’t get it where you live direct your rage at who is responsible for pipe blocking you.

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I’d bet Sony has some similar stuff up their sleeves they’re just playing on the internet outrage for free PR. You’re all being played!

Deal with it.


Edited, Jun 14th 2013 10:51am by Jophiel
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#199 Jun 14 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Apparently the forums are clamoring with Microsoft fanboys starting to justify why drm is okay. Ive never seen such a dedicated "crap all over me" group of bottom feeders.
Looking down on others for having an opinion is incredibly arrogant, something that is a significant problem already in the gaming community.


Microsoft is simply using a different approach to the same problem that Sony faces: how to turn a used game sale into a new game sale.

In 10 years, I doubt their policy will mean much since more and more will transition to digital downloads.
Sony simply chose a gradual approach rather than a forced one.


Quote:
You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing.
Never understood this one. If the industry cannot support games with such a huge budget, why not cut back? How are used games to blame for the exaggerated budgets for many games?

Edited, Jun 14th 2013 11:01am by xypin
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#200 Jun 14 2013 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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xypin wrote:
Looking down on others for having an opinion is incredibly arrogant, something that is a significant problem already in the gaming community.


Deal with it.
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#201 Jun 14 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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xypin wrote:
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You cannot have game and marketing budgets this high while also having used and rental games existing.
Never understood this one. If the industry cannot support games with such a huge budget, why not cut back? How are used games to blame for the exaggerated budgets for many games?

Used games aren't to blame for the budgets. Used games are to blame for the inability to pay off said budgets.

I'd assume the answer to "why not just cut back" was "The visual fidelity and feature sets we expect from games now come with sky high costs. Assassins Creed games are made by thousands of devs."
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