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#52 May 21 2013 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, sure. And, just like GMG, saying "You can trade in your games" isn't really a selling point. If I wanted to sell someone on trying GMG, I'd point to their 20-25% vouchers. I wouldn't even bother mentioning "And there's six games you can trade in for $1.20 each".

Likewise, if publishers beyond Microsoft itself don't want to sign on for trading in titles, it won't be much of a marketing point for the Xbox One.
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#53 May 21 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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I just don't understand how buying something no longer conveys ownership. If you're going to license games to customers we should paying a minute percentage of current full prices based on usage. If I play Bioshock: Not Nearly 10 hrs ( much less Infinite) then I should only be paying for 10 hours of entertainment which sure as hell isn't worth $60...or maybe $75 once the next generation lands.

Edited, May 21st 2013 7:54pm by LebargeX
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#54 May 21 2013 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
I should only be paying for 10 hours of entertainment which sure as hell isn't worth $60

Find a way to quantify the per hour value of entertainment that everyone agrees on and get back to us.
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#55 May 21 2013 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
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It's why I don't use prostitutes... no matter how enjoyable that was, it still only lasted a couple minutes.
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#56 May 21 2013 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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TirithRR wrote:
It's why I don't use prostitutes... no matter how enjoyable that was, it still only lasted a couple minutes.


I wouldn't blame the prostitute for that.
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#57 May 21 2013 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Iamadam wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
It's why I don't use prostitutes... no matter how enjoyable that was, it still only lasted a couple minutes.


I wouldn't blame the prostitute for that.


Isnt it easier to just blame Joph for everything though? :P



Liberal jokes are hard :s
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#58 May 21 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
Iamadam wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
It's why I don't use prostitutes... no matter how enjoyable that was, it still only lasted a couple minutes.


I wouldn't blame the prostitute for that.


Isnt it easier to just blame Joph for everything though? :P



Liberal jokes are hard :s


"Sorry baby... it's just... this guy on the internet. He's so... Liberal."
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#59 May 21 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
I should only be paying for 10 hours of entertainment which sure as hell isn't worth $60

Find a way to quantify the per hour value of entertainment that everyone agrees on and get back to us.


Well that's very easy. Netflix is $8 a month and Gamefly is about $18. If MS wants to turn their console into a game licensing/movie streaming service then I guess you could split the difference and say $13 for the basic services. Heck you could even go crazy and add them together and charge $26 a month to get access to top tier titles. With DLC and in game purchases all the rage right now buying games like a serial subscription is probably next.
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#60 May 21 2013 at 9:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
Well that's very easy. Netflix is $8 a month and Gamefly is about $18.

So get all your stuff through them. Problem solved! Smiley: thumbsup
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#61 May 21 2013 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Well that's very easy. Netflix is $8 a month and Gamefly is about $18.

So get all your stuff through them. Problem solved! Smiley: thumbsup


Yeah pretty much lol
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#62 May 21 2013 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
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Iamadam wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
Iamadam wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
It's why I don't use prostitutes... no matter how enjoyable that was, it still only lasted a couple minutes.


I wouldn't blame the prostitute for that.


Isnt it easier to just blame Joph for everything though? :P



Liberal jokes are hard :s



"Sorry baby... it's just... this guy on the internet. He's so... Liberal."


My point exactly, about the jokes being hard. He was saying dont blame the prostitute (aka Wh0re), and people say joph is so Liberal. So i associated Liberal whore with Joph. Then you someone said dont blame the prostitute (Wh0re) and I went But its easier to blame the Liberal wh0re (Prostitute) who is Joph.

Hence why I said its easier should blame Joph, the liberal prostitute, for everything.

Told you it was hard to do the joke. Mainly because my head associates things in weird ways.


You assumed you would tell the prostitute it was Jophs fault you were quick.When i ment to imply Joph is a supposed liberal wh0re(prostitute) and its alwasy his fault.

You know what they say about jokes you have to explain, i failed hard, keep the downrates coming.

(this also explains why my posts usually are so ramble-y because my mind jumps from subject to subject by association in my head, and I just keep typing like a noob.)

(Edit: also I dont think the wh0re word should be used in polite conversation, so i had to sit here and force myself to type this all out)


Edited, May 21st 2013 11:25pm by BeanX
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#63 May 21 2013 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
Either way with this BS. I only got a 360 way long ago to play XI. And started buying games for it solely becuase I didn't own a ps3. Now that I own Both and PS3 has humbled itself to me. If do enter this new standard(Since I don't compare the Wii to xbox or ps anymore. Mines well be in it's own category) It will definitely be with the ps4. Microsoft has completely turned me off with how they handled Live, and killed a certain series with their bullsh*t money grabbing and other stories of their bullsh*t money grabbing.

I usually don't like making all the decision without knowing more facts. But this one was made before they even walked down the run way for me.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 12:23am by Laxedrane
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#64 May 21 2013 at 10:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Spoonless wrote:
Turin wrote:
The required Kinect is enough for me to say that I won't be buying this system. I don't particularly care for the idea of MS having a internet connected camera and microphone in my living room. Sure, I could cover the lens or hide the thing in a corner, but just the fact that MS has the balls to pull a stunt like that is enough to keep me as far away from the thing as possible. Paying MS a fee to play used games didn't help their cause much either, but that's a minor complaint compared to the Kinect crap.

Well it's quite possible that you don't have to connect the Kinect.


Except that it is.
Quote:
Xbox UK marketing director Harvey Eagle explained:

Kinect does require to be connected to Xbox One in all cases, yes.

We use the living room almost as a moniker - that's where we assume the best screen is in the house. But if you like to play in any other room in the house, the Xbox One will deliver the same quality of experience whatever the environment.

#65 May 21 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
Turin wrote:
The required Kinect is enough for me to say that I won't be buying this system. I don't particularly care for the idea of MS having a internet connected camera and microphone in my living room. Sure, I could cover the lens or hide the thing in a corner, but just the fact that MS has the balls to pull a stunt like that is enough to keep me as far away from the thing as possible. Paying MS a fee to play used games didn't help their cause much either, but that's a minor complaint compared to the Kinect crap.

Well it's quite possible that you don't have to connect the Kinect.


Except that it is.
Quote:
Xbox UK marketing director Harvey Eagle explained:

Kinect does require to be connected to Xbox One in all cases, yes.

We use the living room almost as a moniker - that's where we assume the best screen is in the house. But if you like to play in any other room in the house, the Xbox One will deliver the same quality of experience whatever the environment.



First commercial for the Xbox One would be hilarious if it showed a the kinect interacting with the family with This song playing in the background.

At the end it says Microsoft Xbox One "We'll be watching you"

Edited, May 21st 2013 11:29pm by BeanX
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#66 May 21 2013 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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I seriously need to stop conversing with BeanX.
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#67 May 21 2013 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
I just don't understand how buying something no longer conveys ownership.

Edited, May 21st 2013 7:54pm by LebargeX


When it comes to movies/music/games, it's never conveyed ownership. What you're buying is a use license and the disc is a means of delivery. There's the Fair Use and First Sale argument, but that becomes difficult to regulate.


As far as the used game market, I don't know why anyone's surprised that developers and publishers want it dead. From their point of view it's along the same lines as piracy, only worse. When someone buys a used game the developer never sees a penny of that money, and a potential customer is gone.


I didn't have an issue with the announcement. I didn't like how they only pushed the EA stuff, but I was happy to hear about the new IPs. I think the problem a lot of people are having is that the Xbox is no longer a dedicated gaming console. It's meant to be a family room entertainment system, which most people knew about who had been following it. So them leading with the Kinect stuff was not only unsurprising, but expected. I'm also a big fan of the cable box integration (as long as it has DVR capabilities) as well as everything else. What would be great is if they also made it pass-through. I have 2 HDMI switches attached to my TV, that's ridiculous. They're expensive, they don't work properly, and the vast majority of them downgrade the signal to 720. If the Xbox One is trying to eliminate that problem and become the primary device attached to my TV, I'm all for it.
#68 May 22 2013 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Not actually interested in any of the next gen stuff atm. Honestly how much better can the system produce, when it is still confined to 1080 max resolution, I also didn't notice ig Xbox announced that this would be 3D TV capable???

I think Id rather spend my money on an occulus rift than a minor upgrade in terms of graphics. Last time I bought a game for graphics I wasted my cash.
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#69 May 22 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kotaku kind of sums up my feelings well.

Also, another holy crap quote:

Quote:
It didn't help that many of the other key announcements fell flat. TV integration is...OK, I guess, if you're in America, but most people on this planet are not, and as of now, the US is the only place the feature is going to work.


Also, it seems the only way to turn Kinect off is to actually remove the device from a power source. Even if you turn the machine off, Kinect is still functioning, so you can use the voice activation stuff. And this doesn't seem to be optional.

And apparently Microsoft execs are shocked by the bad response to the announcements. I mean, have they been doing ANY marketing research over the past few months, when rumors of these features were coming out? Public sentiment was very clear.
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#70 May 22 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I didn't realize you had to connect the Kinect, so I guess they're kind of making my decision for me. I really wanted this to come down to what exclusives were going to be on Xbox versus PS4, but it may not even end up mattering.

I don't have much of a problem with their handling of used games, probably because I'm used to there being no such thing in PC gaming. I do think that if they're going to destroy the used game market for their system, they absolutely have to adjust their price drops and sales on their direct distribution system. Of course, that won't happen because they'll likely think they can continue to get $60/game six months after its release (or is the price of new games going up, too?). People aren't going to just start paying full release price for every game they want to play; they'll just stop buying a large percentage of games they would have bought used, unless they can get those games for a reasonable price.



This video probably turns me off a bit more instead of alleviating issues I might have.

I don't have a problem with paying for Xbox Live, and won't until Sony's free service rivals it as far as network quality goes. And perhaps with the PS4, it will do so. Having experienced extensive multiplayer on both the PS3 and 360, my personal experience has been that the games played over Live have had less network issues than the ones on PSN. That said, there's no reason that you should have to pay for a Gold membership to access things like your Netflix account; that should be included with the free membership. I think that they could also do something like including better free Gold access with new games. Include a full month with every new game you buy.

I've usually been a Sony-first person, since most of the JRPG I like to play come out on PS and not Xbox, but I did greatly enjoy the original Xbox, and have enjoyed the 360. I'm really interested to see how this all plays out. They'll certainly still sell a ton of consoles.
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#71 May 22 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

I get the idea of trying to make it the core of a living room, serving as the primary media device. And that's all well and good.

But I just can't see your average consumer wanting kinect. Maybe that's me misreading the situation, but it just sounds... off to me. I mean, one thing they keep talking about is how you can just say "xbox on" and it'll be good to go. That's nice... except that there's plenty of reasons you would use xbox on when you didn't want it to turn on. For instance, "Is the xbox on?", "Don't leave the xbox on", "Don't turn that xbox on until after you've done your homework", etc.

Ditto for xbox off. Some kid's mom walks in and says "Don't you think it's time your turned the xbox off?" Or your kid sister just LOVES that she can control it with her voice, so she does so. Whenever she can. Even if you're in the middle of a COD deathmatch.

I mean, I can't possibly be the only one with a toddler in the house who would absolutely do this every chance she got... And with the rate she picks up new technology, there'd be no chance in hell she wouldn't know how to do it after the device had been in the house for a few days.

And that doesn't account for other things, like "I WANT TO WATCH CAILLOU!" Is "watch ____" going to be a command? Because that would be REALLY annoying.

I dunno, I just don't feel like we're at a point where technology is actually far enough to be implemented this way. Until the system can actually log voice profiles for complex command structures, and be able to register context, I don't really want an omnipresent voice command system. One you turn off and on? Sure. One that's listening to every word you utter, looking for strings of keywords? HA, no.
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#72 May 22 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
But I just can't see your average consumer wanting kinect. Maybe that's me misreading the situation, but it just sounds... off to me. I mean, one thing they keep talking about is how you can just say "xbox on" and it'll be good to go. That's nice... except that there's plenty of reasons you would use xbox on when you didn't want it to turn on. For instance, "Is the xbox on?", "Don't leave the xbox on", "Don't turn that xbox on until after you've done your homework", etc.

Ditto for xbox off. Some kid's mom walks in and says "Don't you think it's time your turned the xbox off?" Or your kid sister just LOVES that she can control it with her voice, so she does so. Whenever she can. Even if you're in the middle of a COD deathmatch.

I mean, I can't possibly be the only one with a toddler in the house who would absolutely do this every chance she got... And with the rate she picks up new technology, there'd be no chance in hell she wouldn't know how to do it after the device had been in the house for a few days.

And that doesn't account for other things, like "I WANT TO WATCH CAILLOU!" Is "watch ____" going to be a command? Because that would be REALLY annoying.
Maybe your experience with Windows Speech Recognition (WSR) has been different than my own, but that is usually not how voice commands work.

If you have a command such as "xbox on", then it looks for that phrase and that phrase only. When WSR starts to hear speech, it then constructs the phrase/sentence that it picks up. As long as you keep speaking, it continues to build up and does not perform any other action (there may be some limit, but it was easily picking up full length sentences when I played around with it). Once you finish speaking, that entire list of words becomes the command phrase, not just a small portion within. An action is performed if that entire phrase matches a command.

Toddlers could be a problem, but only because I expect they would pick up on you saying "xbox on" and "xbox off" then start using it because it sounds funny, unaware of what it actually does. That would be my guess, anyway. Usually the WSR works around your accent and speech patterns, so it might not pick up on the toddler because of that either, but I'd be less certain of that part.


Finally, system voice commands ("xbox on", "xbox off", "watch Dr. Who", etc.), might end up being disabled while playing a game or possibly settings to turn those particular ones off. Given the disaster of the recent announcement, I have my doubts, but it would be something I would think is a reasonable approach.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 8:58am by xypin
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#73 May 22 2013 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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xypin wrote:
Toddlers could be a problem, but only because I expect they would pick up on you saying "xbox on" and "xbox off" then start using it because it sounds funny, unaware of what it actually does.

No, they'll do it because they know exactly what it does and turning things on and off over and over again is hilarious when you're 30 months old.
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#74 May 22 2013 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

I get the idea of trying to make it the core of a living room, serving as the primary media device. And that's all well and good.

But I just can't see your average consumer wanting kinect. Maybe that's me misreading the situation, but it just sounds... off to me. I mean, one thing they keep talking about is how you can just say "xbox on" and it'll be good to go. That's nice... except that there's plenty of reasons you would use xbox on when you didn't want it to turn on. For instance, "Is the xbox on?", "Don't leave the xbox on", "Don't turn that xbox on until after you've done your homework", etc.

Ditto for xbox off. Some kid's mom walks in and says "Don't you think it's time your turned the xbox off?" Or your kid sister just LOVES that she can control it with her voice, so she does so. Whenever she can. Even if you're in the middle of a COD deathmatch.

I mean, I can't possibly be the only one with a toddler in the house who would absolutely do this every chance she got... And with the rate she picks up new technology, there'd be no chance in hell she wouldn't know how to do it after the device had been in the house for a few days.

And that doesn't account for other things, like "I WANT TO WATCH CAILLOU!" Is "watch ____" going to be a command? Because that would be REALLY annoying.

I dunno, I just don't feel like we're at a point where technology is actually far enough to be implemented this way. Until the system can actually log voice profiles for complex command structures, and be able to register context, I don't really want an omnipresent voice command system. One you turn off and on? Sure. One that's listening to every word you utter, looking for strings of keywords? HA, no.



Correct me if I am wrong. But aren't a lot of higher end TVs now integrating the things kinnect does for tv?

I don't know how well those TVs are selling for but there being made and advertise for. There is a market for it. I don't know how big that market is but there is a market for it outside of games.
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#75 May 22 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
No, they'll do it because they know exactly what it does and turning things on and off over and over again is hilarious when you're 30 months old.
Pretty funny when you're 30 years old, too.
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#76 May 22 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure there's a market for it, but I'm not convinced it's a market that meaningfully overlaps with the gaming population. At least not when we're talking about the fact that you can't turn the damn feature off (at least as of right now).

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft implements a big overhaul to give a lot more control to their users regarding how omnipresent the kinect system is. It would be a horrible decision not to.

[EDIT]

If PS4's promises of an indie self-publishing system are true, THAT could definitely be a really big hurdle for Microsoft to overcome, which they won't do if they don't try and implement more features that gamers care about.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 10:20am by idiggory
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#77 May 22 2013 at 8:41 AM Rating: Good
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Can confirm gaming with kinect voice commands with children around sucks. Madden 13 let you voice activate almost every possible pre-snap call there is. I had to turn it off cuz my kids' random shouting would call blitzes and line shifts.

Come to think of it, Skyrim would have been pretty funny on xbox since my 2yo daughter goes fus ro dah crazy while im playing that game. Smiley: lol

Edited, May 22nd 2013 7:42am by KTurner
#78 May 22 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Sony, the company that tries to sue anyone who looks at their hardware in a manner they don't agree with, is going to open their hardware up enough to become the primary indie platform. Yea, that'll happen.

idiggory wrote:
I'm sure there's a market for it, but I'm not convinced it's a market that meaningfully overlaps with the gaming population.


You're looking at it the wrong way. This isn't targeted to the core gamer, it's targeted towards the average family while still maintaining it's core gaming capabilities. This is your home theater pc, cable box, Blu-Ray player, could storage media center, and gaming system.
#79 May 22 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:

I don't have much of a problem with their handling of used games, probably because I'm used to there being no such thing in PC gaming. I do think that if they're going to destroy the used game market for their system, they absolutely have to adjust their price drops and sales on their direct distribution system. Of course, that won't happen because they'll likely think they can continue to get $60/game six months after its release (or is the price of new games going up, too?). People aren't going to just start paying full release price for every game they want to play; they'll just stop buying a large percentage of games they would have bought used, unless they can get those games for a reasonable price.


I think this is what they are mistaking. Like you said they see the PC market and think "Oh well people dont mind it there" the reason we dont mind it is because a lot of use never pay retail. I wanted to play Farcry 3 Blood Dragon, but I wouldnt even pay 14.99 for it. I bought a code for 4.50 the other day. If MS is going to control the used game portions with the backing from the game companies, do you think the game companies dont have a say at what MS will be pricing. Nope. I expect to see used games way higher priced because companies only want their money and dont worry about the value to the costumer. Look at EA, they copy pasta Fif1 12 changed the logo to 13 on the vita and sold the exact same game as a newer version, they dont care.

Spoonless wrote:

I don't have a problem with paying for Xbox Live, and won't until Sony's free service rivals it as far as network quality goes. And perhaps with the PS4, it will do so. Having experienced extensive multiplayer on both the PS3 and 360, my personal experience has been that the games played over Live have had less network issues than the ones on PSN. That said, there's no reason that you should have to pay for a Gold membership to access things like your Netflix account; that should be included with the free membership. I think that they could also do something like including better free Gold access with new games. Include a full month with every new game you buy.

I've usually been a Sony-first person, since most of the JRPG I like to play come out on PS and not Xbox, but I did greatly enjoy the original Xbox, and have enjoyed the 360. I'm really interested to see how this all plays out. They'll certainly still sell a ton of consoles.


I dont understand this mentality, your being charged to use the internet you already pay for. MS charges to "use their infrastucture" Sony doesnt. Sony puts that on the shoulder of the developers I believe, so its their job to make sure the netcode is good, not Sonys, they just provide the platform. As for the less network issues on Live I could back you up on this except Live is stupid easy to mess with. One of my friend used to play Halo 3 ranked a lot, one night one of his friends brought over his laptop and ran a packet sniffer to target the Xbox live code and insert intentional errors forcing the other side to hang and lag. I dont know exactly how it worked but they did it all night and won every game.

As I mentioned before PS+ IMHO is a better service than Xbox live(Gold) I mean in a year and a lahf ive spend 75 dollars. and received a TON of free games including 6 retail vita games if i pick up that system for free. Sony is putting value into the system while MS is putting ads to make more money.

I know I blam MS pretty hard, but the Xbox gold thing really gets me, because IMHO it preys on peoples niavity. Like the people with cable internet but still pay for AOL because thats how you connect to the internet is though AOL. My girlfriends mother was like this until I sat her down and explained it. She dropped AOL like a bad habit.

Anyway if you were looking at PSN Vs XboxLive you would have expected PSn to be the one to introduce Ads to offset its free nature, but instead the paid service is the one that has them.MS is slowly closing that gap to EA territory, they had an extremely popular console last cycle and now they think they're sh*t dont stink and they will be able to keep pushing. Kind of like Sony after the PS3, How did that turn out for them?

Sony this upcoming cycle is learning from their mistakes with the PS3 because they were headstrong, and thought they could do no wrong after the PS2. Atm I feel Xbox is headed in the same direction, because their system was he top hardcore unit last cycle that this cycle they can do what they want and consumers will eat it out of their hands.

Idk MS is lucky Xbox is still a thing honestly, If Halo didnt take off the original Xbox was dead in the water, They had the same games and a more powerful system than the PS2 and even had the basic network the PS2 didnt. But for the longest time the system struggled to find a base, they had almost no RPGs, their exclusives werent that great, or were overhyped and under delivered. Until halo 1 came out and became THE console lan party game, sales of the system were usually only to people into racing or sports games. PS2 t the time had the market with tons of games in every genre to fit many tastes. Its not the hardware that moves a system its the software (only applies to consoles)
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#80 May 22 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm sure there's a market for it, but I'm not convinced it's a market that meaningfully overlaps with the gaming population. At least not when we're talking about the fact that you can't turn the damn feature off (at least as of right now).

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft implements a big overhaul to give a lot more control to their users regarding how omnipresent the kinect system is. It would be a horrible decision not to.


Not that I am particularly thrilled with the news here myself just playing devil advocate here.

But isn't that kind of the point of their marketing strategy. To appeal to more then just gamers?

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#81 May 22 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Sony, the company that tries to sue anyone who looks at their hardware in a manner they don't agree with, is going to open their hardware up enough to become the primary indie platform. Yea, that'll happen.

idiggory wrote:
I'm sure there's a market for it, but I'm not convinced it's a market that meaningfully overlaps with the gaming population.


You're looking at it the wrong way. This isn't targeted to the core gamer, it's targeted towards the average family while still maintaining it's core gaming capabilities. This is your home theater pc, cable box, Blu-Ray player, could storage media center, and gaming system.


Uhm just because Sony had the most press for it, every other company has done it. Apple tried it til the FCC ruled that it was ok to unlock a phone. Xbox has went after hacking sites, or worse ignored the high amount of hacking and selling of Xbox accounts saying its not their problem. I dont agree its ok what Sony did in the situation, BUT you need to remember piracy was rampant on the PSP and turned it into a dead system most of the world.

Previous systems had to be modded to be hacked, and modding was already illegal in most of the world. Also wasnt easy and you needed to find the parts then solder them in. The harder something is to do the less people waste time trying to do it. But because this new way was a software mod anyone with a USB jumpstick could open the entire system to piracy. I mean at first Sony was happy to include Linux capability on their system, the only reasons they really got rid of it was hacking scares because of it and honestly I dont think many people ever used it.

Actually if you look at my last post Sony also has been pompous and arrogant because their domination last cycle (PS2) They let it get to them and tried pushing where THEY wanted and not were WE wanted. Sony from the PS1/2 Era was a much different beast, wanna know why there is so many games for both systems, because they let everyone and their mother have a Developer Kit from EA to garage start ups. It wasnt until the PS3 that they began to restrict access to it, exactly like Nintendo did with the 64. They suddenly put huge pricetags on Kits/licenses pushing out the small guys that helped build them.

Sony has been losing money the last 5? years or so, and they know that if they keep going they way hey have been its going to kill the brand. I think they know, at least for the PS4, that catering to the consumer and indie is going to be the way to go.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 10:19am by BeanX
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#82 May 22 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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So now that we know that the kinect is always on watching the room a and listening before we find out the government can tap into it and listen or can be hacked like laptop webcams (RAT Hacks). Or that MS themselves can access it at anytime and watch you. I mean Im not a conspiracy theorist by any means (Not saying Microsoft is controlled by aliens, but they're aliens) but a camera/mic that cant be turned off and is forced to be connected to the net (Even if for a shot time a day)

No one else has a little concern about that?


Edit: Im not trying to scare anyone or rumor monger, its a valid concern. When people in the thread started talking about it being forced to be on all times its the first thing I thought.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 10:14am by BeanX
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#83 May 22 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Raolan wrote:
Sony, the company that tries to sue anyone who looks at their hardware in a manner they don't agree with, is going to open their hardware up enough to become the primary indie platform. Yea, that'll happen.


Ostensibly, they've already opened it. They cut development costs for the Vita, and they've lowered barriers for PSN publishing. Early return from indies seems pretty good.

What games come of it, we'll see. And I don't think there's any reason to think they'll "become the primary indie platform" - I doubt they even hold out that kind of hope. But they've already made moves.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 11:19am by Eske
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#84 May 22 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
So now that we know that the kinect is always on watching the room a and listening before we find out the government can tap into it and listen or can be hacked like laptop webcams (RAT Hacks). Or that MS themselves can access it at anytime and watch you.
[...]
No one else has a little concern about that?

I assume it's programmed to listen for the sound of fapping and then activate.

I have "concern" about it in that I'm not buying one anyway but agree that it sounds sketchy. I have zero confidence in MS to develop security that someone else isn't going to hack and distribute some "Spy on anyone by their Xbox ID" software.
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#85 May 22 2013 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
So now that we know that the kinect is always on watching the room a and listening before we find out the government can tap into it and listen or can be hacked like laptop webcams (RAT Hacks). Or that MS themselves can access it at anytime and watch you.
[...]
No one else has a little concern about that?

I assume it's programmed to listen for the sound of fapping and then activate.

I have "concern" about it in that I'm not buying one anyway but agree that it sounds sketchy. I have zero confidence in MS to develop security that someone else isn't going to hack and distribute some "Spy on anyone by their Xbox ID" software.



That awkward moment when your Kinect recognizes you have a boner and suggests porn sites.
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#86 May 22 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
I dont understand this mentality, your being charged to use the internet you already pay for. MS charges to "use their infrastucture" Sony doesnt. Sony puts that on the shoulder of the developers I believe, so its their job to make sure the netcode is good, not Sonys, they just provide the platform.
I enjoy my Xbox enough that it's worth paying $5/month to play its games online. Would I like it to be free? Sure. But it's still something I decided was worth it to me to pay for. If I enjoy WoW, I'll pay $15/month or whatever to play it. There's no free service to play your Xbox games online, so I don't see how it's preying on naivety, like with your AOL example.
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#87 May 22 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
That awkward moment when your Kinect recognizes you have a boner and suggests Mass Effect fan-porn sites.

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#88 May 22 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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#89 May 22 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
I dont understand this mentality, your being charged to use the internet you already pay for. MS charges to "use their infrastucture" Sony doesnt. Sony puts that on the shoulder of the developers I believe, so its their job to make sure the netcode is good, not Sonys, they just provide the platform.
I enjoy my Xbox enough that it's worth paying $5/month to play its games online. Would I like it to be free? Sure. But it's still something I decided was worth it to me to pay for. If I enjoy WoW, I'll pay $15/month or whatever to play it. There's no free service to play your Xbox games online, so I don't see how it's preying on naivety, like with your AOL example.


Besides the obvious "anything is worth whatever somebody will pay for it" reply, how is it worth it? You pay (most likely overpay) for your internet already which is the brunt of the infrastructure, you pay for the games that have multiplayer as an intended game mode, and then you still have to pay 5 bucks a month to MS to play it?

Do you get anything else from XBL gold? You get to watch netflix which you already pay for too.
#90 May 22 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
I watched like 30 seconds of this hype train on Spike. But it felt like sitting through a work a meeting so I turned it back off. I've had to go to these in Redmond in person before for new versions of Exchange or SharePoint. They do sometimes have good catering though. Walking up to a giant tray of 100s of slices of bacon...

Think I'll make some bacon now.
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#91 May 22 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
I dont understand this mentality, your being charged to use the internet you already pay for. MS charges to "use their infrastucture" Sony doesnt. Sony puts that on the shoulder of the developers I believe, so its their job to make sure the netcode is good, not Sonys, they just provide the platform.
I enjoy my Xbox enough that it's worth paying $5/month to play its games online. Would I like it to be free? Sure. But it's still something I decided was worth it to me to pay for. If I enjoy WoW, I'll pay $15/month or whatever to play it. There's no free service to play your Xbox games online, so I don't see how it's preying on naivety, like with your AOL example.



Because How many familys you think knew Xbox couldnt play games online without a fee when buying it for their children. When i was working as a Gamestop managers, other than RRoD at least 2 times a day I would get parents bitching about it, so much to the point that we had to inform everyone buying 360s as presents of the hidden charge.

I understand how you're justifying it to yourself. But you dont really get a choice, you either pay it or dont play online, simple as that. You pay for WoW because you like that game and see the value in paying the sub. But out of the 3 systems Nintendo and PS dont charge to be online, and they also dont toss ads on your paid service. Thats the big tipping point for me. I can understand having cross game chatting etc and having to pay for that service, but when you toss ads into something I pay for (I do NOT have cable) I drop you like a bad habit. Hulu plus did this to me on a free trial, I was going to pay for it so I could watch some anime without ads, yet still had ads I unsubbed less than an hour later.

If it was free and had ad's great dont mind. Also you can play WoW without paying (you just cant access end game).

Xbox Live sub costs breaks down to peer pressure + greed plain an simple, they dont give you anything that you cant get elsewhere and barely add any value to the service. Its there because Little jimmy cant play with his friends without paying it (Peer Pressure) and because MS can get away with it.

I choose to pay for PS+ not because Im forced to to play my games, I already bought, on my internet, I already pay for, but because It add value to my experience on that system. It boils down to the whole argument of companies cutting out parts of services/games to sell you later ala carte to put more money in their pockets

Edit: Do you think your enjoyment would be less without Xbox Gold, If so they are forcing you to pay, If not why pay for it at all? The whole arguement reminds me of this scene

Edited, May 22nd 2013 11:07am by BeanX
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#92 May 22 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
That awkward moment when your Kinect recognizes you have a boner and suggests Mass Effect fan-porn sites Errect.




Edited, May 22nd 2013 11:18am by BeanX
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#93 May 22 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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KTurner wrote:
Can confirm gaming with kinect voice commands with children around sucks. Madden 13 let you voice activate almost every possible pre-snap call there is. I had to turn it off cuz my kids' random shouting would call blitzes and line shifts.

Come to think of it, Skyrim would have been pretty funny on xbox since my 2yo daughter goes fus ro dah crazy while im playing that game. Smiley: lol

Edited, May 22nd 2013 7:42am by KTurner


There are plenty of videos online of friends actively trolling their friends via Kinect.

Raolan wrote:
Sony, the company that tries to sue anyone who looks at their hardware in a manner they don't agree with, is going to open their hardware up enough to become the primary indie platform. Yea, that'll happen.

idiggory wrote:
I'm sure there's a market for it, but I'm not convinced it's a market that meaningfully overlaps with the gaming population.


You're looking at it the wrong way. This isn't targeted to the core gamer, it's targeted towards the average family while still maintaining it's core gaming capabilities. This is your home theater pc, cable box, Blu-Ray player, could storage media center, and gaming system.


I didn't say otherwise. I wasn't commenting on the potential, overall success of the device, I was just commenting on it relative to gamers.

Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'm sure there's a market for it, but I'm not convinced it's a market that meaningfully overlaps with the gaming population. At least not when we're talking about the fact that you can't turn the damn feature off (at least as of right now).

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft implements a big overhaul to give a lot more control to their users regarding how omnipresent the kinect system is. It would be a horrible decision not to.


Not that I am particularly thrilled with the news here myself just playing devil advocate here.

But isn't that kind of the point of their marketing strategy. To appeal to more then just gamers?



Yes, but losing your core demographic in the process rarely works out well for companies. An expanding demographic and marketing strategy is great. Expanding your demographic and marketing strategy by moving to entirely new groups is a really poor one.

For one, it's a huge gamble. You're moving from a known quantity to an unknown one. The 360 was a huge success in the gaming market. Barring some extreme risk factors with the demographic (which I don't see here), it's not smart to just drop that.

That's because modern consumers have a VERY strong sense of brand loyalty, which translates to a very strong sense of brand betrayal. Central to brand loyalty is the notion of trust - your primary consumer needs to trust that you actually do have their best interest at heart. It's crazy, but it's essentially the center of modern marketing strategies. You NEVER want your audience to remember that your bottom line is a profit motive.

A perception that you're screwing them, or abandoning them, or don't care about them, is one of the best ways to screw yourself out of your entire audience.

That can be fine, when you have a new audience lined up. If there was already an xbox in every home, for the purpose of a multimedia, then this would be a different conversation. But there isn't, because everyone who has an xbox 360 has one for gaming, primarily.

If you want to transition your brand, then transition it. You DON'T do that by abandoning your core demographic. You do it by creating a device your core demographic desperately wants (for all the things important to them), and then add a lot of features other groups want. But your first goal is to SELL THE DEVICE. Because profits and market momentum fund development and marketing to expand into those new areas.

The smartest move would have been to get every gamer possible excited to own this, AND include the cool new features that weren't gaming-centric. Then very actively transition the device and its marketing, over its lifespan, into one that's awesome for anyone with a TV. The NEXT device then launches into an audience receptive to all those other features.
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#94 May 22 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
I dont understand this mentality, your being charged to use the internet you already pay for. MS charges to "use their infrastucture" Sony doesnt. Sony puts that on the shoulder of the developers I believe, so its their job to make sure the netcode is good, not Sonys, they just provide the platform.
I enjoy my Xbox enough that it's worth paying $5/month to play its games online. Would I like it to be free? Sure. But it's still something I decided was worth it to me to pay for. If I enjoy WoW, I'll pay $15/month or whatever to play it. There's no free service to play your Xbox games online, so I don't see how it's preying on naivety, like with your AOL example.



Because How many familys you think knew Xbox couldnt play games online without a fee when buying it for their children. When i was working as a Gamestop managers, other than RRoD at least 2 times a day I would get parents bitching about it, so much to the point that we had to inform everyone buying 360s as presents of the hidden charge.

I understand how you're justifying it to yourself. But you dont really get a choice, you either pay it or dont play online, simple as that. You pay for WoW because you like that game and see the value in paying the sub. But out of the 3 systems Nintendo and PS dont charge to be online, and they also dont toss ads on your paid service. Thats the big tipping point for me. I can understand having cross game chatting etc and having to pay for that service, but when you toss ads into something I pay for (I do NOT have cable) I drop you like a bad habit. Hulu plus did this to me on a free trial, I was going to pay for it so I could watch some anime without ads, yet still had ads I unsubbed less than an hour later.

If it was free and had ad's great dont mind. Also you can play WoW without paying (you just cant access end game).

Xbox Live sub costs breaks down to peer pressure + greed plain an simple, they dont give you anything that you cant get elsewhere and barely add any value to the service. Its there because Little jimmy cant play with his friends without paying it (Peer Pressure) and because MS can get away with it.

I choose to pay for PS+ not because Im forced to to play my games, I already bought, on my internet, I already pay for, but because It add value to my experience on that system. It boils down to the whole argument of companies cutting out parts of services/games to sell you later ala carte to put more money in their pockets

Edit: Do you think your enjoyment would be less without Xbox Gold, If so they are forcing you to pay, If not why pay for it at all? The whole arguement reminds me of this scene

Edited, May 22nd 2013 11:07am by BeanX



Not to mention the fact it doesn't have built in wireless like every other system from that generation. The wireless unit I believe was close to 100 bucks at the time it was released.(Now it's less)

Also, I agree with most of your post but the whole "I paid for the internet thing" doesn't fly for me completely when talking about games. Netflix, internet browser, and anything otherwise free for computers should be free on the xbox. But it's not an uncommon pratice for certain games to charge for being able to get online. Especially anything with MMO in front of it. Your internet company does not pay for the servers these games are run on. That's not included in their offer to you.
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#95 May 22 2013 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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The newer 360's do have a built in wi-fi, but you're right; it did take far too long to implement.
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I understand how you're justifying it to yourself. But you dont really get a choice, you either pay it or dont play online, simple as that.
Isn't that your choice? If you buy an Xbox and intend to play games online, you pay the $60/year. You can still play the single-player components of your games without Gold. If you want to play games online but don't want to pay extra for the service, than the Xbox isn't the system for you. It's not like they're not upfront about this.
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#96 May 22 2013 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
Not to mention the fact it doesn't have built in wireless like every other system from that generation. The wireless unit I believe was close to 100 bucks at the time it was released.(Now it's less)


To be fair, PS3 wireless built in is sh*t (at least, my old fat 80GB PS3). I would love to pay 100 dollars right now and upgrade my PS3 to work as fast as my 360 does on my wireless home network.
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#97 May 22 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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This announcement served its purpose. It let the most casual of followes know that there's a new Xbox coming out, and that it will have the highly popular CoD and EA Sports games. Most serious console gamers are not going to base their decision purely on the initial presser. This announcement wasn't for them. That's what E3 is for. This was for the general media and the large demographic of Xbox users who don't regularly follow video game news.


This. My manager, who as far as I know doesn't even own a video game system of any kind, mentioned it yesterday. So did another non-gaming coworker.

I rolled my eyes both times. The only thing this new generation does for me is raise my hopes of getting a cheap used PS3 so that I can play the exclusives, and raising the bar so things look/handle better ported to my PC. I might consider the PS4 if it is backwards compatible, but otherwise meh. Really especially in the first 2 years of a console where there are no interesting games to speak of.
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#98 May 22 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:

To be fair, PS3 wireless built in is sh*t (at least, my old fat 80GB PS3).


Mine is too, what's up with that?
#99 May 22 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I watched the reveal trailer which apparently was released yesterday and it just seemed like 90% of it was showing what the console looks like. I thought they ditched the plan to ban used games on the system about a month or two ago?

One of the things I am curious about is the watching TV. Does this mean we plug our cable into the Xbox and completely remove the need for having our $10 a month DVR box from the cable company? Because that in itself would be an incentive to purchase it. Been nice if they had shown some games, talked about backward compatibility, gave some info on the specs, etc. Didn't really need to watch a minute and a half of video showing what the box looks like...
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#100 May 22 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
KTurner wrote:
TirithRR wrote:

To be fair, PS3 wireless built in is sh*t (at least, my old fat 80GB PS3).


Mine is too, what's up with that?


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#101 May 22 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Apparently you still need your cable box. I don't know if the Xbox will have DVR abilities.
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